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Hi. I was disturbed to learn that some women have husbands that grope thier bodies in clumsy, disrespectful, ignorant and unwelcome ways.

I have no answers to this but I do know that people can change sometimes and I wanted to have a place where women can share and figure out solutions for this.

Figuring out how to change this about thier husbands could improve thier marriages. I know we are not supposed to try and change others but hey....this is IMPORTANT to change!

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I think a well-placed knee does the trick smile

Just kidding, I'm looking forward to the answers.

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Groping is an annoying habit, so you would deal with it like any other AH. You tell your spouse honestly how much it bothers you, how much it depletes your LB, and if it won't be addressed by them, you state your boundaries: "I will not be sexually assaulted. If you continue to assault me in this matter, I will seek legal protection from that behavior."

It IS a crime. If a stranger walked up to a stranger and grabbed their breast, they'd go to jail. It's no different just because you're married.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
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The answer is to tell him to knock it off. It is a lovebuster that falls under annoying habits.

When our spouse is doing something like groping, it is up to us tell him it is a lovebuster and causing lovebank withdrawals. In my marriage, it was causing sexual aversion. I hate being groped so much that I was avoiding even walking by him. Thats pretty bad! And since he doesn't want me to have an aversion to him, he stopped!

Like I told him: Keep your mitts off the merchandise! sigh


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I'm struggling with my own feelings on this with my H because I *did* tell him how I felt about it and what effect it had on my feelings toward him, and he *did* stop for a long time. And now he's doing it again.

Intellectually, I know it's a bad habit that he's just sliding back into now that he's not feeling the threat of the D paperwork anymore. That I should give him the benefit of the doubt that of course he's not intentionally doing something that causes me pain and aversion to him.

But even when he does it, and it hurts I tell him that it hurts, to please stop doing that, and he STILL DOES IT.

So my emotions are screaming that he is doing what he wants to do, and doesn't give a rat's patootie what I want or what I feel, or worse, he wants the control of me even if it hurts me.

I should NOT (I know, there's a should, but hey that's where I'm at right now) have to keep telling him over and over and over, and keep feeling like this. Especially when it trips abuse memories (and YES I've told him THAT too).


"When people show you who they are, believe them." -- Maya Angelou
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I would love to understand this also....in a way I do...as they are physically attract to you and have sex on their mind so they just "react" and think it must be a turn on for you also...I mean if I came up to my spouse and groped him he would LOVE IT and yes I have done this as it is not a LB for him....so I think they think it's a turn on for you cause it's a turn on for them....a misundertanding.....and yes a LB for me too.

Last edited by jewel14; 04/02/10 07:43 AM.
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AC,

too many words.

Next time he does it, turn towards him, look him squarely in the eye and say very firmly "Stop! That hurts"

Do it every single time, and when he stops, tell him how he CAN touch you. "Touch me gently."

He needs the clear stop sign, and then he'll need direction.

Do it every single time, and he'll get the message.


Me 42
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I don't mind groping from my H, but I'm with Telly. Use a few words and tell him it's not OK. It may take a few times, but he'll get it. Then you'll have to tell him what you do like. smile

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Telly, I *do* that.

Getting graphic here: He is boob obsessed. Specifically, with the nipples for some reason he can't or won't explain. And whether it's hormones, age, weight gain, or what, my breasts are way more sensitive and tender than they used to be. I am fine with him caressing or gently squeezing the breast itself, though it's still annoying if I'm in the middle of something else like trying to pour a drink in the kitchen. But if he flicks, tweaks, or otherwise messes with my nipples or the areola area, it is absolutely painful. So of course, he's obsessed with messing with my nipples. banghead

So when he does it, the actual interaction that happens is usually something like this:
{TAC grabs Mr.TAC's hand and tries to move it, and can't}
TAC: OUCH! That hurts!
MrTAC: No, it doesn't.
TAC: YES, it DOES. Stop doing that, please.
{Mr.TAC squeezes the nipple again before he lets go}
MrTAC: Ok, FINE.
TAC: I like it when you hold my breast, just please don't mess with the nipple.
MrTAC: That's not as much fun.
{MrTAC sulks off grumbling}

I don't know how to make it any plainer. twoxfour


"When people show you who they are, believe them." -- Maya Angelou
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How about the next time, handing him a bag that you packed for him, and tell him that you understand that he knows he is hurting you?

How about telling him that your extended family is coming over for lunch Sunday, and you're going to ask them for advice on how to handle this, because it's more than you can handle on your own anymore?

How about a conference call with your pastor and your H?

I know this is an embarassing thing, and would be hard. But if folks were going to hold him accountable, "So how'd you do with leaving TAC unharmed this week?" He might give that up while you don't hate him yet.

I'm so angry when I read this stuff. Groping wasn't an issue in my house, but other stuff that was also harmful to my marriage to put up with.


Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
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I had an issue w/ my H groping, too but thankfully, it never got to this point. (((TAC))))

It made me angry that he flat out tells you "no, it doesn't hurt". I feel like telling you to give him a knee in the groin and when he starts moaning and groaning, tell him "oh that doesn't hurt".

But that's not the answer.

I wouldn't get into a yes-it-does-no-it-doesn't tug of war.

Maybe hand him a list?

No touching in the kitchen while I'm engaged in domestic duties (my husband would do this all the time...when I told him it was highly annoying, he also sulked. Through MB, I learned to tell him when/where I would INSTEAD enjoy that kind of thing. It's worked, sort of.)

Keep moving his hand.

Keep saying OUCH.

And I like NEDs idea of handing him a packed bag if he won't abide by your wishes.

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My answer when I don't know what to do is usually humor. I even do this when my students are driving me crazy. It may not work, but sometimes I feel like a serious, Hallmark movie kind of talk makes things even bigger than they are.

Mr. Luri grabs or pinches or whatever
Luri - Back off bud
Mr. Luri doesn't listen
Luri - Mama ain't happy now
Mr. Luri - Why not? (or some man-type response)
Luri - if you want Mama to be happy, you need to kiss mama like you mean (adds a wink)

This way he gets that I don't like it AND I have just told him I need kissing.

It might not work, but it's hard to get into some tense issue if someone is being funny.

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Originally Posted by OurHouse
I feel like telling you to give him a knee in the groin and when he starts moaning and groaning, tell him "oh that doesn't hurt".

I'll tell a very old story - and keep in mind this is at least 2 years old, so this is NOT his current behaviour.

We're both trained in Krav Maga, which is a brutal self-defense school from Israel. But he's got a significant weight and strength advantage. I *could* get my point across physically, but one of us (probably both) would be seriously injured.

After I had a major knee surgery a couple years ago, and was still in a full locked leg brace and this contraption that would move the joint for me in bed, doped up out of my mind, he decided he would "feel me up". I wasn't having any, and put his hand in a pressure joint lock, thinking I would for once be able to *make* him stop. I came THISCLOSE to breaking his finger and *did* some minor damage to a ligament and he *still* didn't stop. He got MAD at ME for hurting him and later when we talked it out, I asked him why he didn't stop... he said he had decided what he was going to do and I wasn't going to stop him, no matter what I did.

So, no. A physical attack while it would be satisfying on many levels is NOT an option.

But this kind of memory stays with me, too. And when he starts exhibiting his old behaviour patterns, it makes me wonder if the last few months have just been a smoke screen to get me to drop the D, and I'll never have real peace in this marriage.

Last edited by TheAntiChick; 04/02/10 08:43 AM. Reason: spelling - GACK

"When people show you who they are, believe them." -- Maya Angelou
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A few Dr. Harley quotes on the subject;



Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
When we're annoyed, we usually consider others inconsiderate, particularly when we've explained to them that their behavior bothers us and yet they continue to do it. It's not just the behavior itself, but the thought behind it -- the idea that they just don't seem to care.

But when our behavior annoys others, we soft sell the whole problem. It's just a little thing, we argue, so why make a federal case out of it? Why can't other people adjust?



Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
Taken together, your habits and activities define your entire lifestyle. And those habits and activities can be either enjoyable for both of you, or enjoyable for only one of you (those that are unpleasant for both of you are usually quickly relegated to the trash bin). They are like bricks of a house, where each one is either strong or weak. The strong bricks are habits and activities that make both of you happy, while the weak bricks make one happy at the other's expense. The entire house is your lifestyle, and if it's made up of weak bricks, it is likely to collapse.

A house made up of strong bricks will make each day enjoyable for both you and your spouse, and that, in turn, will help build your Love Bank accounts. But every annoying habit or independent behavior drives a wedge between you and your spouse, creating and sustaining incompatibility. If you find yourselves incompatible, it's probably because there are far too many weak bricks in your marriage. Replace them as soon as possible by making an effort to eliminate insensitive behavior.

But how should you go about changing your habits so that they are no longer annoying? It begins with the realization that whenever you do something that bothers your spouse, you are withdrawing love units. Tell each other that eliminating annoying habits is a high priority for both of you. And then ask each other what it is that annoys you the most, write it down, and go to work with a plan to eliminate whatever you find.

None of us likes criticism, so I encourage both of you to avoid pointing out each other's annoying habits unless you are both prepared to do something about it. It's an enemy of good conversation to blind-side each other with criticism, ruining your time together by talking about how much you annoy each other. Many couples spend so much of their time together being critical of each other that each experience is a nightmare. How long can that last? I want your time together to be as enjoyable as possible, and criticism will have you both running for cover. If one of you does something that annoys the other, it's okay to mention it. But then drop the subject until you are able to deal with the problem effectively.

Your approach to annoying habits should be organized with an agreed upon plan to eliminate whatever it is. Unless you have such a plan, all you will accomplish with your criticism is a loss of love units whenever you bring up the subject.





Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
Dishonesty strangles compatibility. To create and sustain compatibility, you must lay your cards on the table. You must be honest about your thoughts, feelings, habits, likes, dislikes, personal history, daily activities and plans for the future. When misinformation is part of the mix, you have little hope of making successful adjustments to each other. Dishonesty not only makes solutions hard to find, but it often leaves couples ignorant of the problems themselves.

There's another very important reason to be honest. Honesty tends to make our behavior more thoughtful. If we knew that everything we do and say would be televised and reviewed by all our friends, we would be far less likely to engage in thoughtless acts. Criminals would not steal and commit violent acts as much if they knew they would be caught each time they did. Honesty is the television camera in our lives. We know what we do, and if we are honest about what we do, we tend not to engage in thoughtless acts because we know those acts will be revealed-by ourselves.

In an honest relationship, thoughtless acts are usually corrected. Bad habits are nipped in the bud. Honesty keeps a couple from drifting into incompatibility-as incompatible attitudes and behavior are revealed, they can become targets for elimination. But if these attitudes and behavior remain hidden, they are left to grow out of control.

So many of the couples I've counseled have been confused as to what constitutes honesty in marriage, that I have created a policy to explain it. I call it the Policy of Radical Honesty, because so many think it's radical. But from my perspective either you are honest or you are dishonest. There is no middle ground.





Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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Originally Posted by TheAntiChick
Telly, I *do* that.

Getting graphic here: He is boob obsessed. Specifically, with the nipples for some reason he can't or won't explain. And whether it's hormones, age, weight gain, or what, my breasts are way more sensitive and tender than they used to be. I am fine with him caressing or gently squeezing the breast itself, though it's still annoying if I'm in the middle of something else like trying to pour a drink in the kitchen. But if he flicks, tweaks, or otherwise messes with my nipples or the areola area, it is absolutely painful. So of course, he's obsessed with messing with my nipples. banghead

So when he does it, the actual interaction that happens is usually something like this:
{TAC grabs Mr.TAC's hand and tries to move it, and can't}
TAC: OUCH! That hurts!
MrTAC: No, it doesn't.
TAC: YES, it DOES. Stop doing that, please.
{Mr.TAC squeezes the nipple again before he lets go}
MrTAC: Ok, FINE.
TAC: I like it when you hold my breast, just please don't mess with the nipple.
MrTAC: That's not as much fun.
{MrTAC sulks off grumbling}

I don't know how to make it any plainer. twoxfour

OH MY GOD...

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Thoughts:

Dr. Harley has a chapter on Annoying Habits in his "Love Busters" book. How would you feel about reading that with your husband and dealing with groping in the chapter on Annoying Habits? And dealing with his response to your statement that "it hurts" with the disrespectful judgment "No it doesn't"? Those are two separate Love Busters, and should be dealt with that way.

TMI alert below. If you are the type to accuse me of being prurient for sharing these kinds of details, don't click the "Show me!" button.

I love my wife's buttocks. I exhibit all the classic behaviors you associate with "groping", except for the pain part (I don't hurt her in any way if I can ever avoid it, and have always been that way). When we reached the chapter on Annoying Habits in "Love Busters", my wife listed "touching my butt in public" on her list. I chose that as one of the first three I wanted to change, right up there with "leaving gum wrappers on the floor next to the trash can" and "Leaving the shower curtain open after a shower".

Now, we've been married 15 years. I've had this annoying habit a long time. Changing it has been a struggle. This morning, for instance, we went to the supermarket very early to pick up donuts for breakfast (a rare treat, by the way...). She bent over to pick up something off a low shelf, and I moved in. I stopped myself and laid a hand on her back instead.

It's HARD to change these kinds of habits, guys. You might think "Hey, I told him, this is easy" but it's not. It takes patience, and diligence on enforcing boundaries both for the person trying to change their own annoying habit and the one who wants it changed. The other two habits I've dealt with soundly. This one is difficult.

Teach your partner how you'd like to be touched instead, and it goes a long way toward training a new habit. I now play with my wife's hair more in public. Touch is one of my Love Languages, and that kind of affection is something I have to give or I don't feel connected to her. Why not redirect those gropes into a touch you do enjoy and feel is appropriate in public?


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1 year after D-Day
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You need to have a PLAN of action instead of allowing emotions to cause a reaction!

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
Your approach to annoying habits should be organized with an agreed upon plan to eliminate whatever it is. Unless you have such a plan, all you will accomplish with your criticism is a loss of love units whenever you bring up the subject.





Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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Door & tst - Thanks, and I agree. I've put forth suggestions like "please hug me instead" because he is also a person who needs a lot of physical affection. It's not the touch I object to, it's the HOW.

If I talk to him when it's "not in the moment" he will agree with me and agree to the "plan". And then "forget" at the time. If I remind him or say "ouch" at the time, he sulks away.

He jokingly says he's entitled because he's my H. Or that because we don't have SF as often as he'd like (I am trying to accommodate, but he has a MUCH higher drive than I, and I'm fighting a lot of physical issues right now) that he's entitled because it's the only SF-type contact he gets.

I will be able to get this to stop again, for a while, by sitting him down, and saying a bunch of really harsh things to him like:
* you would kill any man who treated your daughter like this
* this behaviour triggers my abuse memories
* this behaviour is decreasing your SF because it kills my desire for you
* this behaviour is abusive
* I will not tolerate this, you will stop or you will leave

and that's exactly what I will do, because I *won't* tolerate it. What upsets me the most is that I have to KEEP having this same conversation with him, it's like a broken record I have to have with him every few months. The pattern has been that I say these things, he gets upset and then sulks for a bit and when he comes out of the sulk he acts like he is walking on eggshells around me for a couple of months, and then he starts backsliding on his behaviour until it reaches this point where I'm ready to physically hurt him, and it's NOT because I hold it in, I *DO* tell him that I don't like it and please stop... it's because he doesn't **GET IT** until I get harsh and make threats. I don't want to live my life with a man who only acts right under the threat of D. At some point the threat loses its impact and then I have to actually *do* it. And I swear on all that is holy to me, the next time my attorney files the paperwork, that's ALL she wrote. No take-backs.


"When people show you who they are, believe them." -- Maya Angelou
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I'll preface this post by saying that Mr. W is not an "annoying groper" - His touches have never hurt me physically...However, long ago, any touching signified SEX to him, so there was never just a hug - a hug always had to lead to more - I began to avoid him like the plague... frown

The practical solution that we came up with that has worked:

When Mr. W first arrives home from work, sex is NOT the first thing on his mind - he's just coming home from a long day to unwind - So he asked me if I would be willing to come and hug him then, because he felt sure that at that time he would be able to just hug me without anything sexual coming into play...

He was RIGHT! dance2

Doing this gets my need for affection and non-sexual touching met...Getting those needs met by Mr. W cause good feelings from me toward him...BECAUSE of the earlier non-sexual touching/affection [which give me feelings of being loved and respected] I feel FLATTERED [and turned on blush] by his sexual touches later...And NOW, because his SF need is being met with such gusto, affection and non-sexual touching occur more than just when he first arrives home - This has definitely been a win-win solution for us...

Mrs. W

***Note: When you work the MB program in it's entirety, romantic love is the natural outcome - it is FAR easier to consider the other person's feelings and to meet needs when you are in love - you fall romantically in love with your spouse when you spend AT LEAST 15 hours/week together meeting the four intimate ENs - Affection, Recreational Companionship, Intimate Conversation and Sexual Fulfillment - along with eliminating love busters - IN THE BEGINNING you just have to DO these things regardless of your feelings - because FEELINGS FOLLOW ACTIONS...

So a BIG KEY to having your spouse consider your feelings is getting them to fall romantically in love with you...[see above...wink]


FWW ~ 47 ~ Me
FBH ~ 50 ~ MrWondering
DD ~ 17
Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered

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