Bit,

I can totally see your point.

The wedding ring stays on. at all times. from this point forward. I am very much unavailable.

I am going to get started on the Questionnaires asap.

Thanks!

I have a question...

My H is in the habit of doing something which I feel is not right:

When he's angry with me (as he is now because he discovered I snooped into his cell phone and then I lied about how I found the inappropriate text message exchange between him & "pretty lady"...I actually think it's FOG / or feigned outrage to take the focus off his the text messages...But I don't wanna DJ ) Anyway...when he's angry, he will greet my son enthusiastically & then say a half hearted hello to me and speak to me curtly while speaking to my son kindly - often in the same sentence / conversation. Now, mind you, for the past few days with all the SF he has been waiting for me @ the door with a hug & kiss combo and has been ultra friendly and then today he does THAT.

He said he thinks my son doesn't see. I believe he is showing my son how to treat his future wife! I mentioned that to him & said "Kid's aren't blind, Mr Chris." I reminded him that he said he didn't want the same old marriage. I said I didn't want the same old marriage either and that this behavior is part of that same old marriage. I asked him to consider trying something new. "Will you consider trying something new?"

I believe I made a thoughtful request. Can you tell me if I can polish that up a bit or did I do OK?

Well, that sounds like a reasonable thoughtful request to me. I think you handled it well in expressing your dislike of his action.

I'm curious to see if others share my view, or if they will find a critique that I am missing.

Yes...I am eaqer to see what the other vets say

Just now, I took this a step further: I printed out a copy of the EN & the LB Questionnaires and I asked him to return to me tomorrow. I said I was giving these to him in an effort to have a "different marriage" as he put it so well before. I told him these will help me do my part of that...if we do the same things, we will get the same results, and then we'll end up right back in the same spot. He agreed to return them to me tomorrow.

I pointed something else out: I asked him if he noticed that whenever he wanted or needed to talk about something - for example, his work situation or his hopes for a new position - I am always very receptive to that? He said yes. I said - I feel that you are not receptive to me when I need to talk.

He immediately launched into a blame-a-thon. He said that I approach him at the wrong times...when he's watching TV, ect. He NEVER interrupts me when I am on the computer or watching TV. I said I wish he would interrupt me because I'd like us to talk more. I asked him when a good time to approach him to talk would be. He started to mimic / mock me and use hostile body language and then he asked me to leave. I stated I would not leave, do not mock me it's disrespectful. I need to know when we can talk. I told him that for us to have a different marrriage, we need to talk with each other and it can't be one sided. We should schedule time to talk - half an hour every day. He was nasty but he asked what time. I thought about it and said 8 p.m. He asked where (and not in a nice way). I said the formal living room.

I also touched on the subject of why he's acting so hostile. I suggested that perhaps he was still angry about me looking @ his cell phone messages or lying to him. He said he was just tired. I said "Being tired is not an excuse for being mean to your wife. If I approach you to talk and you're tired, please tell me you're tired and you'd rather not talk right now."

So...This is my post convo ramble:

I seem to be in the part of my Plan where I am testing out trying to get him on board with MB and I am trying out a few thoughtful requests as well. The danger is: It's been a good 4 weeks for me and MB...I think he is in Conflict, but I think I may be close to going into Withdrawl myself. He recently let me know that he doesn't want a divorce...He said "I'm not going anywhere."... so I believe the time to do this is now...using his statement about wanting a different marriage seems to make sense to me.

At first it took a huge amount of self restraint not to say "Screw you buster! I deserve better than this. I am beautiful and smart and I'll move on!" Gosh - he was being so mean, nasty, and disrespectful to me in that last conversation. He treated me like I was an annoying bug...But I thought back to what Markos said about trying to see the world through my spouse's eyes. He is not happy with himself or the lack of respect he gets at his job. He mentioned this morning that he needs to buy new jeans because all but one pair of his jeans are too small now. (And that one pair is getting small as well. He is not happy with how he looks. Yesterday I met up with him @ work and when I left this older woman who has been helping him & who he really likes & respects was saying how beautiful I am. (I got the feeling that other people may have said it too & he did not report that to me in a happy way.


Can me being attractive be a love buster?!


We now have new "friends" we met through our child's extracurricular activities & both couples have HUGE houses, one of them has an ELEVATOR in their new home lol!. Both husbands are successful...one is a lawyer with the McMansion / elevator and the other is at the top of the food chain where he works (can't say where) They have a lot of land with their home & my H likes to drive around their neighborhood and look at the beautiful houses there. We did that this evening before we visited them...

But you know what? We have a lovely house too; however, there is no elevator and it's not absurdly HUGE...Plus good news: Our home loan is in the green now...Could we have what the other 2 couples have? Heck yes - but my H had debts when we hooked up and we had to take care of that, so we started off behind these folks - who by the way are 10 years older than us. I believe that the debt thing plagues him to this day.

I wish he would be happy with what we have accomplished in our lives - which is nothing to sneeze at. We both have advanced degrees now & we both have good jobs, a wonderful child, generally good health...a good life. There will always be someone who has a bigger house or more money that you, you can't let things like that bug you. I am grateful for what we have and I love pulling into the driveway of the home he has made for us, and I started letting him know that more since I started MB.

The thing with or new friends is - I don't want to be either one of those wives. When we are together, I can see no love...I don't see hate, but I am not seeing love and affection. They are clearly roommates and caretakers of the kids and that is all. I want a loving marriage and I am not willing to put up some phoney front and buy more and more things + a bigger and bigger home which is full of "stuff" but no love!

He seems to be in this mental spot where he's decided to stay married to me but he will be distant or even mean in private & in front of our son...When we're out, he'll play the dutiful hubby role to a tee. And, oddly, he is always watching me when he thinks I am not looking. I feel that he is doing the good husband and father thing publicly - especially in front of our new and more affluent "friends", but he's not really going to talk to me too much or conect with me in private...He'll do "things" for me like paint the house, buy me things, and take care of the yard...but he'll neglect me. NO WAY. I want love.

Now that I know it's possible, I want LOVE and I know I deserve it! The thing which just occurred to me too is this: Either he can work with me and give me LOVE or I will eventually end it with him. I am working on myself and LOVE will come to me with someone else - especially since I am learning how to be a better person and I am learning from MB how to be a good wife.

Chris, I don't know how anyone can afford a house in NOVA. I have lots of family there.

I think that my attractiveness (especially the way I dress) is a LB for my husband. I think I posted this on my thread. A lot has gone on lately, I've been writing too much and can't keep track.

Basically the same thing as you. My husband is insecure about how he looks and dreses, and my "put togetherness" even in jeans and Ts seems to add to it. Well, he could go out and buy himself some new clothes. He could shave every day. He could cut down on his food intake and do a bit of exercise. Those are all choices my husband could make, but he doesn't. So I don't have a whole lot of sympathy.

My husband also does the mocking thing. It is really irritating. I look forward to a time when I can share openly and honestly with my husband about these kinds of LB.

Chris, you don't sound like withdrawal to me, lots of Conflict, LOL. When you get to withdrawal, you won't want him to talk to you, I think it's be like, "I don't like when he talks to me, anyway." What do you think? Especially the part where you say, "I wish he would be happy with what we have accomplished in our lives - which is nothing to sneeze at." MB is about making thoughtful requests about behaviors, not being annoyed that they don't *think* they way you want them to. There's plenty of room in a MB in-love marriage, for folks to think lots of things, while they are taking the actions that bring them more and more in love with each other. But I know for me when I'm in withdrawal, I'm not wishing he'd think differently, it's more like at that time I could care less what he thinks. What do you think?

It's okay, you're doing the right things, like the thoughtful requests, sharing your O&H. It'll get easier. I try to keep up, but I didn't catch where you told him about the text messages, I thought you're supposed to keep quiet while you look, but I know you have an SAA thread, too, so I trust you are getting the advice you need already.

Yes Ma'am - I had a mental breakdown of sorts and outted myself to him re/ the text messages. I also did something dumb in a bookstore.

The SAA folks performed a radical lobotmy on me - no anesthesia. And, they hooked me up with snooping.

I know I am not IN Withdrawl, but I'm afraid I am headed that way because I no longer fear the possibility that we may get divorced.

Income lol!


I'm with you on this. He could eat better & exercise, plus get more sleep - but he will not.

I am not a size 3 and i am not drop dead stunning, but I get attention from a wide variety of males...just not the one who matters to me


I think it's disrespectful. I shared that thought with him and asked him to stop. Did you do that?

No. I'm not really ready to go whole hog sharing LB. He knows what the main ones are (even though he doesn't use the word LB). I have protective measures for myself from the verbal stuff.

His main need appears to be Appreciation, and those who have that EN are also very sensitive of criticism of any type. And I am not able to give criticism in a very compassionate way much of the time.

At some point I will probably try to have a conversation with him about the value of complaining in a marriage, but I need to wait until the time is right.

Have you looked in on how my sexual stuff is progressing? I'd love to hear your thoughts now that I've shared more of the details.

I have been reading for sure..I just don't know how to advise you. I am ashamed to say I am not very knowledgeable about sexual probs.

Nothing to be ashamed of. Be grateful!

Chris, I saw the coffeeshop thing. I had a similar experience, not taking off my ring, but a guy in my group shared in such an open way, looking me right in the eye while sharing some really intimate stuff, and it was such a stark contrast to how I felt so alone and insignificant in my marriage at that time. It freaked me out, and after I went to the drugstore and got some of those cake things, LOL. I stopped giving hugs when everyone else gave hugs, and I felt good, like I can see my weak spots and protect them. I think it's okay to acknowledge you have a weak spot, so you can use the knowledge to fortify it.

And it was a huge step for me to discuss my weak spots with my H, too. I caught up on your other thread, and see why this isn't the time for you two to have this discussion, but I look forward to the day when you and your H will have all kinds of intimate conversations. Already with the commute, you are off to a great start.

Thanks NED.

The co-commute is over & honestly - I am glad. He was using it as a time to vent his work probs with me and not giving me very much opportunity to talk about the things I wanted / needed to.

I actually addressed this with him last night (We both want a different marriage, so let's try different things. Have you noticed I have been very receptive to what you need to talk about? Well, I don't feel that from you.)

The conversatioon wasn't entirely respectful from him to me (you can read this in the posts just before this one) but, in the end we agreed to schedule 30 minutes each evening for reciprocal conversation.

I like this idea much better than me similing and serving as an emotional dumping ground in the car.

At this point I am making thoughtful requests becasue I am just about at the end of my "angel" phase - especially in light of that bookstore incident. He needs to come on board with MB asap.

I don't think men like it much when we tell them what WE are doing RIGHT and what THEY are doing WRONG.

Next time, just ask him for what you need.

"How would you feel about scheduling some for us to be together every night? I really like talking to you and telling you what's going on with me."

Telly,

No one (male or female) likes that LOL...

I can certainly see your point with the first conversation where I definitely expressed this:


I thought it was OK because I didn't compare his behavior to mine and Ikept it very short. No one likes to be lectured...but it could be perceived as preachy. Point well taken


The truth: I don't really like talking to him at this point. That would have been a blatant lie and inaccurate feedback (dishonesty of the emotional variety). Basically rewarding him with flattery for AOing me - cursing, mocking, raising his voice,and not allowing me the time to tell him what is going on with me. "Yeah I like that. Please give me more."



As for the second conversation, here are my issues: He is disrespectful during many conversations, he even MOCKED me (in sing songy voice) in that particular conversation. He monopolizes the conversation (it's all about the crappy people @ work who disrespect him) and many times -especially when the conversation takes a controversial turn - he'll start cursing and raising his voice...which he did that time too. And I responded with a request to stop.

One of my LBs is dishonesty (emotional dishonesty). I read in the Love Busters book that emotional dishonesty denies your spouse accurate feedback. When I first entered my Plan A I witheld how his LBs hurt me in order to build up some marrital currency. I think that I am at the point in my Plan A where I can slowly begin to introduce him to certain MB concepts as a primer for getting him to come to the next MB Weekend and / or agree to sessions with Dr. H.

In this situation, I believe that I needed to give him feedback on my emotional reaction to his behavior without using accusatory language and DJs - which I did via "I feel that ...._____" followed by the request.

I am thinking that from this point forward if I am faced with a situation with my H where I feel uncomfortable being emotionally honest, I need to remain silent rather than pretend to like what's happening (which is what I have done for the past 9 years) and I need to pause...take the time to think it through...find a way to give my spouse accurate feedback without DJing or SDing.

Tonight we are going to see a movie andlater we'll have our first session of 30 minutes to talk.

What should I talk about?
What topics should I avoid?

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5056_qa.html

My openers:

"Tell me about your feelings today."
"Did you write in your journal today?" and if she hasn't, "If you had, what would you have written about?"
"What was the best thing that happened to you today?"
"What plans did you make recently? How can I help you with those plans?"

Just a few thoughts. Works well for me, YMMV.