Bubbles, I think Prisca is saying he can't DEMAND she work without killing her love for him. The situation they are in right now is untenable. Demands won't make it better and won't restore love. This is what POJA is for. They need to brainstorm a lot of possible solutions to their current financial situation and find one they BOTH are happy with.

Right now I see Cali has found his 'One, True Solution'to their financial situation and it's that or nothing. Since his wife isn't on board with it, then it's all her fault. He never got her enthusiastic support for his 'One, True Solution' and so, of course, she isn't putting much effort into it though she may have verbally agreed.

I think Think (hehehe) has laid out several viable options that they should consider. More than the financial situation, they need to repair their love for each other, and as Cali is the one here - he's the one that gets to do the brunt of the work.

No. Cali being a slave to 3 jobs or his wife being forced to work are not the only options here, as many have already shown. They need to POJA and find an option they are both happy with.

In the meantime, Cali DEMANDING that his wife get a job, and punishing her by refusing to meet her EN until she gives in to his demand, is a major LB and is killing her love for him. Your insistence that if she cares for him, she'll get a job, only adds fuel to his Selfish Demands. What Marriage Builders concept are you using to support the argument that she should give into his abuse and make such a sacrifice?

Cali, I seriously doubt you're in the state of withdrawal, which Dr. Harley describes as


Instead, it sounds like you are in the state of conflict:


If anybody's in withdrawal, it sounds like it may be your wife, and she's not going to come out of it unless you make some major changes in yourself. Since you are the one that is here, and she's not, you're going to have to be the one who puts forth the most effort right now.

If you want to save your marriage, start following the Marriage Builders plan to the letter. STOP LOVE BUSTING. And start taking care of your wife's Emotional Needs.

(quotes are from A Summery of Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts)

/TJ

Prisca, just want to say I been thinkin' bout ya! It's great to see you in here giving advice. It's awesome to see the progress you and Markos are making. (((Prisca))).

/end TJ

Cali - I agree it doesn't sound like you're in Withdrawal (as Harley defines it). Sounds like you'd like to be there though.

I would urge you to really think outside the box and brainstorm without abandon different ways out of your situation. And really focus on building love with your wife. The problems you are having aren't financial, they're marital. If you get your marriage on track you will have to tools to overcome any obstacle TOGETHER.

We have both been irresponsible with financial planning. I lost my life insurance during the business failures and have non currently. She has not put in a qualifying quarter of work for Social Security in over ten years and is not likely to quantify herself. I am just starting to see the dire nature of our financial picture.

During our conversation yesterday, she keeps justyfying that my son has a 4.0+ GPA, a number of AP courses he has passed and has a 2100+ SAT score. He will have his choice of which UC or CS school he would like to attend, and this is worth the self sacrifice. I argue, that we have very smart kids, and there is no motivation in the world that would make our kids achieve like they are unless they want to achieve.

As for moving, that is very complicated, and we both agree its not a very viable option.

1. DS17 would like to finish his senior year in High School. He has finally made a social network that was stunted by attending three elementary schools by fifth grade. Worst case is he could move in with my parents for a senior year, but that is STILL BREAKING up the family.

2. We moved to Los Angeles due to both my parents having diabetes, my dad having heart problems and subsequently a stroke two years ago. We currently live about five miles away from them and if I moved out of the LA area any care would be burdened on my younger brother. Her parents have passed away. Moving to a closer location for my job would not necessarily find cheaper housing. Moving to Birmingham, AL where my corporate office is not a fantastic choice either of us would consider as that would essentially abandon DS17.

3. I would consider a job search for myself, but it is contingent of my wife working full time. The reasons are that I am qualified to do my current job and am doing it well. If I were to job search, I take the chance I may not fit as well with the new job. If I am the only one with health insurance and I do not fit with the new job, we both could be out of jobs and I have not health insurance. We have discussed this plan for over two years that I would look for work closer if she has a health insurance plan I could be under. Bottom line is I am not willing to take a risk on a new job with just my one egg in the basket right now. Jobs 2 and previous part time job 3 do not have health insurance attached to it. The last time I was on a private plan with Kaiser in LA it was over 1,000 per month to insure the family. This was a small business plan with no pre existing requirements. I no longer believe I could qualify for insurance until Obama care come online.

The kids are smart, have them start roping in scholerships now. Also, Obama is big on education and has some grants going, etc. If they start looking now, they will be ready when college comes. I put myself thru college working "at the college" full time and taking night classes. College was nearly free that way.

You can start gearing your kids up to do this type of thing for colleges they want to go to. You wont have to pay a dime.

Work study is also a good way to get thru college. Grants, scholorships and even school loans (if they have to for part of it) and work study makes it possible for kids to get thru.

I know that respectful discussions have to happen regarding your wife going back to work. But the point I have been making is that if you are going to live an expensive lifestyle, then both spouses have to work.

It is not fair for ONE spouse to ALWAYS have to support the family financially and the other healthy and able to work, other spouse. This is not fair.

Hi Bubbles, and thanks for the input.


As for my glucose control, it has been fantastic in 2010. I test 4 times a day as a type 2. My 60 day before breakfast average is 89. I test two hours after each meal and those numbers are slightly higher. My last A1c was 4.9. Feb was 6.6 and I had been 9.9 when I finally went to an endocrinologist back in December 2009. I have lost 17 pounds since December 2010 and have about 10-12 more to go. My total cholesterol went from 193 to 107 as of Feb 2010 including hdl going up. I walk / run 40+ minutes almost every day including all 31 days in March. I feel I have a good grasp on my health today, that is why I quit working job number 3 in January.

You are destroying your marriage with this attitude. You have decided what the solution is all on your own and then DEMAND that she get on board or she will be PUNISHED.

How's that working for ya, friend? I understand completely why she "agrees" to your demands. She is backed into a corner and is given no choices. You aren't interested in her feelings about this. I agree you have a problem, but you are making the problem WORSE by forcing your unilateral "solutions" on her and are about to add a new problem to the mix with your approach: a FAILED MARRIAGE.

What needs to happen here is a search for a solution that makes you BOTH happy. And the emotional blackmail needs to stop. Blackmailing your wife when she doesn't comply with your dictates is about as abusive as it gets.

Did you stop eating carbohydrates?

bubbles, what does one person's idea of "fairness" have to do with anything? "Fairness" is a renters term. For him to decide what is FAIR and hold a gun to her head to enforce this "fairness" is not fair and will destroy their marriage. I bet she can't stand the sight of him right now.

They are BOTH in a terrible situation and the solution is not to make either of them do something against their will. A better solution is to find a solution about which they are BOTH enthusiastic.

Yes I limit myself to less than 120 grams of carbohydrates a day. The only reason I can eat that many carbs is due to the amount of exercise I am doing. If I stopped my daily cardio I would likely need to intake less than 60 carbs a day to keep by glucose under control. Less if my bg is running higher. More if I start having readings below 65 for my safety. My diet has substantially changed due to my diabetes.

And yes, there are many days when I test hi that I have zero carb (leafy greens excepted, they have a very small amount) intake until my body balances back to acceptable readings.

Bubbles, have you read Dr. Harley's article on the "fairness" of the emotional need for physical attractiveness? It's a different need, but I think the same concept applies:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5502_qa.html


It sounds like if the poster's wife has an emotional need for financial support, that your solution would be to tell her to just not have an emotional need for financial support any more. It doesn't work that way, according to Marriage Builders.

Of course, the poster might have an emotional need for financial support, but even if so, demands are a love busting way to try to get it and so will be harmful to the marriage and to the poster's long-term marital happiness. And fueling his resentment by telling him his wife is in the wrong will only serve to help him justify demands in his mind.

The Marriage Builders approach would be to follow the policy of joint agreement: never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement with your spouse.

As a reminder to everybody, be sure and read this paragraph at the very top of the page:

You are right, I will not risk the current financial well being of my kids over an emotional need for my wife.

I will also not jeopardize my life over an emotional need for my wife. I will choose keeping myself healthy over my marriage with my wife if those are my only two choices.

OK Marcos, I accept your explanation of the MB POJA concepts. So, lets look at "What is good for the goose is good for the gander"


What if Mr Confused NEVER wanted to work two or three jobs. What if he never wants to work at all. Did they POJA HIM WORKING? What if he has an emotional need for finances to be paid by his wife working?

Did Mr Confused just accidently get roped into working all these years even though it has never been POJA'D?

What if Mr Confused wants a break from working, from work he never ever agreed to do for his whole life!

I say, both people need to stop working and POJA how they are going to support the family together.

Why should one spouse be allowed to laze around at home with older kids in school just because she roped the other spouse into supporting all of them financially even if it kills him!

THAT IS NOT A POJA

IT IS A PRISON SENTENCE FOR THE SPOUSE WHO HAS TO WORK FOR LIFE BECAUSE THE OTHER ONE WONT DO IT TO HELP OUT.

Bubbles, you did not answer this:

That is certainly an option that could be considered during the brainstorming session of POJA.

What are you talking about Prisca. Who said his wife shoud give ionto any abuse? Is there abuse here???

Dr. Harley classifies Selfish Demands as abuse, which is exactly what he is doing to her. You are adding fuel to his Selfish Demands by insisting that his wife should work. So I ask again, what Marriage Builders concept are you using to support the argument that she should give into his abuse and make such a sacrifice?

It is NOT A SELFISH DEMAND at all. His desire to not work three jobs and be the only one supporting the family IS NOT SELFISH.