Thanks, Bill; that makes more sense. I wouldn't say I reacted out of emotion; I would say that I responded with what seemed the most normal way to me. She asked a question, and I gave my answer.

But I can see that I probably should have used it as an opportunity to listen, instead.

I would have thought I was listening because I answered the question, but I know that it takes more than that for my wife to truly feel listened to.

On the serious, if my wife were to ask me that question, the answering portion probably wouldn't come for like three days and I'm not kidding because there would be sooooo much I would want to know about her feelings before I could begin to answer it. Anywho, you're learning and Rome wasn't built in a day my friend........

Well, obviously I'm making no progress in welcoming and validating my wife's feelings in our conversations:

You:

"I'm sorry. I guess I haven't been very supported in the way you need.

I don't want to respond in a 'typical' way. I want to support you.

I love you.

Please tell me how you are feeling."

Thanks, Telly; those suggested words are very helpful.

I realized this morning that some of my thinking is being rewired. It's not there yet, but I can tell where it's going, and I'm looking forward to getting there.

One of the most devastating things to me in my marriage has been the feeling that I can't rely on my wife to keep agreements. So many things she agreed to she has not kept or has nearly immediately wanted to revisit and renegotiate. This has been extraordinarily hurtful to me.

My thinking is going from "My wife doesn't keep agreements because she is unreliable and untrustworthy" to "My wife hasn't kept our agreements in the past because she agreed to them reluctantly." There are a number of reasons for this which I won't go into now other than to say that it hasn't been solely because of love busters on my part, but that has certainly been an increasingly significant factor.

It certainly feels better to realize that it's not that my wife doesn't believe in commitment or know how to keep a commitment: it's that like most normal people she finds it difficult or impossible to keep an agreement made reluctantly.

Great progress Markos!

I'm totally with you on the mental re-wiring project.

Hi Markos!

Boy, I think you've hit the nail on the head with reasons why your wife may have difficulty sticking with things she "agreed" to. At least, if she is anything like ME--which it really sounds like she is.

Her job is to let her Yes be Yes and her No be No, which can be very hard... But your job is to make sure it is as safe as possible so that she doesn't feel pressured to acquiesce or ignore her own desires. (In my case, sometimes I just want my husband to be happy,and think that I can do what he wants [aka SACRIFICE], and sometimes I feel browbeaten into agreeing with him, just by the sheer force of his expressions of ideas.)

Anyway, I hope this is a helpful turning of thought for you.

:-)

Elizabeth

This article really impacted me:


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5055_qa.html

My wife has now read all of Love Busters, is starting His Needs, Her Needs, has become open and honest with me about some things I did not know about, and seems very motivated to pursue recovery with me.

I am the luckiest man on the face of the earth.

Yes you are

My wife is pretty scared this morning. I think she finally realizes that all of our problems stem from not being in love any more. I think she's scared we'll never be in love again.

Our next appointment with Steve Harley is scheduled for next week. Can't come a moment too soon, in my opinion.

Being scared means she has hope. It means she sees the goal and she's realizes how much she wants to get there.

I always feel scare when I see my husband moving towards me--I am afraid that we won't make it... And I want it SOOO MUCH!!!

You might want to keep reassuring her that you want to have a happy marriage with her. You want her to be happy and to feel safe and loved by you in every single way.

:-)

I am convinced men don't typically feel fear in quite the same way. They see the goal and often think "Okay, what do I need to get there?"

Women see the same goal, and if they've been disappointed a lot in the past, the feelings of excitement and hope mix together and form fear.

I know it's hard to understand, but I think it's actually a GOOD thing.

Wow; what a cool (and heartening) insight!


Yes; all my instincts say to respond with "Here's the path; it's right in front of us, and we just have to walk it. Isn't that encouraging?"

I'M NOT DOING THAT. Instincts haven't served me well in my marriage so far, so I'm not about to follow them now.

{Side note: yesterday I tried to list Dr. Harley's ten basic concepts from memory. I missed one: instincts and habits. When I found out what it was, I thought, "Oh, well, that one's really not that important." Then for the rest of the day, I started seeing why the instincts and habits concept is important.)


Knowing my Sweetheart the way I do, that makes a lot of sense.

Shoot. My wife says "I need you here," and here I am stuck at work.

We need real UA time, so bad...

Personally, for a family emergency, I'd leave the office.....

On your way home arrange for a sitter for the kids and be her Knight......

Me too!

Markos,


Respectfully, I don't mean to be out of place here and I am not trying to attack you, but I just read your wife's post & from where I sit - it's pretty clear why she's been acting in the ways you describe.

I know how she feels because I was her.

I am so curious as to why you never admitted to your history of AOs or admitted to physically abusing her. (Or have you? If I missed a post from you telling about this I sincerely apologize because I haven't read everything.)

I am happy for you that you both are using MB, but I don't understand why you skipped discussing such major issues. It makes me wonder if people who physically abuse their spouses are unaware of just how much damage it does. I am also wondering if my DH leaves this part of our story out when he discusses things with people he trusts. Do you feel it's not a big part of the chasm which has formed between you * your wife? Do people who do AO and abuse feel their spouse should just "get over it"? Do they feel that it will be forgotten if it is never talked about?

So many questions.

Markos:

let me give it to you straight: you grew up in your parent's household with their mannerisms. You have their genetics which recreate their mannerisms in a mini me. YOu are treating your W exactly like your parents treated you and themselves. And you are looking for the same responses your parents do. That is why you are fighting yourself, and can't see it, because its you.

Ok, so how do you stop fighting yourself? you have to get completely reprogrammed, and standing up to your parents for your wife is a number one start! Also, because they are you and you are them, observe them very closely, without comment, and observe their patterns. Disengage yourself from them and observe at a family gathering. If you can do this without interacting, you will notice some very bad habits which you have learned and are currently carrying. I thought my parents were great, then i observed, and then i noticed that my dad has little temper tantrums, and both of my parents talk at each other, not with each other. very noticable, as that was what i was carrying with me into my marriage to the idiot.

YOu are your own worst enemy, and what you need is individual counseling to learn ways to compensate for very poor family of origin behaviors, which you are carrying today. You can't see them, because they are you and they are in you, but you can do better, be better.

First, work towards understanding that your wife is your equal and is independent from you. So, due to that, you need to understand her. IN order to understand her, you need to ask her questions, and be able to identify her feelings about subjects. If you don't listen, and don't respond with understanding those feelings, you can't understand her. very plain and simple. What you are missing is empathy about her feelings. You need admiration, and she needs understanding.

Both of you are struggling for control of the situation, because you are talking AT each other instead of with each other. And what's up with having to put kids to sleep that you are in their room? time to have them learn to go to sleep by themselves.

wiftty