OH,

I wish for a do-over sometimes too, but in the end I always come back to the idea that no one can predict the future. For example, your H's psyche (or yours) may not have been able to tolerate the role switch. If I knew about MB when I was dating my H, would I have married him - given what MB says about marriages where spouses are seaparted over-night or what MB says about AOs and Domestic Violence? Would I have ended up with another man - Would I have been better off or worse? We don't really know.

All we can really do is focus on & work with what (who - LOL) we have now.

This morning my husband called me @ work & made a thoughtful request. He also referenced his perception of a past behavior as his reason for making the request.

I paused to turn on my MB learnings. I thanked him for the info. I asked him to never be afraid to give me feedback - even if he thinks it might hurt my feelings. I said it's better to have info and be able to correct / address something than not. I assured him I would honor his request and then I started to apologize for the past behavior. But he interrupted me and he immediately retracted his statement about the past behavior and he said "You know what - We said we weren't going to dredge up the past, we're going to concentrate on the future when we communicate with each other." I agreed and then the convo went on in another direction.

Neat!

Last night my husband helped me up to our bedroom. I got completely undressed and got into the bed. He placed the covers over me and kissed me right on the mouth (slowly), and he said, "We'll talk on Saturday."

I was stunned. I think I kissed him back but I'm not sure if I did because I was so shocked / surprised. I held his hand and I said "OK."

I am hoping for something positive for Saturday. I am hoping that I'll come back here on Saturday night and say that we've registered for a Marriage Builders weekend.

Please wish us good luck.

Luck!

(you got lost in the frayed knots, eh?)

?

Great job. Both of you!

Your post from this AM got shifted down, that's all. I think there were six pages added on the POJA thread by the time I got home.

Appears he's responding.

Maybe your postings will be your journal...but overtime hopefully you'll see a bell shaped curve to these "responses".

Until then...expect them to be spaced out and small at first. Also...they will include down cycles like a roller coaster that goes up and down.

In down cycles he MAY be testing this new you...trying to see if you are for real or if this is just an act. It's important to maintain your calmness and composure. Of course, down cycles also may just be an off-day or bad mood...so just keep plugging along.

Good job so far.

Mr. W

Thanks Mr W.

Bookmarking this one too

Ya know...I thought about this a bit more last night and wanted to look into this. Maybe I've missed a conversation (or two) of yours so I'm sorry if this has been discussed already. (which would be on par since my first post to you assumed infidelity).

Anyway...with MB we certainly are not supposed to "dredge up the past", fight about it, or endless rehash it (naval gazing); however, we aren't supposed to bury it and forget about it either.

History is valuable learning tool. History provides a context to a relationship. History will effect your feelings and emotions.

I just wonder if your husband's statement above is more self interested than at first glance it appears. Does he want to completely bury his past behaviors and not have them ever discussed or did he say it because he's geniunely interested in working fully on the marriage? I am not telling you to disrespectfully judge his intentions...as neither of us KNOW what he was thinking and what motivated him; however, going forward keep an eye out for him wanting to NEVER discuss the past at all.

As an example of the difference.

The NFL Detroit Lions suck. Imagine a new coach comes to the football team at training camp this summer and says "We are going to forget the past. We will not discuss it in any way, shape or form...ever. We are a winning team now and the past is the past". 10 weeks later they are in preparations for the 1st regular season game against a divisional opponent that they had just played (and LOST to) the prior season. Of course, they should all watch the game film to prepare for such game. Nobody would stand up and say..."butt coach [sniffle sniffle] you said we will not discuss last season EVER. Isn't watching this old game film from last years 2-14 season rehashing the past???"


I think YOU SEE it...since you were willing to calmly discuss "the past" and begin apologizing for it. But him "cutting you off" could be a sign of him intentionally burying the past...as a NON-topic. As you move through this process he may, at some point, need a reminder that it's OK to TALK about the past...calmly. It's who you two are and how you got where you are today. As you build a relationship of extra-ordinary care and intimacy ANY subject can be discussed (even uncomfortable ones, like the past).

I hope I'm not off point again,

Mr. W

p.s.- Did somebody just say "butt coach"????

I saw it more of him trying to retract the statement because he brought it up himself - and not as a point of "discussion" but to justify his request. I looked at it as he was thinking - "OOps I should have just made the request without bringing that up." And I agree. A thoughtful request does not include references to "bad behavior" in the past.

You did miss quite a bit I am guessing (but I understand - there's a lot to read here and quite a few people here asking for help / advice.) We have been discussing the past quite a bit lately also, we have no infidelity issue. I thnk our issues are:

1) in the past one of our jobs kept us separated for long periods of time. (Military)
2) past instances of domestic violence
3) resentment from me as a result of #2
4) a whole host of LBing behavior on both of our parts.

This weekend we had sex. He initiated it and I participated. It happened after I got home from my Girl's Night to watch the film, The Secret.

In another thread, we were talking about the EN of Sexual Fulfillment and how it may be unhealthy as part of a Plan A or part of a plan to try to draw a spouse out of Withdrawl. Well, here we have a living example. ME.

I am not sure how I feel about it. Part of why I did it was to help me straighten out how I feel about him. It did not really provide me with any answers...I wasn't disgusted but I wasn't head over heels in love either.

I have seen this in the past day or so: My H doesn't like himself very much at the moment. I believe that this may make things difficult for our marriage. How can a person who is not happy with themselves be happy with another person?

Anyway, we did not have another "big talk" as he stated we would ~ two nights ago. Honestly, I am not ready to have another "big talk", so I didn't bring it up...I would rather just relax for a bit and enjoy my new calmer self - who would be OK married to him or not married to him. Last night, I had a wonderful time with the new pals I recently made & I am eager for more. Interestingly, many of them are divorced / separated. One is working on her 3rd marriage. She referred to herself as a "serial monogamist" and revealed that her dad had been married about 3 or 4 times. I found their experiences to be very interesting. Especially the woman who was on her 3rd marriage..She fascinated me because I did not think falling in "Let's Get Married" love 3 times was possible. I wasn't sure that I wanted their lives though.

So my H and I have been hugging and kissing frequently since we had sex last night, and I keep waiting for my "feelings" to align with my actions of touching him and being affectionate but so far my feelings are not lining up with my actions. I realize it's only been a day but do any vets have any input / advice / observations for us & where we are at this point?

Another thing is - I would like to get us registered for an MB Weekend (the soonest one is in May) I am not sure if now is the time to bring it up. I am willing to wait.

Keep at the "actions"...it's not going to be a quick fix. Think of it more as a way of life, whether it works out with this husband or not. Because ultimately, what you are learning here at MB is essentially what Dr. Harley has discovered are the habits of the 20% of married couples that sustain romantic love throughout their enduring marriages.

They ARE good habits.

I've seen it written that it takes 4 to 6 weeks to break a single bad habit with concerted effort. Breaking a host of bad habits, at the same time while trying to incorporate healthy ones that are molded to another also changing and maturing spouse has got to take at least a year or two. Not to mention, when you change the dynamics of your marriage...what you THOUGHT were once your top needs...aren't in fact, your top needs at all...it was just perhaps the top malnourished need.


As far as sex...

My simplistic opinion is...

Women fall in love leading up to sex
Men have sex and then fall in love.

I think you were mistaken to expect to feel anything much AFTER sex with him...however, having sex was a good thing for your marriage.

Also...selling MB to your husband. Besides him liking your changes. MB is also PERFECT for the military guy. It's NOT naval gazing. It's a BATTLE PLAN to save your marriage and SUCCEED (with success being defined beyond mere miserable co-existence). Plus, it's a cure for his depression. My wife and I rebuilt our marriage. It's a success no one can take away from us. The economy can fail. Businesses can fail. Kids can disappoint. But I'm successful at "husband" and Mrs. W is successful at "wife" no matter what. Marriage can be the wellspring of happiness and mental stability.

Good luck...Mr. W

I disagree with Mr Wondering on his simplification:


I know too many cases of it being otherwise.

But he is right about sex being good for your marriage.
It is vital for your marriage.
Like fuel for your automobile, you aren't going anywhere without it.

Last night I participated in this again. It was easier than the last time. He was "waiting" for me in the bed. And, he was very much aroused and very much into it. At this point, he is being far more affectionate. Started kissing me goodbye in the a.m. as we're leaving for work. I continue to be affectionate as well - I place my hand on his back & rub it while we're driving, touch him lovingly in small ways throughout the day.....things like that. I am doing this and thinking "feelings follow behavior." MB is marriage based. The thing is - I am feeling very confused, but I am not sure why. It may be because I am feeling a little "used"...((groan)) I don't know...Not sure. I also keep wondering if there's someone else out there for me. Wondering if I am making a mistake by trying to save this marriage.

I am trying with all my mental might to manage these feelings.

Not sure if they're linked to the sex. I guess they aren't. I mean - I recall typing these same thoughts here earlier when he and I were barely speaking, not co-sleeping, & I was first trying to do MB. Maybe they are linked to this-->

I have been snooping because of some things I saw on the SAA threads...People being blindsided because they just "knew" there was no way their spouse could be cheating. In his email I found some porn site subscriptions (free 3 day trials & then the cancellations). On the online billing records for our cell phones I found quite a bit of text message activity between him and a female friend - knew about the friend but didn't know how frequent the communications were, and on his cell phone I found text message exchange between him and someone (a woman) which made my heart jump:


My H NEVER tells me I am pretty or calls me "Pretty Lady." In the past, when I asked him why, he said he "just isn't that type of person."

This made me look a little more into the billing records for the cell phones and I found a few more exchanges but I couldn't see exactly what was said or sent because he has already erased it from his cell phone. Within minutes I was able to find out exactly who this woman was, her address, her employment info and her Facebook Page. They aren't friends on Facebook and the cell phone contact seems to be sporadic. There are a few brief calls as well.

Do I think he's having an affair? No. But I do think he has flirted and is flirting with this woman.

I thought that I should take a page from Mark1952's book & become his "best option" and keep the info I discovered to myself while being on the lookout for more info of the same. Am I right to handle it this way or should I confront him with what I found?

I am nervous because he seems to be emerged from Withdrawl. I don't want to make the wrong move now.

Oh no...the folks in SAA feelthat my H is having an affair. What am I going to do now?

Mark? LA? Someone!

Pray, pray, pray. You can do this, Chris! Many have been in your shoes before, and recovered stronger marriages with their spouses than they ever had before.

(((Hugs)))

I can do this you say? What can I do?

I am in a Plan A without him knowing that I know about these texts / phone calls! Should I just keep going with the Plan A being that he appears to be responding so well?

OMG...I need to breathe & calm down!