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I'm here alone tonight and feeling a bit rubbishy about things. I hope the rubbishiness (I luve makin' new words up here, no one corrects you!) is gone ST.  I kind of feel that we are not so much recovering from the A now, more working on the pre-A M. So I'm not sure whether to keep posting here in recovery, whether to move to 101 or whether to keep looking ot see whether there is any forum for people trying to recover their M from forms of abuse other than infidelity. There are forums for people recovering form abuse but not their M. ST, I think starting a thread over in MB101 would be a fabulous idea. If you aren't comfortable with that right now, what about doing a bunch of reading over there first. I've wandered over there from time to time, there seems to a bit of everything, a melting pot of sorts.
I doubt they're as nice as we are here.  Maybe it's a little project for me. E commented earlier that this isn't always the best place for putting an end to abuse and I understand why that is - although it did seriously put me on the right track. J is the only one who can end his abusive actions, that's his to own. You are the only one who can end how it affects you, that's yours to own.
I think you both have come far from where you both were, do you see the progress???
MB has helped you to get back on track, are there aspects of MB that you are straying away from???
I find MB is like learning a new job. The more training I get, (reading and rereading the same MB stuff), the more it sinks in and I catch something that may have not made sense the first time. It's almost like I have to have step one successfully passed before step two or three or four, can be truly understood and passed as well.
It takes time and practice. It's easy to revert back to old behaviours, cuz that was our norm. We have to focus on the new norm, the new M, the new job. I find myself today, really wondering whether I should be going all out on the ENs and things and the MB prog. Buto n reflection I'm still thinking that I don't have the real remorse yet, I don't have that full change in behaviour that a BS needs from a FWS. This, the bolded, will affect how J feels about you. You may not think that J can sense this, but I bet he can. As a BS, remorse is huge. Remorse is what motivates the FWS to change and be a protective and caring spouse to the BS. When true remorse is not felt, it comes through in even the littlest of actions toward the BS. It's the smallest amount of thoughtlessness that peeks through, that same thoughtlessness that was there just before and during the A. It might not have been so noticeable back when, but now post A, it sticks out like a sore thumb.
It does affect your M. It affects your sincerity towards being protective and caring of your BS. All my opinion of course, as a BW.  I am still blamed when things aren't right (my A is not blamed) and I have been frustrated and saddened lately because I have not been able to enforce my boundaries. I have removed myself and have been hounded down so that the torrent can continue. He wonders why I don't hug him or kiss him when all of a sudden he's nice again. ST, are you doing your best to make J want to be romantically in love with you? I'm not saying that you aren't, I don't know, I'm asking you to think and wonder if you are. I try really hard to keep that in mind when I'm feeling tension between H and I. I try to look at my actions first.
By not keeping up your boundaries, you are allowing yourself to fall back into old thinking, the thinking that allows LB's to take over. You want to DJ, make SD if only in your own head, and you want to practice IB, and this can lead to not practicing EP's.What am I doing wrong? Why are things reverting back? I understand exactly what you are saying. I felt like my M was going back to the old one too.
Decide to not let that happen. You are a smart cookie ST, look at what's not working, what is resurfacing that is/has been destructive in your M, and eliminate it. I think that is what we do wrong, we don't catch this crap in time and change it. I think before we didn't have the knowledge to recognize it and know that it can be fixed. Now we do, now we have no excuse.  I've been trying to work out what is accepatable and what isn't again. Making excuses - a stressful time: changing jobs, it'll be 6 weeks between pay days despite continuous employment, a new puppy, going away for the w/e. What we've learned, how to be a better spouse, sure is tested when times are challenged. At the end of the day, look back and see how the day could have been a better one. Again, it's up to us to practice what we know will work, (care and protect our spouse, boundaries) and avoid what we know doesn't work, (LB's).Does that mean that if I have called Time Out and respectfully explained why, that he can come chasing after me when I am sat alone ,in the bedroom, against the door and force the door open, bashing it against me to do so? Were you able to talk about this later, does J realize how hurtful this is to you, and how this affects your love for him?
I'm sorry ST, I can imagine how upset you must have been. Write it down and it sounds wrong. What's my next move? Any of you reading that have any experience of recovering an M like this. Did the bad bits just stop one day and never return - how do you keep recovery from this up? I don't have the experience of the abusive behaviour that you have. I do have the experience of a dysfunctional M preA. It's seems like a double whammy in R. One thing that helps is to focus on the present, and not dwell on past mistakes. I know it's hard, but it's possible, that has helped me.I guess in much the same way as R from an A. I went searching Verve's thread for the posts from Mark and Jim Flint, the ones about creating a new M. They are gone ...... 
I thought the 2 of them really complemented each other with what they said, you know like Ben and Jerry!
Anyway, I'm sure you know the jist of what they wrote, I thought it would be a good encourager post.  Maybe we should start another forum that tackles this. ST, are you able to go to a support group for people in your situation? The Perp course that J goes to, would they not be able to direct you to such a group? I think I asked you this before, sorry but I can't remember what you answered.  Please can someone bring me some clarity? Nope, all I can give you is simple chit chat and rambling! That's my disclaimer, so if I am off track with what I think, it's not my fault!  Made this a pretty post, the colours always made me feel better on my thread!
I hope you are feeling brighter today.
Miss you ST. 
M'd 22 years
BW-me
D-Day 08/08 LTA
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You are right it would be great to have a locked forum. Of course J does read here and often I don't post because he can read here.
One of the womens's safety officers commented that it is up to us to try to make services available for women in similar sits.
I still believe that M can be redeemed and abuse removed (I think) and I would like for there to be a place where people can discuss it and thrash it out. Much like infidelity it is taboo and women and men who are in an emotionally abusive/physically abusive M need a way and a place to discuss just as those trying to recover from the abuse of an A.
If infidelity is worse than other kinds of abuse why will Harley help people that have had an A but is very reluctant to if there is physical abuse?
I can't comment - I have only been on the receiving end of infidelity when engaged before J - so can't compare fully. But something doesn't quite add up with what is said here and what is practised.
Just a forum would be a great start. There is a hole in the market.
If anyone knows of such a forum elsewhere please let me know.
This morning I hated him, this afternoon I just don't care. It's sort of back to the point where life would be easier without him, even though he cooked a meal last night and sorted the children's tea and took DD to the dentist this morning.
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I'm here alone tonight and feeling a bit rubbishy about things. I hope the rubbishiness (I luve makin' new words up here, no one corrects you!) is gone ST. I kind of feel that we are not so much recovering from the A now, more working on the pre-A M. So I'm not sure whether to keep posting here in recovery, whether to move to 101 or whether to keep looking ot see whether there is any forum for people trying to recover their M from forms of abuse other than infidelity. There are forums for people recovering form abuse but not their M. ST, I think starting a thread over in MB101 would be a fabulous idea. If you aren't comfortable with that right now, what about doing a bunch of reading over there first. I've wandered over there from time to time, there seems to a bit of everything, a melting pot of sorts.
I doubt they're as nice as we are here. Maybe it's a little project for me. E commented earlier that this isn't always the best place for putting an end to abuse and I understand why that is - although it did seriously put me on the right track. J is the only one who can end his abusive actions, that's his to own. You are the only one who can end how it affects you, that's yours to own.
I think you both have come far from where you both were, do you see the progress???
MB has helped you to get back on track, are there aspects of MB that you are straying away from???
I find MB is like learning a new job. The more training I get, (reading and rereading the same MB stuff), the more it sinks in and I catch something that may have not made sense the first time. It's almost like I have to have step one successfully passed before step two or three or four, can be truly understood and passed as well.
It takes time and practice. It's easy to revert back to old behaviours, cuz that was our norm. We have to focus on the new norm, the new M, the new job. I find myself today, really wondering whether I should be going all out on the ENs and things and the MB prog. Buto n reflection I'm still thinking that I don't have the real remorse yet, I don't have that full change in behaviour that a BS needs from a FWS. This, the bolded, will affect how J feels about you. You may not think that J can sense this, but I bet he can. As a BS, remorse is huge. Remorse is what motivates the FWS to change and be a protective and caring spouse to the BS. When true remorse is not felt, it comes through in even the littlest of actions toward the BS. It's the smallest amount of thoughtlessness that peeks through, that same thoughtlessness that was there just before and during the A. It might not have been so noticeable back when, but now post A, it sticks out like a sore thumb.
It does affect your M. It affects your sincerity towards being protective and caring of your BS. All my opinion of course, as a BW. I am still blamed when things aren't right (my A is not blamed) and I have been frustrated and saddened lately because I have not been able to enforce my boundaries. I have removed myself and have been hounded down so that the torrent can continue. He wonders why I don't hug him or kiss him when all of a sudden he's nice again. ST, are you doing your best to make J want to be romantically in love with you? I'm not saying that you aren't, I don't know, I'm asking you to think and wonder if you are. I try really hard to keep that in mind when I'm feeling tension between H and I. I try to look at my actions first.
By not keeping up your boundaries, you are allowing yourself to fall back into old thinking, the thinking that allows LB's to take over. You want to DJ, make SD if only in your own head, and you want to practice IB, and this can lead to not practicing EP's.What am I doing wrong? Why are things reverting back? I understand exactly what you are saying. I felt like my M was going back to the old one too.
Decide to not let that happen. You are a smart cookie ST, look at what's not working, what is resurfacing that is/has been destructive in your M, and eliminate it. I think that is what we do wrong, we don't catch this crap in time and change it. I think before we didn't have the knowledge to recognize it and know that it can be fixed. Now we do, now we have no excuse. I've been trying to work out what is accepatable and what isn't again. Making excuses - a stressful time: changing jobs, it'll be 6 weeks between pay days despite continuous employment, a new puppy, going away for the w/e. What we've learned, how to be a better spouse, sure is tested when times are challenged. At the end of the day, look back and see how the day could have been a better one. Again, it's up to us to practice what we know will work, (care and protect our spouse, boundaries) and avoid what we know doesn't work, (LB's).Does that mean that if I have called Time Out and respectfully explained why, that he can come chasing after me when I am sat alone ,in the bedroom, against the door and force the door open, bashing it against me to do so? Were you able to talk about this later, does J realize how hurtful this is to you, and how this affects your love for him?
I'm sorry ST, I can imagine how upset you must have been. Write it down and it sounds wrong. What's my next move? Any of you reading that have any experience of recovering an M like this. Did the bad bits just stop one day and never return - how do you keep recovery from this up? I don't have the experience of the abusive behaviour that you have. I do have the experience of a dysfunctional M preA. It's seems like a double whammy in R. One thing that helps is to focus on the present, and not dwell on past mistakes. I know it's hard, but it's possible, that has helped me.I guess in much the same way as R from an A. I went searching Verve's thread for the posts from Mark and Jim Flint, the ones about creating a new M. They are gone ......
I thought the 2 of them really complemented each other with what they said, you know like Ben and Jerry!
Anyway, I'm sure you know the jist of what they wrote, I thought it would be a good encourager post. Maybe we should start another forum that tackles this. ST, are you able to go to a support group for people in your situation? The Perp course that J goes to, would they not be able to direct you to such a group? I think I asked you this before, sorry but I can't remember what you answered. Please can someone bring me some clarity? Nope, all I can give you is simple chit chat and rambling! That's my disclaimer, so if I am off track with what I think, it's not my fault! Made this a pretty post, the colours always made me feel better on my thread!
I hope you are feeling brighter today.
Miss you ST. Thanks for your reply Vit I think I'll get confused if I try to quote bits so i'll just reply. I'm quite sure they (in 101) can't possibly be as lovely as you Vit When I was tlaking about remorse, I meant that i don't have the remorse or the repentance that he says he has received from me about the A. He knows that I am remorseful about my behaviour and I am. He doesn't seem remorseful about his behaviour - otherwise why would he continue with it? I asked him again the other night whether he needs anything more from me to recover form the A. He said "why does my behaviour have to be about your A?" Why can't it be about the other things that you annoy me with? I let him know that it didn't have to be about the A , that I just wanted to know if I could do anymore and that his badly managed anger was about him and not about anything I do. There is no support group for people in my sit here. It was the lady from his group that kind of suggested I should do something about it and it was as much as they could do to sort the mens group - no funding. Right now Vit I can't work on the M - I'm too far off, too down. I have shown everything in place EPs to make sure I don't stray and he is happy with my efforts. Right now he is WH and I am working out whether to exercise my right to move on. I did alk to him about hte door thing and he hasn't apologised. He came an followed me when I left a hurtful conversation again this morning - when I told him I was taking time out he said "ok I'll leave But.." I told him no more buts, no more buts, just leavethe room please. Teh pretty colours did make me smile Vit. I'm down and I know my downness is affecting my usual positive thinking - because I can't even think positievely about moving on - which I have always been very able to do, always. I am going to post this, despite my fears about his reaction when he reads it. Hence why a private forum ofr this would be good.
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I dont know how to do pretty colors etc..but I am sending you hugs.
And you dont need to read all my rambeling rubbish (I like that word)...if you dont want to..just send a hug back. I mean vit knows what she is talking about...I on the other hand just go on and on and forget where I am going and get lost...but here is my take on what i read
The deal is realizing that a persons anger is their own fault.
How they react to their anger is their responsiblity
Even if they are justified in their anger...
An angry BS who beat the crap on D Day of their WS is..justified in their anger but WRONG to physically assult a person.
A person being attacked is justified to physically defend themselves only to the point they can get away...to continue to beat a person to death..and then say "They started it" is wrong...period.
This is where I disagree with many BS on this board.
A person as a RIGHT to be angry
they have a RIGHT to be hurt
they do not have a right to be mean, hurtful etc to their WS.
They have the Right to leave or they have a right to stay and behave properly with their WS...
When you disapline a naughty child = you punish to create a determent to the wrongful action.
A BS punishing their WS is revenful and wrong. The old you wronged me first so I wrong you back is not okay.
Thast my long way of saying even if him mistreating you over things that annoy him that have nothing to do with the A...is still wrong.
He can be angry...he can be annoyed...he cant not take negative ACTION on those feels. Thats the problem alot today
I felt neglected
I felt unattractive
all that was legit feelings and okay to feel
I took the wrong ACTION
He needs to not go "you were bugging me so I lashed out"
but analzye WHY it annoyed him...and maybe realize he hasnt had the right food today and his sugar is low and he is short tempered...or realize that the true trigger is something else all together - what ever his issue is...its HIS issue...his feelings...if you are doing something to trigger them...he needs to politely explain what it is.
For instance - my H is very organized and anal about the house and cars and everything. Everything has a place - why wouldnt you put it back when you were done. When I finish my shower I used to leave the wet robe on the bed. When I got home I would find it crammed under neath my side of the mattress all lumpy and soggyand wet...H values a clean house. H values people who clean up after them. An orderly house makes him feel safe after growingup in an unorganized home with abusive alcoholic parents. All those feeling have value. Cramming the robe under the mattress in a passive aggresive attempt to get me to hang it up = not okay. or...Asking me where my cell phone is...knowing full well I dont know where it is cause he has it in his pocket and I forgot it on the table...insted of putting it on the charger...not okay. taking my credit card from me cause I forgot it in my pants pocket and he found it while doing laundry and wiating until four days later when I go to actually use it and I cant find it and letting me panic for a full 20 minutes before telling me he has it to teach me a lesson about being responsible...NOT OKAY...saying "hey honey I found this in your pants, it would be great if you could be a bit more responsible with this card...it is direct access to our money and it would be bad if it feel into the wrong hands"...okay.
Those were all Love busters I used to do...and how he responded poorly...
Now I remember to hang up the robe - its an act of love - a way of saying I care what you think and honar you...
I hang up my keys
I put my credit card away
and really - i dont have to spend so much time looking for stuff...
he wasnt wrong in what he wanted me to do...just wrong in how he tried to get me to do it.
I dont know what your Hs issues are ST...its possible that he is legit in his annoyances...I know in some cases my H was...but...BUTT...how he is communicating his issues to you is WRONG...he needs to work on this...not you. You are not perfect.
I am not perfect. We both will screw up and annoy our husbands. The deal is...can they get to a point where when we screw up they can communicate to us in a manner that is not filled with anger or disrespect...and that is the criticle point..if he can get there your marriage has a chance...if he cant..well then. Same goes for me.
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 ST, I've not been on MB in an age and I'm so upset that I've not been here for you when you need support. Why didn't you message me? I'm so sorry ST. As has been said, J's behaviour is J's to own and only if he begins to see it as unacceptable will it really change. My guess is that he has behaved like this for so long that he doesn't see it as behaviour but sees it as just part of being J. Maybe his parents condoned his poor behaviour when he was younger or explained it away as normal. I worry that he is doing the perps course for you and not for him. Do you know what I mean? If I couldn't control my anger, I would want to do something about it for me, because I would hate myself, but if I thought my anger was just how I was and BB said "do a course or we go to plan D", and I didn't want to lose him, then I would do the course but not for the right reason. I'm not saying that saving a marriage isn't a good reason. Of course it most definitely is, and in both cases I would end up doing the course, but I would only really be truly invested in it and in doing the work to change if I wanted to do it for me and because I realised that my behaviour was intolerable. You and J need to talk this through. O & H communication is key. I hope you're feeling a little better today ST. Marital recovery for any sort of abuse is tough, whatever the abuse is but it can be done ST. You and J can do this. Love you ST.
Me - BW
FWH - BB -(PA Jul 08 - Aug 08)
D-Day - 8 Aug 2008
Recovering nicely
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Hello
I'm sorry I haven't been about. I got depressed. I'm now angry - I think that is an improvement on sad.
I'm not sure why I didn't message you Sere - sometimes it's hard to admit that things are [censored] and that things have gone to poop.
J is doing the perps course for the house and children (whether that is for him or not I'm not sure - but that is his motivation).
You have hit the nail on the head Sere - he sees it as part of him.
Sis,
The thing that J hits on most is that he is nervous about his new job - an area of life that is now totally unfamiliar and I guess he feels out of control so is going overboard to control the things (or people) that he thinks he can control - just to give him that bit of security.
He also thinks that working normal hours will be worse for us that shift working - I think he is possibly the only person on the planet that thinks shift working is better for couples than normal working.
J is anal about where things belong - but soooo much more so when other things are out of his control - but he has been home for 2 weeks now - he has mentioned that he doesn't know how the housework will get done when he is doing normal hours. I keep telling him it will get done. Thing is with him off, I'm asking him to do some of the chores which sometimes he deosn't mind doing and sometimes he does but does them and feels resentful. If he isn't around, I'll just get on and do it. But right now I feel why should continue to rush around like a headless chicken when i can take advantage of him having 2 weeks off aswell.
My taker is trying to take I know, but that still doesn't give him the right to physically push me around.
see... i've moved on to angry
but i am no less sane than I ever have been and have actually now thought that he has to have a chance off shifts and that I can't chuck it all in just at this sec - as i have so so so so wanted to the last few days.
Hanging by a thread.
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ST,
I so wish I had some magic I could say or some words I might give you to say that would make all of this right and allow you both to be happy and content. If I had those words, I'd gladly give them to you.
I can tell you however that you need to stay focused on what you do and what you will do. Yeah, I know, he has a bunch of stuff he needs to learn and do and stop doing and...
But go back to the boundaries book. Protect yourself not just from the physical which if it has reached that point where you fear for your well being might require more constrained boundaries. If he can't control his physical self, then physical separation is all that will protect you.
But if it isn't physical and is verbally abusive then tighter boundaries might be in order. Remember that boundaries contain you only and not anything that is his. Boundaries protect you by defining what you will allow and what you will do they cannot and should not try yo define him or what is his.
So what happened to all the UA time that was happening? What's up with the puppy, why no updates or did I miss something? Where did POJA become an abstract and stop being a method of ensuring protection for both? How did both Takers end up running the whole bloody thing?
Did you ever get to that church you were going to visit?
Mark
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I so wish I had some magic I could say or some words I might give you to say that would make all of this right and allow you both to be happy and content. If I had those words, I'd gladly give them to you. Thank you [quote]I can tell you however that you need to stay focused on what you do and what you will do. Yeah, I know, he has a bunch of stuff he needs to learn and do and stop doing and... I'm trying- it's so easy when he isn't around But go back to the boundaries book. Protect yourself not just from the physical which if it has reached that point where you fear for your well being might require more constrained boundaries. If he can't control his physical self, then physical separation is all that will protect you. Maybe it is becuase that I have been protecting myself emotionally that he has now raised his game. For a month or so now I have been enforcing these boundaries. Something that I haven't really needed to do for quite a while. Now I am, I guess I'm getting that angrier phase still because I am trying to resist the bullying. But if it isn't physical and is verbally abusive then tighter boundaries might be in order. Remember that boundaries contain you only and not anything that is his. Boundaries protect you by defining what you will allow and what you will do they cannot and should not try yo define him or what is his. I do just try to look after myself at these times. I think I have clarity over boundaries. Are you seeing anything that suggests otherwise? So what happened to all the UA time that was happening? What's up with the puppy, why no updates or did I miss something? Where did POJA become an abstract and stop being a method of ensuring protection for both? How did both Takers end up running the whole bloody thing? UA time - I'm avoiding him. Every conversation seems to get turned on it's head. If I see a glimmer of sensible mood I am trying to pull myself together and run with it, but it seems the second I do, I've done something else wrong. The puppy: despite our POJA and the discussion for 10 years it has now become "your puppy", whenever it suite him. I said I would take responsibility for all the walking and I have, but this week when I was working, I asked whether he would be about at lunchtime to feed him to save me coming home, he said he would be. But then later on complained that I had expected him to do it. I asked whether he was going to be about and then asked if he would please do it. How is that expecting him to? We went away last w/e and had a great time with friends - he can be so lovely in company. Ted got depressed and wasn't keen to move on Saturday (mum and dad moved in with him), mum was also concerned that he was limping. When I returned sunday night I was also concerned (J and the kids were still away), so I phoned J to share my concerns - he didn't give a s41t and told me to do what i want about it. At puppy classes the next day when they weighed him, the scales read that he lost a kg , so, a bit worried again I got out our scales and weighed him (he'd put on 0.6kg). J had cooked a meal for us, and I had expressed my gratitude when he told me he had planned it but during the meal I talked about Ted. This really annoyed him. So, we have this puppy, which is a talking point. I think we have walked him together once because J is either in bed in the morning or is doing something or can't be arsed later in the day. I so so so wish i had tape recordings of all the conversations over the years pre-dog about getting a dog. Did you ever get to that church you were going to visit? No. He thinks I'm doing it to avoid him and says what's the point of him being around at w/e if I'm going to spend half of sunday at church. Him coming too isn't an option - he doesn't want another commitment. On the upside DD got a fab report "she is confident and articulate" "a quiet caring girl" "strives to give of her best at all times" " has a rich imagination, lovely sense of space and colour" "has recently revealed a lively sense of humour" plus all the fantastic academic stuff. But right now I think all the other stuff is so much more important. He has meals planned in for me this w/e, so I am now feeling more cared for - I hate planning meals. And he is back talking some of the talk, I'm hoping over the w/e he'll put some of this theory back into action. I've decided POJA is just far too complicated right now.
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Oh ST, I'm so sorry you're struggling so much.
I've been gone a while so I've just quickly scanned through to get caught up. I was always under the impression that BPD needed medication and for life - is that not the way it's done now?
As for boundaries/verbal abuse...I really like BB/DNM's method - "I'm not feeling safe in this conversation right now..." that's a very powerful statement and tactic to use. Do you think that's something you can start using?
Me(bw/fww) 39
recovering with amazing fwh/bh 36
DS 7
DS 4
His
EA Oct '07 - 7/2/08 (d-day)
NC 7/4/08
Hers
EA/RA 6/'09-3/'10
NC 3/17/10
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ST,
Could his spontaneous relapse actually be a test of your resolve related to his perception of the marriage, checking to see if the changes you have made are real and if your resolve is to stay changed and stay married?
Just a thought.
No, I do not see a problem with your boundaries or their enforcement. I do know how easy it is to make boundaries about what we want rather than what we do or don't do.
Maybe agreeing to get Ted came from trying to make you happy and in a moment of letting his Giver run his negotiations he agreed though not really in full agreement to get a puppy.
Maybe it was really a case of he thought he knew what having a puppy meant but then he found out that a puppy is nothing like what he thought.
Instead of separating (or dividing) over the dog, maybe going back to the POJA table would be a possible solution.
As for church, do you have any plans to try to negotiate on the matter going forward. I'm not talking about just bringing it up again and rehashing the same arguments all over again. Repeating the same things and expecting different results is certainly insanity. Part of the POJA process is brainstorming to come up with new solutions that hadn't been thought of before. So it removes the "this way or that way" thinking and replaces it with "what way can we go?" sort of mind set.
Mark
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STTTTTTT - hugs
I may be behind you in this process...I dont know.
I realized that you and mark and lur and ima and imstaying etc...were all right. Our Hs...our cake eating if we stay in room when abusive. Your doing great and just like a WS in WD from an affair he iskicking up his behavior.
my BH started down verbal abuse road the night before last. I got up, walked out of room and went to bed. 10 min later he joins me. Asks why i left. I say - i asked you to stop, you didnt so I left...just like I told you I would. He went - but its just how I feel right now.
My response - how I feel is that talk is bad for me and bad for you and makes us bad parents...so i am not going to talk about it. Do I need to sleep in other room or are we going to change topic? I would prefer to sleep with you...
He said - okay.
He tried same thing last night. I got up and left. 10 min ater he comes in and kisses me etc...doesnt ask me why I left.
This morning - very nice.
He is going to keep trying because he wants to
a) control me
b) punish me for bad stuff in his life
but I realize he also doesnt want to lose me so if I enforce boundaries then he will drop a and b so he can be with me eventually
CHURCH - you gotta go. my H tried this on me too..he stays home, I go..period. it was an issue for a bit but I can not POJA god...ever. the time after church i dedicate a solid 3 hours to UA time as soon as I get home. I plan activites that are centered on Hs hobbies and even when he seems reluctant not to do them because "its to late to start" I go and start and he joins and it ends up good UA time. so maybe you can plan to go but also plan UA time directly after?
his job - my Hs new job in november gave him weekends off for first time in 13 years of marriage. At first I didnt like it cause he was there on saturday and I couldnt do what I wanted...more organized house cleaning etc...but its becoming a very good thing for us. Maybe your H values his personal time and fears giving it up with the schedule change. He is an anal guy so lay out a schedule of Personal time for him, UA time for you two etc. Also - i went and got a chore board for the fridge. I list the chores I am doing and check them off as they get done...this made my anal husband happy. It shows I am rspecting his need to have things clean. Planning to clean and getting it done. A small white board that sticks to the fridge is great for this. His behavior about if I was going to clean with him out and about changed when i got the board.
I understand your feelings. He tells me - if we didnt have kids I would have packed and left on DDAY. I think to myself - if we didnt have kids I would have packed and left the day you threw me against the wall and choked me till I almost passed out...whats your point? We do have kids, our family is worth fighting and your bad behavior doesnt define you..,There IS good in J...jus tlike there is good in my H...
It sucks...it does...he told me "i love you too" a few days ago,,,then that night denied saying it...said he didnt remember saying it and if he did say it there was no feelings behind it. I see it as another way to control my feelings...so I am ignoring his petualant child behavior.
You gotta find positive activites to do with kids that are things he would want to do. when he is being an @ss - do them within his hearing but seperate from him. make him WANT to control himself. Its like dealing with a naughty child...ignore bad behavior and actively encourage good behavior.
of course you have been at this longr than me..so maybe i am saying nonsense...i just wish I could hug you and bake some cookies for you (I dont drink anymore...otherwise i would suggest we have a drink..not that i dont really want a drink almost daily)...
is there anything you can do for YOU...knitting has really really been helpful to me. So has writing. and really pouring out love to my boys.
Once I understood H wasnt going to leave me...i got the courage to enforce boundaries...with love. Really get intouch with the agape love (love given to you by god to give to others). Give forth agape love...then your taker never gets envolved because you are filled...and renewed.
If I have a silver lining from this whole horrible experience of mine it is that i trust and lean on God in a way i never did before, even though i was a pastors daughter and was raised in the church...God is real, god gives strength, god fills you up with love. Its true. I want to HUGGGGGG you.
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hey hun = how are you doing.
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Thank you for being there and for your advice, all of you. I ave been struggling a bit recently in many areas but have just had a diagnosis of underactive thyroid which explains soooo much. My concentration is rubbish at the mo and I am shattered. My hope is to be able to give your replies some thought when I have a brain that stays switched on for more than 15 minutes.
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Oh, I should add that J is more chilled, now he has started his new job and it is a relief to now be in our new routine - and a routine that works with everyone else's life.
He had a lot to work through in the diary session at the perps meeting last night but was able to talk about it clearly and not at all defensively.
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Glad to hear things are getting better ST
Recovered marriage, recovering self, life gets better everyday
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Hey ST, An underactive thyroid eh? I'm glad that it was detected, I'm sure you will see a difference in your demeanor once your level is brought up. This is good news. You aren't crazy. It is easily treatable, this is good too. For anyone's interest..... Common mental and emotional symptoms of hypothyroidism can include: A feeling of mental fogginess and slowed thinking Loss of motivation and enthusiasm Difficulty with short- and long-term memory A decline in analytical ability and comprehension Hopelessness and depression Paranoid thought patterns In severe cases, confusion and disorientation here's the whole article mental/emotional S&S of hypothyroidism A few years ago, when I started into the dreaded menopause thing, I demanded that my GP take blood levels of my thyroid. I was sure I was hypothyroid and this was the cause for my weight gain. At the follow up appt., I was told that my levels were normal. 
M'd 22 years
BW-me
D-Day 08/08 LTA
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Can't blame a girl for trying, though, Vitt!
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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I have an enlarged thyroid but blood levels always come up normal. I exhibit above symtoms, the thyroid on right side is larger (not cancer had it checked) yet blood test always come up negative for hyperthroidism. Sometimes I wonder if blood test can be wrong if you are masking with perhaps a different med or foods or something.
Good day for me and yet I feel like crying- why? He is being nice, kids are cleaning house, everything running as it should. Yet. I feel scared and want to cry. You ever feel like that?
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Early in our marriage my wife had serious mood swings, weeks when she felt like just staying in bed and a short fuse on just about every topic of disagreement.
One night she was at a make-up party and when she looked in the mirror saw that the side of her neck was swollen a bit. She noticed that it was bigger the next morning and called the doctor for an appointment. Three days later is was clearly visible at a glance and she was scheduled for surgery within two days after her appointment. The left lobe of her thyroid was removed and found to be swollen but benign.
Her levels were tested and everything was "normal." Her mood stablilized at once, she regained her energy and she doesn't even really remember that time in the months before the surgery though for the rest of us she was pretty nuts most of the time. She remembers the surgery just fine but is convinced that she was assymptomatic before it was done.
Mark
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But mine has been like this for years!!! They keep saying blood tests and ultrasound indicate I am normal - just have one thyroid slightly larger than other. Are you saying I am nuts and its clear to everyone but meeee!! Hmmm.
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