Thanks! He doesn't know what this site is called but he does know that I "read" about affairs online. He also knows that I have access to both their records due to my work. I get the NC rule, it was just so easy to listen to what she had to say, she kept saying she would tell me if he contacted her, blah blah which I know now, she never will. He lied to her too, told her we were broken up and they were going to move in together, then he would come up with excuses why he couldn't go see her.

Pretty typical for a wayward in withdrawal.

What are his top 3 ENs?
What are you doing to try and meet them?
People here can come up with some great, creative ideas sometimes.

Narrowing it down is difficult. I have asked him about this in the past and asked him to complete the survey but he refuses. I think the top 3 are:
1) Conversation
2) Sexual Fulfillment
3) Admiration

Although I think Domestic Support and Recreational Activity is very high up there as well. I keep trying to ask him different questions, to show interest, and to show that although the thinks we know everything about each other, we don't. I try to do thinks sexually, right now he isn't that interested. I am always telling him how great and wonderful he is, his response is "please don't say that, I am a terrible person for what I've done". I am open to any suggestions!

Admiration is usually a top need of men. Instead of telling him vaguely that he's great and wonderful, admire specific behaviors:
Jim, thank you so much for making breakfast this morning. I was feeling like I was pulled ten different ways and that really made a difference.

Jim, our yard always looks so nice. I'm always proud to come home and to have people know where I live.

Jim, thank you for taking care of the car. It's such a blessing to have reliable transportation. I appreciate that, and I try not to take it for granted.

Admiration carries extra points if you admire him to someone else and he knows about it or finds out about it. Admire him to your parents when you're all visiting, or brag on him to a neighbor or waitress when he's right there beside you. Things like that.

Wow! That is such useful info! What else do you have?

Did you click on the links in turtle's sig line? Read those.

I also used to click on people's names, go to posts, and then topics created. I would go to the first page and read their stories. It is a good way to find out about how the person giving you the advice got to where they are.

Thanks for all the wonderful information. H and I talked tonight, I told him I am here for him, and I will listen to him and anything he has to say. He stated that the fact that he "is here" should count for something. And that part of him wonders if he is meant to be with her and will be happier. I told him I am willing to try, and while him "being here" does count for a lot, it has to be meaningful, and that we need to be doing things to reconnect. he asked what that meant and I mentioned needs and asked if he knew what mine where etc. I did tell him that its very difficult for me, and I am trying to stay positive because I believe in us, but there are times I feel like giving up. Overall it was a good conversation, we did talk divorce, not that we wanted too, just if we could see it happening to us. He said to me that he will never contact her behind my back, and if it came down to him giving in, he would tell me first. (don't believe him!)He said is is constantly struggling not too, but I told him things will get easier if he just hangs there. This is very frustrating because a part of me is angry as to why I have to work to meet his needs when he isn't there to meet mine. He also said he feels absolutly terrible to be missing her so much, and that he can see it causes me pain.

What is DJ ???

Read up on Love Busters (link in my signature)

It's VERY frustrating to have to deal with the pain and anger of betrayal *and* do all the heavy lifting early on. But someone has to take those first steps and the wayward won't. So there you are.

What extraordinary precautions have you guys put in place to keep him from contacting OW?

Examples:
keylogger on the computer and all reports get mailed to you
logger on his cellphone
rules on his email (at home and work) that auto-forward any emails from her to you, or that simply delete her emails
agree to switch cellphones whenever you request it
cellphone or car with GPS enabled at all times so you can see where he's been, and when

It's like being on a diet. It's next to impossible to resist temptation if the cupboards are full of chips and cookies. So you throw out all the easy access points and it becomes a LOT easier.

How do you get through withdrawal without giving up? I found out he contacted her AGAIN....we wrote a no contact letter 2 days ago, she has been texting him yesterday but he did not reply. Now here we go again...last time the withdrawal was so bad I really felt like giving up. Any words of encouragment?

What do you do when your WH is in the "fog" and is not willing to work on your emotional needs and figure out what yours are?

He will be willing to work on your needs once withdrawal is done and you are in recovery. But first he has to have no contact with her. You need to get ready for Plan B. Otherwise you will get tired of giving and giving with nothing in return. Right now he is getting some of his needs met by you and some by her.

I just don't know how long I give him for withdrawal. Its been 4 days since the no contact was estabolished via email. (I was with him when he wrote it). I am trying to do things together and sometimes it works other times he has no interest. I ask him questions about his hopes for the future etc and his response is always "i dont know". He was doing good up until 2 nights ago when I received a call from the OW boyfriend. He had no idea she had one and he thinks its a ploy to get him to contact her. I am so fed up with this, and I am tired of continully not getting my needs met but I don't want to lose him and I think once the fog lifts he will open up.

Does everyone go into Plan B before the WS comes around? Has anyone experienced the withdrawal go away without Plan B?

I'm not real sure how much help I'll be because I have my own problems but I'll share a few thoughts.

- the affair has to die before anything will get better. The nice, neat way of that happening is for them to stop communicating. This will cause withdrawal symptoms which will last for what seems like forever. Then, most waywards will defog and be more open to you meeting their needs. They need them to be met and if the other person is out of the picture, then you are in the perfect spot to do so.

- breaking the no contact rule will be detrimental to everyone because it only sets you up for another round of withdrawal. If they refuse to stop talking or if he refuses to let you meet his needs, at some point, you will need to decide to go to Plan B. This is where I am at, and I know that it is a difficult decision for many reasons. Most men should plan A for about 6 months, women for 6 weeks (from what I've been told).

- my wife's first affair did die after she stopped talking to him and realized how crazy she was to mess around with a married alcoholic. She broke no contact more times than I could count. The withdrawal probably lasted about 6-8 weeks.

- one last thought on meeting his needs. Make sure that you are as attractive as possible anytime he sees you. Try not to let him see anything negative (bad breath, no makeup, etc). I'm sure the OW is always looking her best when he sees her, too.


Good luck.

Thanks so much for your input. I see now that the no contact seems to be the hardest part. (so far!) My H has tried this now for the past year, on and off. Their relationship was over the internet, so there is much fantasy involved. I am hoping and praying that this will be the last time and we can beat this pattern. Its almost been a week since NC has been estabolished and sometimes I see a side of him that I know and love, and other times, I see the fog. Sometimes he tries so hard to pick a fight with me, and I used to give in and have an angry outburst, but I have learned to calmly walk away and talk to him about it after he calms down. I think he has a lot of anger and I will not tolerate it being directed at me, so I hope it comes to an end soon!

Thanks for the info on the attractiveness. I have been trying this more lately. In the past year I didn't. I thought, I am me and he should love me for me. But I understand that I have to be the best W I can and attractiveness is a big part of that. In fact, that was something that the OW has said to me, "You aren't a trophy wife, he said I am sexier, etc" So I have been working out for the past week, and trying harder doing my hair, makeup etc. I think this is actually a big need that he has but will not admit too.

Hopeful, read up on Plan-A. It is really about being the best you that you can be, included in that is best W. Work out, watch your diet, get a pedicure, highlight your hair, get a makeover at one of the department store cosmetic counters, go do things that you used to do before "life" caught up with you. Invite your WH to join you on walks, cook his favorite meals, light candles. Reminisce about fun memories, look through old photos, suggest revisiting some of those times and places together. Make your home and your family a truly warm and inviting place to be!

Whatever happens, improving the person that you are is always a good thing and you could really use the lift right now.

God's Blessings,

Say

Thanks Say!

It really wasn't until this time around that I read about Plan A. I think its the best advice ever given. In the beginning, when the A was first discovered, I was too angry and hurt to even think of doing anything for myself. I would constantly be by his side, and try to do things for him. That has since changed, and I now try to do things for him yes, but I also take my own feelings into account. I am walking an hour a day, and I must say that is some of the best therapy out there. LOL.

During my walk I reflect on things, and if I find that I am getting myself down, I will turn on a song that motivates me and RUN. And I mean RUN. I am learning to do things to make myself interesting to him again. He feels that he knows everything there is to know about me, but he is so wrong. people change over time as does their needs and their feelings. We have an opportunity to change our life and hopefully have a more fulfulling M because of this.

I just hope that he sees this in time. The fog is extremely painful. He pulls away from me emotionally and that is painful. Hopefully I will not have to resort to PLan B, but I will if I have too.