Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 5 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650
I
Member
Member
I Offline
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650
Sorted, thanks Pep.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650
I
Member
Member
I Offline
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650
LAYING PLANS

Sun Tzu said: The art of war is of vital importance to the State.

KILLING the affair is essential to recovery

On which side is discipline most rigorously enforced? #
Which army is stronger? Morally as well as physically.
On which side are officers and men more highly trained? (By MB!)
On which side is there the most absolute certainty that merit will be properly rewarded and misdeeds summarily punished?
By means of these considerations I can forecast victory or defeat.

All warfare is based on deception.
While the WS is active, be relaxed so they will be unsuspecting while you snoop. When in Plan A and B do not reveal MB plans or principles, your timescales or plans. Appear stronger than you are.

When able to attack, we must seem unable; When we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away, when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
Lay low and seem clueless so snooping will catch them off guard and exposure is done in a fell swoop

Hold out baits to entice the enemy.
Meet their ENs to lure them into position and disrupt the A. A plan B letter promising ENs will also entice them

If he is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him.
Make preparations for evasion - get legal and financial preparations completed ready for Plan B

If he is taking his ease, give him no rest.
Work Plan A hard, never giving the WS space to cheat or even think. If the A is exhausting it is likely to fail. In Plan B preparations make sure their lifestyle is difficult financially and domestically as much as you are able.

If his forces are united, separate them.
Informing the OMW or OWH will create a gulf that will be hard to recover from. If the AP and WS are part of a work team, or close group of friends ensure their groups are scattered by news of the A

"If sovereign and subject are in accord, put division between them."
Plan A lures the WS away from the AP by EN meeting, Plan B makes the WS depressed at losing BS and this will irritate the AP

Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected.
Surprise WS by showing up at the office for lunch, at bars, at events you were not expected at. Expose in a swift manner, snoop using methods the WS would not have considered.

These military devices, leading to victory, must not be divulged beforehand. #

Now the general who wins a battle makes many calculations in his temple ere the battle is fought. #
Chang Yu tells us that in ancient times it was customary for a temple to be set apart for the use of a general who was about to take the field, in order that he might there elaborate his plan of campaign.
The general who loses a battle makes but few calculations beforehand. Thus do many calculations lead to victory, and few calculations to defeat: how much more no calculation at all! It is by attention to this point that I can foresee who is likely to win or lose. #

Plan A and Plan B - never Plan C


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,123
Likes: 1
H
Member
Member
H Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,123
Likes: 1
A Letter from General George S. Patton to His Son

Quote
Dear George:

At 0700 this morning the BBC announced that the German Radio had just come out with an announcement of the landing of Allied Paratroops and of large numbers of assault craft near shore. So that is it.

This group of unconquerable heroes whom I command are not in yet but we will be soon�I wish I was there now as it is a lovely sunny day for a battle and I am fed up with just sitting.

I have no immediate idea of being killed but one can never tell and none of us can live forever, so if I should go don�t worry but set yourself to do better than I have.

All men are timid on entering any fight; whether it is the first fight or the last fight all of us are timid. Cowards are those who let their timidity get the better of their manhood. You will never do that because of your blood lines on both sides. I think I have told you the story of Marshall Touraine who fought under Louis XIV. On the morning of one of his last battles�he had been fighting for forty years�he was mounting his horse when a young ADC [aide-de-camp] who had just come from the court and had never missed a meal or heard a hostile shot said: �M. de Touraine it amazes me that a man of your supposed courage should permit his knees to tremble as he walks out to mount.� Touraine replied �My lord duke I admit that my knees do tremble but should they know where I shall this day take them they would shake even more.� That is it. Your knees may shake but they will always take you towards the enemy. Well so much for that.

There are apparently two types of successful soldiers. Those who get on by being unobtrusive and those who get on by being obtrusive. I am of the latter type and seem to be rare and unpopular: but it is my method. One has to choose a system and stick to it; people who are not themselves are nobody.

To be a successful soldier you must know history. Read it objectively�dates and even the minute details of tactics are useless. What you must know is how man reacts. Weapons change but man who uses them changes not at all. To win battles you do not beat weapons�you beat the soul of man, of the enemy man. To do that you have to destroy his weapons, but that is only incidental. You must read biography and especially autobiography. If you will do it you will find that war is simple. Decide what will hurt the enemy most within the limits of your capabilities to harm him and then do it. TAKE CALCULATED RISKS. That is quite different from being rash. My personal belief is that if you have a 50% chance take it because the superior fighting qualities of American soldiers lead by me will surely give you the extra 1% necessary.

In Sicily I decided as a result of my information, observations and a sixth sense that I have that the enemy did not have another large scale attack in his system. I bet my shirt on that and I was right. You cannot make war safely but no dead general has ever been criticised so you have that way out always.

I am sure that if every leader who goes into battle will promise himself that he will come out either a conqueror or a corpse he is sure to win. There is no doubt of that. Defeat is not due to losses but to the destruction of the soul of the leaders. The �Live to fight another day� doctrine.

The most vital quality a soldier can possess is SELF CONFIDENCE�utter, complete and bumptious. You can have doubts about your good looks, about your intelligence, about your self control but to win in war you must have NO doubts about your ability as a soldier.

What success I have had results from the fact that I have always been certain that my military reactions were correct. Many people do not agree with me; they are wrong. The unerring jury of history written long after both of us are dead will prove me correct.

Note that I speak of �Military reactions��no one is borne with them any more than anyone is borne with muscles. You can be born with the soul capable of correct military reactions or the body capable of having big muscles, but both qualities must be developed by hard work.

The intensity of your desire to acquire any special ability depends on character, on ambition. I think that your decision to study this summer instead of enjoying yourself shows that you have character and ambition�they are wonderful possessions.

Soldiers, all men in fact, are natural hero worshipers. Officers with a flare for command realise this and emphasize in their conduct, dress and deportment the qualities they seek to produce in their men. When I was a second lieutenant I had a captain who was very sloppy and usually late yet he got after the men for just those faults; he was a failure.

The troops I have commanded have always been well dressed, been smart saluters, been prompt and bold in action because I have personally set the example in these qualities. The influence one man can have on thousands is a never-ending source of wonder to me. You are always on parade. Officers who through laziness or a foolish desire to be popular fail to enforce discipline and the proper wearing of uniforms and equipment not in the presence of the enemy will also fail in battle, and if they fail in battle they are potential murderers. There is no such thing as: �A good field soldier:� you are either a good soldier or a bad soldier.

Well this has been quite a sermon but don�t get the idea that it is my swan song because it is not�I have not finished my job yet.

Your affectionate father.



This post dedicated to our new crop of BH's.

Gentleman" adjust the boys, stand tall, and soldier up.


"...my knees do tremble, but should they know where I shall this day take them, they would shake even more."


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 73
N
Member
Member
N Offline
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 73
Thanks.

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,589
A
Member
Member
A Offline
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,589
HHH,

Great posting regarding the art of war. I love reading about Patton, often worked at the hospital where he died, visited his grave in Luxemburg, and the movie is one of my favorites.

AM


BW - 70
WH - 65
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,786
M
Member
Member
M Offline
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,786
bump

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,025
M
Member
Member
M Offline
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,025
Bump for Blackhawk


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650
I
Member
Member
I Offline
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650
I've taken this post by NG from another thread. It sums up perfectly why the 'carrot' of Plan A is not the same as 'plan nice'. Being the best person you can be actively fights and disrupts the fantasy of the affair. In the fantasy, the AP is their 'soulmate schmoopie' and you, the BS, is a psycho.

In warfare terms it is positive propoganda. It is morale boosting for the people of the marriage. Both of you! Plan A is empowering.

Fight their misconception. Be loving, calm, cool, kind - but dont forget to be firm. The carrot is nothing without the stick.

Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
No one can long sustain a war against an enemy who is kind, considerate, and moral. Throughout history, cultures in conflict have described/defined the other side as baby-killing monsters, rapists of innocent women (girls, nuns, etc) to support their lethal intentions over the extended period of a war. It's not easy to maintain murderous rage against an entire nation whose conflict with your own is basically over whether a given province will speak your lingo or theirs. (Or which end of the soft-boiled egg to open - as in Swift's Gulliver's Travels.)

So waywards do what comes naturally - they demonize their BSs. She is reading directly from The Wayward's Travel Guide For Your Trip to Hades. Do not let it get to you - although it would posssibly be helpful to keep a record of these rantings, as they might be useful in your custody fight.

Last edited by indiegirl; 12/20/11 07:26 AM.

What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 56
L
Member
Member
L Offline
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 56
Bumping this thread. Really I think the usefulness is in waging war against the OP, or even the fog. You don't wage war against your spouse - they are the victory that comes from appearing strong etc.


Together 7 years
Betrayed with EA Sept-Oct 2011, turned PA for 10 days
D-Day, NC start: Nov 4 2011
Full Disclosure Day: Dec 17 2011

It's hard to be the lighthouse when the earth has been dynamited from under you. But I'm trying!
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,541
A
Member
Member
A Offline
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,541
bump


BH, 46
STBXWW, 41, Serial Cheater
D-Day #1 5-26-2006 (Our Wedding Aniversary)
D-Day #2 12-26-2007
D-Day #3 5-11-2008
Separated 1-5-2008
STBX filed for divorce March 2009
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,786
M
Member
Member
M Offline
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,786
Bump for SW

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,428
C
Member
Member
C Offline
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,428
Bump.


Me (BW): 35
Married 1999 with no kids, DDay July 2011, OC born September 2012, Divorce final November 2012.

WXH (Gollum) is corrupted by his A, and now forever bound to it.

Plan B has set me free.

"Mourn the man he was. Know the man he is."
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
Member
P Offline
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Originally Posted by Wiki
Application outside the military

The Art of War has been applied to many fields well outside of the military. Much of the text is about how to fight wars without actually having to do battle: it gives tips on how to outsmart one's opponent so that physical battle is not necessary. As such, it has found application as a training guide for many competitive endeavors that do not involve actual combat.

There are business books applying its lessons to office politics and corporate strategy.[17][18][19] Many Japanese companies make the book required reading for their key executives.[20] The book is also popular among Western business management, who have turned to it for inspiration and advice on how to succeed in competitive business situations. It has also been applied to the field of education.[21]

The Art of War has been the subject of law books[22] and legal articles on the trial process, including negotiation tactics and trial strategy.[23][24][25][26]

The Art of War has also been applied in the world of sports. NFL coach Bill Belichick is known to have read the book and used its lessons to gain insights in preparing for games.[27] Australian cricket as well as Brazilian association football coaches Luis Felipe Scolari and Carlos Alberto Parreira are known to have embraced the text. Scolari made the Brazilian World Cup squad of 2002 study the ancient work during their successful campaign.[28]

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 549
B
Member
Member
B Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 549
Good reading


Me BW: 30
WH: 33
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,123
Likes: 1
H
Member
Member
H Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,123
Likes: 1
From Hagakure (Way of the Samurai)

A certain priest said that if one thoughtlessly crosses a river
of unknown depths and shallows, he will die in its currents without ever reaching the other side or finishing his business. This is the same as when one is indiscriminately eager in being a retainer without understanding the customs of the times or the likes and dislikes of the master and, as a result, is of no use and brings ruin upon himself. To try to enter the good graces of the master is unbecoming. One should consider first stepping back and getting some understanding of the depths and shallows and then work without doing anything the master dislikes.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 55
M
Member
Member
M Offline
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 55
Love this thread. Just finished reading it. I already own and read this book. I'm gonna read it again after I finish reading the laws of attraction. Which I think is another good book for BS to read before going to war.

Where can I find the threads on fog talk responses and Orchid's "reverse babble"?

Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,842
A
Member
Member
A Offline
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,842
Bump

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
L
Member
Member
L Offline
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 428
Originally Posted by apples123
Bump

Apples, this is a very interesting thread and philosophy. I have been applying the intelligence and deception adages in my current battle with WW on her initiating D.

However, I am catching flak from the forum for my behavior.


Me-BH, 47
Spouse-WW, 47
Married for 18 years
DS, 11
D-Day #1 - November 1998 (7 months after wedding)
False Recovery, 16 years
D-Day #2 - November 2015
WW filed for D - February 2016
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,362
Likes: 3
P
Member
Member
P Offline
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 7,362
Likes: 3
Quote
However, I am catching flak from the forum for my behavior.
You are not catching flak. You are being told what your mistakes are so you can correct them. There IS a difference, and it is really ungrateful for you to be so rude in response to VOLUNTEERS who take their valuable time to post to you.


Markos' Wife
FWW - EA
8 kids ...
What to do with an Angry Husband

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,818
Likes: 7
M
Member
Member
M Offline
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,818
Likes: 7
Hint: if you are defending yourself, you are being defensive.

Might be good for you to learn how to play psychological ping pong:

http://tinyurl.com/pzuu4o2


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
Page 5 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 466 guests, and 130 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Limkao, Emily01, apefruityouth, litchming, scrushe
72,034 Registered Users
Latest Posts
Three Times A Charm
by Vallation - 07/24/25 11:54 PM
How important is it to get the whole story?
by still seeking - 07/24/25 01:29 AM
Annulment reconsideration help
by abrrba - 07/21/25 03:05 PM
Help: I Don't Like Being Around My Wife
by abrrba - 07/21/25 03:01 PM
Following Ex-Wifes Nursing Schedule?
by Roger Beach - 07/16/25 04:21 AM
My wife wants a separation
by Roger Beach - 07/16/25 04:20 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,625
Posts2,323,524
Members72,035
Most Online6,102
Jul 3rd, 2025
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 2025, Marriage Builders, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.0