You did read Carrot and Stick, right?


The usual snow job. Affairs always follow a movie script that never changes, only the players and a few wording differences. Affairs are like bodice rippers: Same plot, almost the same words, different players.

Ask around if there are jobs available for him where you live.

Larry

Yeah, so he is following the script and doesn't even realize it! Ha, what idiocy. I say that because he is always saying that things with us aren't "black and white", things aren't "simple", and no one can pyschoanalyze him or know how he is truly feeling because they are not him. What a laugh.

So, he didn't call yesterday until I texted him asking him why he didn't call to talk to the boys like he said he would. He was all agitated and said that it's so "hard" for him there and I wouldn't know anything about it b/c I've never had to be "alone". He said he is not happy about it and even though he agreed for myself and the boys to go to Iowa he still says it's not going to "do" what I want it to "do". He thought it was all about him. I left for my health, the baby's health, and my two boys' health. He thinks I'm trying to get certain reactions out of him in order to see if he truly "cares". HAHA. Right now I KNOW he doesn't care. I will admit, of course, that coming to Iowa was part of a bigger plan to save my marriage. Not just for healt. But he doesnt need to know that.

Also, I told him over the phone how hurtful it is that I know he is still in constant contact with the OW. He got real agitated with that and asked if I was checking the call log and I said I only checked it once to see if we were over on minutes. Which was true. He is going over on our cell minutes to talk to vampira. So after that he was just annoyed with me and didn't want to talk anymore but blamed it on the fact that he is so upset that his sons don't even understand that they are supposed to live with him. Well, who's fault is that? He is still not taking any responsibility. He did somewhat when he sent me a text the first night (after he drank a whole bottle of wine) saying that he's not a good man for me right now and that we don't need to be with him when he is in the state of mind he is in. And he misses us and blah blah...i told you the rest about him needing to reconcile past "lies" and "decisions". FOG BABBLE, lol. So, that is the latest.

Somewhere around here is "Reverse Babble," a training post on how to deflect Fog Babble back on the, uh, ?? babbler? fogger? frogger? No that isn't right. What's the word?

Maybe someone will read this who knows where it is. I have forgotten.

Larry

I believe the reverse fogbabble thread is under the Notable Posts forum... LMK if you can't find it, TB

Married 15 years, daughter 14, I am 47, husband is 54 yrs.
Don't have any info on OW, just a phone number, city and know that she is very close to his current place of employment.

I have read plan A and plan B and also have copy of His Needs Her Needs, have read so much on website and have basic understanding of concepts, but I have not read "Surviving an Affair." I am in desperate need of advice and guidance as to what to do. I am not working - we have owned a business, a mortgage company that failed and I did not return to workforce but stayed at home to home school my daughter, so I am totally dependent on husband financially, looking for work but tough job market.

About 9 months ago my husband took a job about 50 miles away but the commute to the job can take 1-1.5 hrs depending on traffic so he began to complain and say we needed to move closer. Understand that we have moved so many times - on average of 1 time per years since we been married that when he mentioned moving I was less than enthusiastic. We came up with a foolish compromise that I agreed to but shouldn't have. He got a 1 bedrm apt 5 minutes from job and my daughter and I would be there most of the week and he would come home on weekends. This did take place, but my WH also started drinking and going to clubs partying, etc. I discovered. On weekends when he would come home he would get anxious early in the day on Sunday saying he was anticipating the workweek, feeling stressed, blah, blah, blah.

I was very naive about the situation and it never crossed my mind that he was cheating....one day my sis and her husband were out at company function and saw him at a club in a hotel first dancing with woman(this is not OW, different woman) and afterwards sitting at bar with her leg wrapped over his. When he saw them, he chased after them saying nothing was going on and he was going home immediately to tell me about it which he did, saying nothing happened and he was coming home anyway. Later he called and cried on phone with my sister apologizing and told me he would never do anything like that again.

Fastforward to our decision to get 2 bedrm apt(and he give up the 1 bedrm) and move out of our home completely because too difficult coming back and forth between two places. WH goes out partying, get drunk, comes in late, I'm furious, can't sleep. Something says check text messages. The text is from someone in his contacts by the name of Anthony but clearly from a woman saying sorry i made you angry, just wanted to hear your voice, love you. He replies that he's in chicago (a lie) and will contact her when he gets back. She replies - who takes care of your daughter when your're out of town? He did not reply to her, so I replied to the text stating - his loving and adoring wife, who else? I assume this woman thinks he's divorced/not married.

When he wakes up I confront him about the text messages. He says he is so angry that I would invade his privacy that he doesn't want to be married to me anymore and he's done with our marriage. I was so blindsided by his response to my confrontation that I packed up my things and me and my daughter went to my sister's. I called him on my way there to tell him I wanted to fight for I marriage and his reply was I'm done with you and that woman is the person who does my nails. About 3 days later I went to pick up more things and found out he had been telling his older kids (my stepkids who are adults) that our relationship was over. He changed the locks and threw away all photos of me or me and him displayed in our home. When I tried to discuss the text he denied that anything was going on and said he can't control how this woman feels about him. He promises no more contact with her. Of course he talked about all the ways I failed to meet his needs and how I have not been there for him, going back to our honeymoon and describing all these insignificant incidents as the reason why I'm driving him to drink (and justifying his actions for his involvement with the OW).

The drinking, bars and partying continued on weekends, sometimes during the week. I continue to try to meet his needs and be an adoring wife, but everytime he wanted to drink or I assume, see this woman he would start to get angry, start a fight, withdraw so that he could have an excuse to be away from home.

Backtrack - he also called me one night several a month or two before I discovered the text messages saying that he was going to a Christmas party for work. I went out to go to grocery store and spot him walking out of the store with a bag (of liquor of some kind) - he spotted my car and he was looking anxiously trying to see if it was actually me. I pulled around in parking lot and he pulled out and rolled down window. He said - I was going to surprise you - I left the party early and I'm on my way home. When he got home he was extremely agitated and said he was going to the gym - by this time it's 9:30p.m. and he stays away for 3 hours. I had started making notes and dates of what was happening as a reality check for myself and I looked at the call log to this number where the text came from and he called her that same night after he called me to tell me he was going to the Christmas party.

About a month ago he got a DUI and I thought this would be his wakeup call. He called me at 3 am saying I'm not home because I am in jail for DUI need you to pick me up in couple of hours, car is impounded. Calls back says he will take cab. I leave for church a couple hours after he returns and I try to confront him about where he was prior to DUI. Bank statements show he was at a nightclub. Checked his phone when I returned from church - call to this woman at 5:30 am. - I assume she's person who dropped him off and a call to her at 8:30 am after I left for church. Could be a ONS or more involved with other women as well. Woman called the house one day and my daughter answered. After our daughter gave him the message, he was so distraught that night he asked me to leave, said we needed to separate. Told me had gone out one night while I was away at my siter's and since I was so convinced he was having an affair he decided to have one. Gave 3 women his phone number but didn't go through with it. This is a lie since a woman called the apt. the next day and there was other evdience that I'm too hurt to mention. He also brough new underwear, shaved pubic hair and bought new cologne.

He continues drinking for another week. I finally leave again and tell him he must stop drinking for our marriage to stand a chance.

I spend a week at my mom's away from him and I have peace. He calls me everyday, sometimes several times a day to make sure I'm ok, tell me if I need money he made deposit into account, etc. After about week he calls me saying he's really sick and needs to go to emergency (bleeding in stools). He asks me to call and get him appt. asap. I do so but he calls back and says don't come, he will let me know what's up after he sees doctor. I go anyway and we talk, cry, he promises to stop drinking.

For the last 3 weeks since we have been back in our our home he has not taken 1 drink and for 14 years of our marriage he never drank at all. After the failure of our business and and a dramatic decline in our lifestyle he becamed depressed. I was upset with him about all the bad financial decisions and the fact that he excluded me form decisions, sometimes spending $10,000's (this is not a typo) withoug consulting me. I don't think he will return to drinking and we moved back into our home and cancelled the lease on the apartment. We had another fall out 1 week later and he stayed out all night (not drinking, seemed sober when he got home). Said he drove to the beach 2 hrs away to think and decide if he really wanted to be married to me. Said he's been blaming me for things that he shouldn't, he wants our marriage to work and loves me. Says he slept in his car at the beach. I still had my doubts, continued to pray, had days where my suspisions would mount. I logged into our wirless bill online and changed his password to get in - he called me angry that I had done this - raised my suspisions even more. Said he has nothing to hide, but after what I did checking his text messages, doesn't trust me (not these words but implied).

He told me again that he has been praying and are committed to our vows. Does not feel safe when he is not with me and will do everything to make marriage work. Says he needs individual counseling and we need marriage counseling. I identify counselor then he says it will have to wait because we can't afford it right now. He is withdrawn but is being kind, won't have sex, says it's his blood pressure medication. We start praying together in morning before work about 2 days ago. My individual prayer has been for God to bring everything in the dark to light. Yesterday I received a text from the woman-I belive she meant to send it to him. She had my cell phone number because I had sent her a text telling her to stay away from my husband and the God will punish her for her sin. The text simply stated that she had to work today but would be off tomorrow. So I assumed they were trying to get together.

I called him at work upset, and said we can talk when he gets home. He came home in a confrontational mode and demanded that I show him the text. I refused because I did not want him make up another lie about why she sent it. I told him I just want him to tell me the truth and that he needed to calm down so we could talk. I never told him the content of the text message either. He said that I was playing games and being manipulative and he had only one thing to say to me. He will be moving out. I said please move on Friday when you get paid because clearly you are unwilling to work through these issues. He said I can't dictate when he moves and he will move when he gets ready. He also stated that this woman is being vindictive (why would a woman he has never had an affair with be vindictive), he's had no contact with her and her friends may have sent me the text.

Sorry for so much detail but because he continues to deny of course he makes me think I'm crazy or paranoid. He usually keeps his cell phone with him at all times, but a couple of days ago,he kept asking me to hold his cell phone while he went to the restroom while we were at the doctor's office, I guess a demonstration that he trusts me or is trying. But when I received that text yesterday it set us back to square one.

I understand plan A and but I am not sure how to proceed. I agree with Dr. Harley's policy of radical honesty wholeheartedly. How can we rebuild if he won't admit the truth?

We have been talking about relocating and I told him this morning maybe we just need a fresh start and should move out of state. He is unhappy with his job (always the case) and we don't like the hustle and bustle of the city we are in, job prospects are especially bad, etc. But he said he can't deal with my behavior of trying to control and manipulate him. But we can talk when he gets home.

But if we stay in California I am not sure how I should proceed. Let him just go if that is his plan and attempt to implement Plan A while he is here? Or just ignore him until he leaves which is what the Taker in me wants to do.

Southern Girl,

I copied your post to a new thread so you could have your own.

You'll find it here.

Southern Girl's Thread

Welcome to MB! Hang on, help is on the way.

Thanks, Meggy - I was just getting ready to do that~

Thank you!
I knew I was doing something wrong but not sure how to post.

Thanks! I've read the reverse babble post and also the one "inside the wayward's mind". Both have helped tremendously. Do you think that when he comes to see the birth (if he makes it) or shortly thereafter it could have an effect on him? I mean, the fact that he would be surrounded by my family and everything he has known for the last 9 years. Could this help to break the "fog", if you will? I know that vampira will show her true colors, he will realize who she truly is and I'm hoping that is sooner rather than later...

It may help. He will be in withdrawal while he is there with you. It also may be that he will be replaced while he is with you in Iowa. And he will be sooner or later. Vampira will get all she wants and that is that. It is just a mater of time.

Seeing the new baby might shock him awake. ?????

Good show on the learning curve. I don't think I have seen inside the wayward's mind, will go read it, me.

Larry

Do not count on the fog clearing any time soon.

If it does, it will be a nice surprise.

Fog is thick and rarely goes as quick as we think.

I know you want this all to be over and over right away.

Steal up for a long haul though.

Plan and study your plan and keep your intelligence close to the vest so you are able to keep track of stuff while in plan A.

Focus on your upcoming birth and the actual baby versus your H. Yes, fill his emotional needs as best as you can figure and yet.....prepare for the wonderful event of meeting your new youngest child!

PM,

Thanks for your post. My oldest child is almost 5 and his brother just turned 3. This new baby is due May 5th. I am sticking with plan A for now. I haven't been doing any LB's. I have been texting him everyday to let him know how much we miss him and love him. I talk about the baby, my doctor appointments, and the plans for him to come out here when the baby is due. Sometimes he responds, sometimes he doesn't. He got real defensive when I brought up how much it hurts that he is in contact with the OW everyday and ignores us. I said it very respectfully and just wanted to share my heart with him. He was being very cold and distant. He is not at all the man I married or even the man I knew 6 months ago. It is so shocking how such a drastic change can happen in such little time. I know that we had problems in our marriage that I contributed to, but obviously that is not an excuse to have an affair. I was blindsided by this.

Larry,

I am doing better at not blaming myself for this. I am getting stronger in that area. What I am having trouble with now is picturing him and her together. Seeing him in my mind acting "loving" with her. Doing the things he used to do with me, with her. Giving her is all and sharing everything with her. Making love (or rather, FORNICATING) with this vampira and enjoying every minute of it. This makes me seethe with ANGER because I did NOT enjoy the drunken one time infidelity (very brief like i have said and obviously because i was NOT enjoying that awful sin). That is what makes me so upset about it because I picture him enjoying everything about sex with her and thinking she is more beautiful than me (even though I don't think she is) and better than me. (and i know that isn't true, but it's hard not to feel that way sometimes right now) I would not allow myself to be in any position to get close to another man b/c I know that everyone is capable of doing this. I know in my heart I would not leave my husband and ruin our lives over some selfish affair. This whole thing disgusts me and I don't even recognize my husband, not at all. He is such a devil right now.

Question about a good plan A to preface plan B. Since I am in Iowa and he is in California will I still be able to do this and have it be effective? I text him and I call him. I don't LB. Will this be enough?

About the sexual fullfilment....last Saturday when I was still in CA with him, he stopped our sexual relationship. He said he couldn't do that with me anymore because of how he feels about our marriage and how he is not committed right now. He said he loved me and desired me but couldn't do that with me because he is a "man of honor". (now isn't that ironic. a man of "honor" having an affair....) So I really don't know how to relate to him about sexual things. I don't know how to do that b/c he has made it so awkward. He has cut me out of everything. Out of his heart and mind, now he has cut me off sexually b/c he most likely is boning her.

Do you really think she only wants him for the short term? My Uncle is married to his OW and they have been for 10 years. It makes me sick. I hate it. That is what freaks me out. I would be so devastated if my WH ran off with vampira and then made her his new wife and had babies with her. I would want to throw up for eternity.

No clue. But go look a the picture of her with the guy that you can google. See the self centered expression on her face? See who she has been doing in the past?

Infatuation chemicals can last a long time in the brain, but not forever.

She IS getting old. She knows it. I can't figure out why she hasn't latched onto money. Maybe she is too over the hill for that now. Hollywood and SCal culture ages people, fast.

Larry

Tinkerbell, this is good. You are causing emotional conflict for him. Keep this up. When he comes home to see the new baby and his sweet boys it's going to tear him up. He may be alien, but seeing his family is going to be huge. I'd like to think it will jolt some reality into him, but only he can choose to see reality.

If seeing his family doesn't slap him out of it, go to Plan B and concentrate on your sweet kids.

Yeah, you're right. My husband is being stupid obviously and he would be a real fool to throw away his family for this dispicable relationship he has. If coming home and seeing the whole family and new baby doesn't knock any sense into him then I will go to plan B. I'll send him packin and let him know we'll be in Iowa and he can contact us when he's done with his childish affair and is ready to be committed to our marriage. I think that is what is best if he hasn't woken up by then.

I like this plan. Mainly because it protects YOU and your boys. I've got my fingers crossed that seeing all of you will knock him off the fence and put him back home, where he belongs.