Does that include stuff I use to do when we first met like make her CD's of music, buying flowers, cards etc. I really was a good guy at one point and tried my hardest to treat her like a queen the first part of our relationship. I have made myself quite aware of my feelings lately with dealing with my depression and despite having female friends still feel a very strong love for my WW despite her actions. I don't want another woman and I'm not looking either. What is MB mean? I try to say nothing to coworkers I wouldn't say to their face and that includes my WW. Having said that...I will admit I have said some not nice things in the past to her...and I'm sorry and feel guilty about that.

MB is marriagebuilders.

Yes, there is obviously a lot she loves about you. Try to show her the guy she fell in love with. She may not appreciate it at first because the OW is meeting some of her needs. But you are most likely meeting some of them too. The trick is to figure out what needs the OW is meeting and start meeting them yourself.

It's hard to be there for her, to talk t oand to listen to her and give her the support when we are separated and don't spend very much time together. My WW basically makes plans with the OW and is constantly with her...and I'm not lying when I say she has spent the last 35 consecutive days together which includes at work and weekends. Do I dare ask for a date with my WW? I feel like I'm just standing by and only dealing with the kids everytime she phones me.

Asking for a date won't work. You need to be a steady Eddy and just keep plugging along.

If you can email her, just continue doing that, letting her know what the kids and you are doing, telling her about work, whatever.

When her parents aren't so focused on you, maybe they will start realizing that the situation with the OW is a little bit odd.

By the way, how are you doing with the drinking?

Haven't had an once or a beer and no huge cravings. That's with ETOH in the house and ppl over and having a drink in front of me etc.

Not so sure about not asking her for a date. Do you think Recreational Companionship (RC) is one of her top ENs? It usually isn't for women, but all people are different.

I think you should plan a fun outing that you know she'd enjoy, invite her (she'll say no), then go anyway and have a blast. Take a couple of photos and email them to her with a short note saying something like "Too bad you couldn't make it, you would have loved this."

That way she can't tell herself that you're no fun to be with. The point is to make yourself an attractive option right now.

I don't know what ETOH is but it sounds dumb to me to be around people that are drinking. And to have them in your own house seems really dumb. You can't control what goes on elsewhere (though you can leave) but you most certainly can control what goes on in your home.

ETOH is just short for alcohol...I have no urges whatso ever to dirink even around ppl who are. I am so concerned about my health and overall well being right now for myself and kids that I could careless if i ever drink again right now. I did tak the kids to the zoo on the week-end I will send her some pics to show her that the kids and I had a great time. I think doing stuff might be one of her EN as she complained that we never took dates together. She seems to be spending all her free time with the OW. March break was skiing....WW hasn't done that since teens (she did have kids with her too). But WW goes to Toronto to hang with OW and her friends all weekend long.

I just had to go to my in-laws and pick some info up to do our taxes. I don't understand how my WW can speak to me in such an unemotional, calm manner as if everything is ok. It seems as though she is fine with the situation and doesn't care that ppl are hurting, ie the kids and myself. She seems as though this is ok and she's just going to move on and forget about it cause she's not "in pain" anymore and forget about the family we had. Is there a way to make her understand that we had something great at one point and that it can be achieved again? And that we should try for the kids sake too? I am so baffled by her behaviour...but I guess she could say the same about me all these years and when I was severely depressed.

she doesn't even seem bothered that she doesn't have kids for most of the Easter w/e. Probably cause she already has plans for friday night. She has never had to be alone or alone with the kids as the OW or her parents have always been there with her.

She is behaving like the typical wayward, so don't even waste time trying to figure it out.

I like Turtle's idea about finding something you know she would love, inviting her, and then going alone if she declines. Then be sure to let her know how fun it was. You can even tell her that you are sorry that the two of you didn't do date nights, or something like that.

Your wife reminds me of my grown son's (28) girlfriend. It is not an affair or anything, but she has 2 kids and dumps them constantly to go out with my son. Big warning flags to me, because that is not the real life they would have together.

So I have invited her to my sides family get together and my son invited her to stay at the family home the night the easter bunny comes but surprise surprise she won't be able to make it as I guess she needs more "support from her friend".(this is how her parents see the relationship with the OW) So now she isn't even looking after her kids needs. I can't stand watching this. And then to get blamed cause I went away for March break and spent some money trying to look after myself yet she can't account for $1200.00 and now is nuying leather furniture off her brother for our house, or maybe another house...who knows. I never thought I could have these emotions about her and so strongly...she really is driving me away and towards hating her...why oh why is she doing this. Is it so I snap and just divorce her and then it's "my fault/doing"? I am so frustrated with her as this is totally not the woman I married and loved. Does praying help to bring her back to normal? I'm willing to try anything for heavens sake!

So after speaking with my WW about being invited to my side of the family easter get together...she of coarse declined and declined to stay at the family home with the kids Easter night as she will be with the OW. She replied in a text "Thank you for invite, I hope u don't think this is easy for me or that I am trying to make things worse or hard for u, we r both dealing with lots of emotions, I told the kids they could text or call. Thanks again. Say hello to everyone for me." So how do I reply to that without using MB and sticking to plan A? I'm so sad that she is chosing her friend over her family.

torsade,

I am not meaning to jump on you but I see two main areas in which you could really help yourself. Boundaries, and disrespectful judgments. DJs also mean trying to change someone else to be the way we think they should be.



I don't know if you misunderstood me or if you are deliberately twisting my words. I said no rides/lunches/etc when the only other person is a female. A single other guy, or a group is fine. Absolutely men can resist the urge for starting an affair while with a woman, just as men can resist the addiction of cocaine. But why play with it? Why take that first step? There are myriad reasons NOT to, and no good ones FOR a married man to spend one-on-one time with a woman other than his spouse.

Have all the female friends you want. Talk to all the women you want. Eat lunch with any woman you choose. As long as the two of you are not alone. You don't need the possibility of the temptation, you don't need the gossip.


It's that if you never take the first step toward an affair you can never take the subsequent ones. It's just a common sense precaution. Save gas with a guy, or with a trio. But not with one female co-rider.



I'd like to re-emphasize that I am NOT trying to come down on you. I see you judging her left and right, and that will kill any love she has for you in no time flat. Please please PLEASE stop the DJs! That is very important.

Also, you are trying to change her, to get her to see things your way. This is extremely normal. Especially for a BS; you want the WS to wake up, to come to their senses, to be "normal" again. I know you must have read it here before, but I'll say it again: You cannot change her. You can only change you.

Sure, she's a frustrating alien. Sure, you'd like her to be different. But focusing on that gets you nowhere. It wastes your energy, gets you in a bad mood, and withdraws big-time from her LB$. Instead, focus on being the best husband she can be. Do this regardless of what she's doing. Be consistent. Keep on plugging away at YOUR PLAN regardless of what she does.

BTinBL has a thread here and his extremely entitled Wayward Wife is making noises like she's not real sure anymore that she wants a divorce. TB has done a rock solid Plan A for quite a while now. His WW has been all over the map, but TB has done a good job of keeping his eye on his goal, and focusing on HIS PLAN instead of what his WW was doing. Look what she said only days ago:

At one point, she said she feels like I've done a 180. She said there were times that she almost HOPED I'd screw up to really justify her exit, but I kept doing the right things. I never gave her that OUT. If this gets saved, this will sum up my success. For any newbie, never lose sight of YOUR SIDE OF THE FENCE. Pull every damn weed you see. Nobody's perfect, but the more you pull, the better off you'll be -- with or without your spouse.

Please think about that.
Quit judging your WW.
Quit trying to change her.
Quit focusing on her.

Focus on YOUR PLAN.

I have read the above and I'm thinking and pondering what was said...not that I don't trust you turtlehead, I do appreciate you taking the time to read and answer my posts, but I don't know who you are or anyone on here for that fact. Is there anyone else who agrees, or has their own opinion on what Turtlehead is saying? And what about how I reply to the text msg that is above the last post? What should I say to her without using LB's and stay with my plan? I really do appreciate anything ppl have to offer and I do look at it very objectively.

Okay, FTR I agree with Turtlehead. While it is true that you don't know us, we don't know you either. We are not professionals and we do this because we believe in DrH and MB. We try to help where we can and I must say that having been around here for 5 months, I have seen MANY posts by Turtlehead and I don't remember disagreeing with what was posted.

What exactly do you WANT to respond to her? We can help you tweak things if you ask for specifics.

Personally, I would just go, have fun and let the kids tell her about the fun that they had. TMO.

Turtlehead gives great, thoughtful advice. And the thing is, you are the one here for advice - your wife is too fogged out to seek to save the marriage. If she were posting the advice would be much different. But she is off with the OW.........

Please don't anyone take my questions the wrong way as I have stated I truely do appreciate any advice and stories ppl have shared...as most of you have stated you have been through somewhat similar situations at some point so I'm sure you can also appreciate my confusion, trust issues, lack of self confidence, need for clarification and guildance as to not screw this situation up any more than it already is. I think I shall just leave her reply as is and carry on with my life with the kids and let them tell her what a good time it was. Thank-you.

I'm with turtlehead on this completely. Thank you for posting this. I've been here for a few months and after reading that post realized that I was focusing too much on changing my WW instead of concentrating on me.

Sorry, didn't mean to threadjack. Torsade, you are getting some very sound advice.

Torsade, I think you're wise to ask for other opinions. Your marriage is a BIG DEAL and you'd be a fool to just take the word of some stranger on some internet board and blindly live your life by what they suggested. So kudos to you for wanting to consider all angles and all possibilities. As Scottie mentioned, none of us are professionals. We're just normal folks who have been there, done that. Our advice is worth exactly what you paid for it

I think you should reply to her text. Conversation is almost always a top EN of women. If you do reply, you will probably say the wrong thing. That's just to be expected, because your wife is wayward and nothing you can say right now will be "right" in her eyes. So what. Converse with her anyway.

Because if you *don't* converse with her, you bet OW is, all the time. WW will tell herself that she reached out to you and you rebuffed her. That you aren't there for her. That you are cold and uncaring. That you are hateful. That you keep her at a distance. Your silence will give WW all sorts of ammunition to paint you as an intolerable bad guy.

So yeah, reply to her. Ignore the garbage about how it isn't easy, lots of emotions, blah blah blah... no relationship talk in plan A! I'd just say something like "You're welcome. I'll be happy to pass along a 'hello' from you".

Then at the 'do' text her and say "Told everyone hello from you; they say hi and you were missed." Take some pics.

Then the next day send her an email with a couple of the best pics of her favorite people. Be upbeat in your email and talk about what a great day it was. How perfect the weather, how good the food, how pleasant all the conversation.

Then in a day or two invite her to do something else with you.

Slight t/j - Thanks Turtle - you explain the details so well. I always get the idea, but you seem to really understand the "how?".