I am sorry to read this FP. Stay strong for yourself.

FP,

I am not sure you made the right move. BUT...I think you have finally made a move. I suspect that you making this move is going to change many things and perhaps not in as bad a direction as you think.

Hang in there and let us know what is happening.

God Bless,

JL

OK. I saw an attorney pop up on the radar of my W's e-mail. We have been NC for a little over a week so I texted her that I wanted to speak with her.

I told her for the kids sake we need to do this together and be as transparent as possible with each other. I also asked her if this is truly what she wanted and she paused and said yes. I asked her if she wanted to try Retrouvaille and she said no she doesn't want to be guilted into the marriage and she is happy being alone. I made it clear to her again that this is something she wants and not me.

We discussed the financial situation with me losing the job and she realizes I will likely have to move back home. She then surprisingly actually told me she saw an attorney for a consult but did not retain her (I would know because I have access to EVERYTHING and I would see the money flow and "chatter" with her friends). I asked her what the attorney said and she said that she was going to have to get another job and start making more money. She also said the attorney told her not to leave the house, which she was planning on doing when I moved in.

I had a consult with an attorney as well who also said get back in the house (no duh,) which I am doing. He said to try to do it amicably because if I walk in one day unannounced she will go balistic and start filing every motion with her attoreney and start running the legal bills. So that is where I am.

My plan? I am not trying to save the marriage any more. She doesn't want it so I ain't fighting for it. When I move in it will be in a seperate room and I will be able to go my way and she can go her way. I will detach wholey and know that I have done everything I could and see where things are at when I find a job.

I sent her an e-mail the day after our discussion because there was something that concerned me in her words. It is added below

Hello,

You should know me by now that sometimes I need to get things off my chest. Prevents the resentment. There were a couple of things you said yesterday that hurt me a bit. When you said �I need to protect me and MY children� as though they are only yours or as though I am not looking out to protect them. (W name here), they have a father that they love very much and a father that loves them very much. They are OUR children. Their children will be OUR grandchildren. They are no more yours than they are mine. You love them no more than I do. In fact no other man or woman will love them more than you and I do so please stop acting as though you are the only one that is looking out for them. In fact I have been looking out for them through this process more than you can even imagine right now.

I do not want or need a response. I just had to get that off my chest. Thanks


Her response

I�m sorry that�s the impression you got. I did not mean it that way. I am worried about finances, and I just need to make sure they will not be missing anything when this is all said and done. I cannot run to you every time I need something, so I need to be sure I can be on my own. What I meant is that by making them my focus I can find my way through these times of �I don�t even know what to call them anymore.

Once again, I hurt you and I did not mean to. I know they are OURS and we both love them. I never meant anything to the contrary. If anything, I think you are closer to them now, than you ever been before.

I'm sorry for the loss of your marriage. If I just had one wish, I'd wish you would have taken our advice earlier, and maybe things wouldn't have had to come to this. Maybe it is just something to learn for your next relationship.

Just do me (actually yourself) a favor. Do not cut this woman ANY OUNCE OF SLACK in the divorce. She doesn't deserve it. Everything she's done the last few years has been to screw you over, and she will continue to manipulate you into getting a better settlement that she could have expected. Don't take the bait. Being a nice guy hasn't got you squat this entire time, it's just allowed you to be walked on. Don't let her continue to walk on you. She would have been content with an open marriage where you paid the bills while she lived in your house and continued to screw whoever she wanted. She's probably pissed that you are finally standing up for yourself and won't allow that anymore. Just get a good, bulldog attorney and tell them that you don't want her to get one dime more than the absolute minimum.

As long as you are there to financially take care of your children, they won't suffer any more than they had to because of your WW's poor decisions. In fact, some might be old enough to decide with whom they want to live. Either way, they DESERVE to know why their parents are divorcing. And the TRUTH is that your WW wants to continue to have affairs, and you just can't take it anymore. Your kids deserve to know about the teacher. They deserve to know about what you found in the trashcan. They deserve to know that you were trying to save the marriage, but that you went about it the wrong way. They need to know these things, so they have a chance of having a successful relationship themselves in the future. They need to know it is NOT okay to do what your WW has done in your marriage. Don't badmouth her, but don't cover for her either. Let them know the TRUTH.

Since she's seen an attorney...

my prediction is she will file BEFORE you move back in to secure primary custody of the kids and as much child support as possible.

Moving back in unannounced may not work but it may be your best shot. The only other alternative I can think of is get her agreement to let you back home (which is still ridiculous in my book) but indicate something like you'll move back in three or four weeks and give her an off-the-cuff comment like you'll let her know when you know for sure. Then show up in Two weeks acting like you already told her. Waywards are notoriously scatterbrains and so are attorneys. Waywards are just too self-centered and distracted and attorney's often just get in the habit of filing EVERYTHING at the last possible second.

Good luck,

Mr. W

OK,

I'm back in the house. It feels great. I finally have some semblance of control back. She has not filed the divorce or restraining order since she knows I will have no income. The attorney told her to wait. It's odd. We talk like roommates "friends". Laugh joke a bit and no blow ups. However, she is seeing the OM#3 who is 10 years younger than her. Oddly enough I have detached from all of that. I think about it but don't feel it. Unfortunately my children do. The other night she got all dressed up to go out on a date and my daughter started laying into her. They got into a fight. My daughter seems to think it is wrong (smart girl) to be dating while I'm in the house and we are not even divorced yet. We are seeing a counselor today as coparents to deal with this but I would love to know what you all think. I can't do the "we are married and living in the same house and you shouldn't date" because quite honestly she will do the opposite of what I say. I can't kick her out of the house because she has the right to stay and will not leave.

The W's mindet is we are divorcing (my mindset as well) and she is seeing someone so there are very limited boundaries, between her and I but something needs to be done about the children.

You all have been great. Gave me the courage to start standing up, detaching etc.

I guess at the end of the day it's about what I want. I don't want to be married to a broken person who needs OM's to fulfill her low self esteem, but I do want her to have regrets down the road and hope that she sees she made a mistake by destroyinbg the marriage and doing what she did.

Any thoughts would be welcome

I feel that she should wait until you are no longer living together, just for the kids sake....
I would question what that is doing to them...
Glad life is more peaceful you as well......
10 years younger, one has got to wonder how long that will last.....

File...like yesterday.

You are likely losing the respect of your children.

Agreed that she should wait until the divorce is over or we are not living together but unfortunately she is extraordinarily selfish and is putting her and the BF ahead of the children under the justification that "they need to get used to us dating". I am going to the counselor with her today. It is her personal IC so I am readying myself for some W centered solutions that focus less on the children and us as coparents and more on the W first and the kids second. My thought is if she wants to go out and date or have overnight stays at the OM's house she should move in with her parents on the weeekends she has free.

This counseling session will beinteresting. My fear is the counselor will put the children last by saying "tey need to get used to the idea of you dating" Yes they do but not right in front of their face while there dad is living in the house.

Any amunition you all can come up with to counter this would be helpful. I'm going into the lions den and I will not put up with the Sh8t

What she is doing is CRUEL to her children, parading the new BF around while dad's still in the house and nothing has been filed.

If I were you I would firmly put my foot down (with voice recorder in pocket) and tell her that this is not acceptable. Tell the children that it is not acceptable. Your daughter needs verification FROM YOU that her instincts are RIGHT ON-- what her mom is doing is WRONG. Otherwise your daughter is going to have serious problems as an adult.

Are you documenting everything? I don't think the courts would look favorably on her behavior as she's clearly not thinking in the best interest of the children.

You need to file ASAP and get some temporary orders on file, preferably including an order that says not to expose the children to any member of the opposite sex during the pendency of the divorce.

The problem with filing is that I have no income and it is usless when we can't even determine the financial arrangements. I do agree that the children should not be exposed to the OM. My W has not paraded him around but the children know she is seeing someone so its enough for them to see her get all dressed up ready to go out.

I will hold a firm line on this with her. While I don't care she is seeing someone I do know the children care and that is the priority. I just hope this counselor is professional enough to do this. If not, no one says I need to listen.

This is horrible. I hate to know that my daughter will build up resentment for my W and possibly alienate her. She is 14 and such a fragile age.

What the heck do I do if the W does nothing and just continues to do what she is. Oh wait a second I know. I am living in a second room right now (mostly because the thought of her having brought men into the master bedroom disgusts me) but if she continues with this I will move back into the master bedroom. Maybe that will make her flee on her weekends. I purposely didn't move back into the bedroom partly so I could have some leverage to set real boundaries and have her know the consequences of her losing her "private" space.

File for divorce. The fact that you have no income means she gets less money. Your children need to see their dad stand up for himself and for them. Have you talked to them about the previous affair with their music teacher? Who is this new guy and can you expose on his side as well?

Just grow a pair and finally stand up to this woman or risk your children becoming her in the future.

On another note, why are you here? You won't take anyone's advice. I am the only regular poster that still post to you anymore because everyone else has given up on you. They should. You have done EVERYTHING wrong. You have listened to NOTHING any of us have said. You could have easily ended affair #1 if you had just exposed to OMW. You didn't. When she finally found out, it ended right away. You could have prevented affair #2 by moving back into the house (which we told you to do immediately), but you didn't. Of all the BS that have EVER come on this board, you have done the WORST job of handling your WW's affair. You are even worse than Rocksolid, and he's been posting here for years about his awful marriage. We have told you everything you could have done to save your marriage but you listened to NONE of our advice. Instead, all you did was AVOID CONFLICT. You are such a conflict avoider you will NEVER have a good relationship as long as you don't fix this. People will always learn to walk on you. I'm so sick of wasting my time posting to you when you have done absolutely nothing to help your situation. In fact you have only made things worse.

Do yourself a favor and salvage your relationship with your children before they lose all respect for you as well. If you aren't going to do anything for yourself, then do it for your children. Teach them how to stand up for themselves. Teach them it is wrong to have affairs and it is NOT okay to just tolerate it. Quit making excuses not to file. File now and see to it that this HORRIBLE woman gets as little as possible. Be a man for your children. Be their father, and their role model. Now is an important time for their development. What you do now is critical. Do you want your daughter doing this to your son-in-law and grandchildren in the future. Send her a powerful message. For god sakes, be a man for once in your life.

I'm done with you. Good luck in the rest of your life.

Sounds to me like your major concern is your income.

I'd rather be hunted down by the police because I left with the kids than have my "wife" flaunting her dates in front of my 14 year old daughter. But hey, that's me.

I'd probably take all the cash I could from your 'wife' and skedaddle. Max out the cash advances too.

Edit to add...I hope you know I meant you and the kids skedaddle?

Note to self: Don't piss off jmwc95.

Thank you JMWC95 for that kick in the [censored]. I was actually glad to see your post. Believe it or not even though I don't do exactly as you say 100% of the time I do absorb it and it does affect my attitude towards her.

I hear what you are saying about conflict avoidance. Oddly enough I was never that way. I always was the opposite so much so that I did a 180 thinking that it would help or thinking that part of the demise of my marriage was entirely because of this. No frigging balance. I see everything now and the fog of what that beatch did has lifted.

To answer your earlier question about OM#2. Yes I told my daughter. When I found out about OM# 2 I told the children we were divorcing (which my W was furious about because of the timing but I didn't care). I also told them this divorce was wanted by your mother and I did everything I could to fight for the marriage and family because I believe in it, but your mom still wants the divorce. I then told them about OM#2. I told them that because your mom is seeing someone and wants to date others, we can no longer be a family. I put 100% of the reason on my W and her desire to date. This was the day before Easter and they needed to know why we were not going to be celebrating together. My W was obviously furious about it but I gave it right back to her. She eventually relented. My D was emotionally disturbed and that was the hardest part. It is driving a huge wedge between the two, but I think you are all right. I would rather have a wedge between her and my daughter than have my daughter lose respect for me and carry that into future relationships.

I am no longer a conflict avoider although admittadly I was a big wussy before. I am also not afraid of the divorce anymore but damn the financial predicament we are in is not one which makes for a pretty situation in which I can provide for the children. I file for divorce now, the house will be gone (they have an enormous amount of friends in the nieghborhood), likely not get full custody (this is a no fault state that is very liberal), and end up paying child support regardless of my lack of income. The kids will be moved to a crappy area in Miami (not a great place to be) and the world will be turned upside down far far more than it is now.

I have been documenting things but from speaking with an attorney friend it doesn't sound like there is enough there to get full custody. No I will not be taking the kids from the house. I would be hunted down in about two days and honestly, the kids wouldn't go and me being hauled away in handcufss would not be good. I need to keep the pressure up on the W and move back into the bedroom. Perhaps this will wig her and the BF out enough to send her to her moms. THEN I will have something to work with.

I am so pissed at myself for how I handled this. People speak of fog talk about the WAW but sometimes the BS is in just as much of a fog.

Yes, move back into the bedroom and have her move out or feel uncomfortable. Put the heat on the OM as well. Raise some hell. If it's a problem for your daughter, then do what you can to protect her from it. As far as custody goes, your children are almost to the point of being able to decide who they want to live with. Your daughter definitely is. Just be the best father you can for them.

Well I walked into the lions den yesterday with the W and her counselor. Actually things went pretty well. The counselor wsa very objective and put the interest of the kids first. The counselor suggested to my wife to live with her parents on her weekends so the kids don't see her going out with her BF. She said it was unhealthy. No duh but my W needed to hear that from her IC.

JmWC - You'll be happy to know I'm moving back into the master today. It couldn't have worked more beautifully. At the end of the session we were about to leave and I asked the counselor if I could mention one more thing. I turned to my W and asked her "do you feel you are entitled to have the master bedroom. Do you believe it is your right" I could see the counselor have a curled smile knowing exactly what I meant. Unfortunately the W started spouting off "Yes I am entitled to it." The counselors face changed to more of a 'oh no she didn't' look. I asked my W the question again and she kept spouting off and the counselor started to shut her up because she was burying herself a whole the size of the grand Canyon. I immediately said " You are not entitled to it. I am moving in tomorrow, clear your stuff". DANG THAT FELT GREAT. My W was in shock and started spouting out that I am doing this because she is dating and blah blah blah.

The counselor jumped in immediately and said "no W it is about appreciation and respect. He allowed you to have the room when he first moved in. You are not entitled to it". My W wouldn't shut up and the counselor finally told her "W no more. We will talk about this one on one". It felt so great to have her own IC that she loves so much tell her to "be quiet".

Now that that is solved. I need to figure out how to get her to sleep at her moms house on her weekends. I am sick of seeing her get all dressed up to go out. I am sick for the kids.

Now here is the question. I am detached from the out come of this M. How would I approach things if I wanted the marriage to work vs. not at all. Are there different approaches. My is seeing someone regularly.

You expose and put pressure on your WW to end the affair. You would make OM's life hell until he dropped your WW.

Its reassuring to hear there is at least one person in the house who has some sense and understands that OPEN adultery is wrong. Where did she learn right from wrong? Did she read it in a book?

I am also a kid who grew up with parents who didn't know right from wrong, but it took me until I was in my 30's to figure it out.

My suggestion would be to get the same book your DD read and read up on the concept of right and wrong. Maybe she can give you some pointers!