Infidelity/adultery is a human being issue, not a nationality issue. There have been many betrayed Aussie's on these boards.

Keep your focus on your WW's....therein lies the problem

Aww, just havin' a little fun NotTooFun. I started it by pointing out the suspected relationship my ww might have developed during the cruise. I don't know if I ever mentioned it but the first clue was a couple of pictures FIL took of ww and the Aussie in a fairly close embrace. I suppose it could have been anything, but I also saw the look on ww's face... - thanks Dad for the Kodak moment.

Thanks for your reposnse above also N2F, I always look froward to hearing from you. I'm also checking out that thread you mentioned.

opt

My post was meant in jest. Guess I should have added a smiley or two

I saw some of it. I think she has a few more as well.
--Also interested to measure my own waywardness up against the list. Been thinking about that a lot today.

I "gown up" before I have a conversation with her. She wonders why I am covered in yellow disposable fabric, mask, and gloves. I just tell her "don't worry dear, it's for your protection."

opt

So, what did you come up with?..... Remember that list is for WWIVES, not the H's. There was talk of doing one concerning WH's but it never did happen.....but what exactly are you thinking about your OWN wayward behavior?


Ohhhhhh, is it a Vera Wang model????....

Not2fun

my post was not meant for you or Opt, but for newbies reading along that are still mired in the beginning mess. Trying to keep their focus where it should be.....

But I understood the joking....

No, we get it N2F. I have injected my share of humor into my thread, mostly b/c it's who I am and it feels good to be getting some of my old personality back (hopefully just the good parts of it).
HOWEVER, I do remember going through threads as a newby and not being in any sort of mood for jokes.

I'd be honored if someone was able to learn from my experience. Hopefully they'll read the whole thread to see someone grow from total bewilderment to some degree of acceptance through intensive learning and seeking difficult answers.

opt

I can�t get through that whole thread, but I found KiwiJ�s post most interesting and relevant.
My situation reflected by ** below.
**this is a painful and embarrassing exercise...

[This is from an ANCIENT thread which I was on. (Do you know how totally weird it is going back to first posts? I don't even recognise that person - me) It describes an OM, so I guess it also describes the WH. I found it very true when I first read it. It seems to fit here.]

"What the OM wants:

-They want the A to stay w/in bounds
**Had my limits to keep it safe from getting caught

-They thrive on the diversion, the excitement of the illicit, forbidden sex. the variety.
**I was having needs met that wife was not meeting (due to various reasons). I didn't like the secrecy part- probalby 1 reason why I never pursued any more A's.

-Some get relief from home. May be having M issues. May have a W that ignores him for kids, work, etc.
**(as above)

-Able to reveal themselves emotionally.
**not me.

- Doesn't want the R to get serious!!
**absolutely. In it for one thing (which, strangely, was not my character, I might add)

-He may say "I love you" but he still isn't committing to anything
**no commitment on my part

-Men regard an A as an addition to marriage not as possible replacement
**yup

-Most men let the married women know about the restrictions of the R. "I'd never divorce my wife because of the kids." That is the number 1 excuse the OM uses
**when I told my Affair Partner (who in retrospect was trying to bust up my M) I had no intention of leaving my wife, the whole thing cooled off and died out a short time later � 9/11 also had an affect on the affair.

-The woman's emotional investment flatters the OM but causes discomfort
**I was always nervous she�d reveal the sitch, but fortunately she was my SUPERVISOR, so I had that over her head.

- Married women are unlikely to end the undiscovered A. It's usually the OM."
**Ending was mutual and helped by OW moving out of town.

I do a lot of baseball umpiring (Little League, I�m no pro). One of my favorite mottos I�ve heard from being around these guys is �you�re either getting better, or you�re getting worse.�

Also, I remember reading MB 101 for a while when I was learning about the site. It seems that a lot of folks there will come in (not affair driven) with motivation to improve their marriage but their mate is NOT getting on board with strict MB principles. Frustrating. Point is: those willing spouses were advised (if I remember right) to live the principles and basically lead by example.
I�m probably not saying it right, but you�re not alone in your quest. I guess the advice is: apply the principles to yourself and good things will happen. Have you tried presenting her with one idea at a time? Like explaining the POJA and asking her to try it with you for a while�maybe she'd be more receptive if it was spoon fed in small managable bites.
[Edit to add: sorry Linus, I just caught up with your "6 months" thread and it looks like youre already doing the poja. nice work]

[Linus, I totally don�t mind you hijacking, you�re welcome to my abode anytime. However, I might ask the mods to move this and your post to your thread because I think it would be helpful there � you�ve hit on some good ideas and they could be built upon in the context of your story]

opt

I justified it in so many ways. My wife has some sexual dysfunction based on a terrible incident from when she was a teen that never was addressed. What I really regret right now, is that if I had handled that better, with compassion and understanding, love and care, I might have been able to help her through that and then who knows where we'd be today. Instead I gave up on her. So now she'll carry that into the next phase of her life, maybe forever.

I also was of the seriously disillusioned and ignorant mindset that an affair could be carried out and not cause any harm as long as it wasn�t discovered. Since it was a supplement to my M, I thought it helped us. (I so want to puke even saying it).
In fact, I remember telling my adultery partner, once we decided to end it, that the experience had actually made my M better. [a real Casanova am I�]
Affair partner was willing to do things wife was not, I could please her in ways my wife wasn�t interested in. This strengthened my sense of entitlement. What I should have done was work within the M to build the trust with my wife and increase her comfort with me. We never had good communication when it came to SF.

I could probably go on but I'm making myself sick.

[ww's answer to "will I ever be able to trust anyone again]
Okay, I got some clarification on this last night. (I don't know why I do this). The next permeutation was
"you need to feel good about yourself. And you'll have to feel very confident in your own ability to forgive."
--and that, folks, is a ww's interpretation on what it takes for a man to be able to trust someone after they've been through Dday. ...sounds a lot like "follow your heart."

opt

Hi Optimism,
I am going to sign off this site now. I've posted just a little bit ago that C and I did reconcile, and it relieved a lot of my pain.

I just wanted to thank you for your support. Alsothat you have my support and prayers in your situation.

I know that this is anethema on most sites, and I realize that being in an online AA site now for several years, but I feel you are someone worth knowing, and if you ever did want to contact me my email is: tr4551@att.net

In meantime thank you and you will have my prayers.

Rom

Why, thank you, Rom; you're entirely too kind.

Not2Fun, if you're still checking in, I think you're right about I need to stop having "these conversations" with my ww. Not because some of her logic might "rub off" on me - I can assure you there is no worry about that.

Another big discussion this morning has me convinced beyond any doubt that I can no longer be around this woman. She is lost. Morally drifting at sea. It's rather sad. I really feel the only thing I can do for her is pray for her.

I am concerned that this woman will be bringing up my children up to 50% of the time. This strengthens my resolve to provide for them the best possible example of Integrity and True North Principles that I can. MB has shown me a new path; onward I march; I hope my children follow my footsteps and not someone else's.

Soon I'll let this thread fade and start a new one in Divorce board. Ww's financing went through (with help from Bank Daddy), she moves out in 11 days (not that I'm counting...)

Optimism

Opt - you will be starting a new journey soon - a new life. A better life for you and the kids. I'll follow your new thread and offer all of the support I can. It's going to be rough.

Your WW has no idea what she's losing.

Thanks Linus as always.
It's good to know there are folks out there that are concerned and supportive and helpful.

I've always had the utmost respect for the single parent. I marvel at my sister, divorced 10 years with 2 kids. Parenting is so much work I literally don't know how people do it.

Last night I had some alone time and was reflecting on the fact that last time I was single was such a long time ago [wow, I don't think I've ever used the word "time" three times in one sentence before]. I was very bad at it, missed a lot of opportunities; drank way too much and didn't get out enough.
This time will be different.

You know I'll be checking in on your situation too friend

Opt

Opt- I think we need to get you a thesaurus hehehehehehe.

I too have marveled at single parents and how hard it is and now I get to find out for myself. YEA ME(sarcasm).

Hang in there Opt.

Hey opt - I just noticed/realized that you're in MA. I grew up in New England, and lived there (MA, CT, RI) for many, many years.

Go Sawx

Hey Linus,
I moved out here for college and never moved back to Michigan where I grew up.

WW is in the process of packing up her stuff. Wednesday she closes and moves out, we've agreed to go halfs on the moving company.

Not second guessing, but....mixed emotions. I've spent a lot of my life with this woman.

~opt

I'm sorry opt - it's got to hurt. Hard to believe how these things evolve. It's amazing to me that the distance from 'He's just a friend' to her moving out is so short. Like Limbo's WW, she will experience a fall. The 'magic dust' is going to go away, and she's going to realize what she's lost. Sad.

Let us know how it goes the next few days. I'll be thinking about you, my friend. Knock down a couple of root bears - it will help.

Linus,
thanks friend.
The ckickens are already coming home to roost. I'm being cordial, but when I walk away I recite my new chant in my head "NOT my Problem." --it's only my problem when it becomes my kids' problem, then we deal.

anyway, thanks for checking in. i'm over on Divorce board now
"Another D Story."
A post stays up at the top there for 3 days, lol.

Cheers.
opt