hey y'all!!! *waving* It's so great to see your evolution Tellyboo (I miss Myschae....wonder how she is?). And aeri! Hows your knufflebear?

My Knuffelbeer is as wonderful as ever...almost 5 years married, now! WOW...

So, last night we were scheduled to just lie together and see what happens.

Well, it turned out I had a last-minute meeting, so by the time I was done, we were both too tired.

However (this is the OMG) part... my husband has been hugging me, caressing me, touching my hair, and being just SO SWEET TO ME (He even did flirtatious, sexual touching!)... that I cried with joy.

I actually asked him "Have your feelings changed for me??!! Because I can't believe how loved I feel by you right now!" I also asked him if what he was doing was hard for him, or would it be difficult to sustain.

He said they were little things, and not hard, and he wants me to be happy.

I know it's probably something he will slip out of at times, but I'm hoping that my genuine delight and happiness will be somewhat of an incentive for him.

I mean, I feel like a different person when he is physically affectionate to me. I feel pretty and feminine and loved and happy. And I think it makes it easier for him.

For example, it's his spring break this week, and I feel enthusiastic about him working a couple of days, because I feel contented. In the past, he would do it and I would agree, but I"d be... well... depressed.

Not this week. This week, I can't believe how loved and STRONG I feel.

(please please keep it up, Husband!!!).

Being so far away from my family, when I didn't feel loved by my husband and unable to get it from anyone else... that's a hard way to live. It's hard to manufacture those feelings for yourself.

Anyway, I'll keep you all posted on our progress.

Telly - it is very nice to read this thread, as I am in a similar relationship with my wife where she simply does not value the importance of a healthy sexual relationship. We have been married 9 years, and over the last 4 years we have had sex twice. On many occasssions I have been pretty frank with her about where I stand on this very important issue to me and she admits it is her issue (which is a start, but for over 2 years has done nothing about it). Just recently she purchased these libido pills but there has been no change in her appetite. I am waiting hopelessly more and more each day that passes, but it is very refreshing to hear about the progress you have made. I wish you continued growth on this journey of yours!

Hi CuteNCguy!

I'm very sorry to hear about your situation with your wife.

I don't know how long you have been reading here, but you are NOT alone...

Where are you at in terms of reading through Dr. Harley's materials? There are great articles on this site, as well as his books, and his seminars.

People who have been to one of his weekend seminars say that is definitely the way to go! If that's too expensive, he also does phone counseling.

Very worth it to help get a spouse on board who is reluctant to meet your EN's.

ANyway, welcome!

I am very new to the site so have not read his materials yet, if you can point me in the right direction I would love to get started on that.

Thank you for the friendly response, it does help to know I am not alone.

Well, I am not very good at doing links...

If you go to the top of the page, it has a box for "articles" and one for "basic concepts".

Those would be good places to start.

Again, welcome!

CuteNCGuy33, if your wife is taking "libido pills" or doing other things, at least she seems to be trying to improve her sexual appetite.

Generalizations may get me in trouble, but the Harleys have to generalize, too, so let me say that women seem to think less about sex the less they engage in it, and the more they engage, the more they desire it.

**edit**

Indeed. I emphasize with your situation. It was a church class that led me to Dr. Harley. My wife of twenty-four years says she completely understands my SF needs, but continues to ignore them nevertheless. We bought several books, but it had little effect. As for me, I gave up and take care of my own needs.

IMO based on the past she felt neglected and like she came in last place from all your activities...I know as my spouse did this also....so by the time you woke up and "gave up" the stuff that was taking all your UA time with her she just wasnt feeling love or affectionate toward you....understandable in my eyes....if youv'e been ignored for a long time it's really hard to maintain deep love & trust & desire for someone...that's where I am at...do you think of creative dates to take your wife on?? do all the planning surprise her?? long term neglect has caused this....did you ever apologize from your heart to her..tell her that you "realized" that you have been neglecting her for a long time and your truly sorry and ask for forgiveness? sometimes just doing or giving up some stuff isn't enough...the hurt is so bad that a sincerely apology is required....I know this too as my spouse hasn't done it either and he thinks doing a few dishes is gonna "fix" it. it won't fix squat...it's not a top need of mine....UA/Affection/Care.....time together doing fun things....romancing me for once in our marriage...chasing after me and not stopping if I rebuff him once....show me prove to me I mean more to you than all those other people and activities you have placed before me....until he does this he won't win back my heart....and I suspect it is the same for your wife....and now you have gotten into something else and are telling her it's more important to you yet again (I don't care if she suggested it....she probably wasn't thinking you'd put it before her AGAIN)....sorry but I see this differently than you not get SF....if you want hot SF make her feel like she is the most important #1 priority in your life...and you miss her and time with her. I hope you do this right away...it will work...it would blow me away if my spouse did it....he never will his pride and activities are too important than I am.

So why would changes that apparently have been in effect since 2001/2002, or in other words 8 years, not be sufficient.

I'm reading this as there has been long term positive change that is not being acknowledged, not long term neglect.

I think themud is in the state of withdrawal from doing the right things for the past 8+ years and not getting his needs met.

He (rightlfully) resents giving up those things because they bother his wife, but his wife cannot bother to give anything he values to him.

That's the way I'm reading this.

He's been making her the #1 priority for the past 8+ years according to what he's said here. I think it's totally reasonable for him to resent not getting the HOT SF the way he wants it after this prolonged effort at meeting her needs, etc.

Wrong....he is doing dishes, cooking and stuff....that doesn't cut it....he is missing to meet her top EN's....period...dishes don't cut it for me either....infact no domestic help would make up for it....asking for forgiviness....and doing the romancing like I was talking about...that is what will speak to her....not dishes and resentful giving up of all his activities...he had lot's he was into so that tells me he wasn't around her much at all for a long time....doing the other now for 8yrs is fine but not hitting the mark from his post....and he should get her to read this site also. JMO

You can't get someone else to read the site. One has to simply implement MB, and apparently he's done that. It's not just that he's doing DS, he's been there for his wife. But, from his perspective, she still has walls up, 8+ years later since he's implemented MB by stopping IB, trying to engage her in UA, etc.

How can you say what will speak to his wife? He's right there and he doesn't even know what will speak to her.

You may be right, he may need to turn up the romance dial.

Or he may be right, she may just take and take with no regard to what he's giving.

Since he's there, I tend to believe he has a better perspective on what's going on.

When your spouse is clearly bending over backwards to please you, but they are not meeting your needs (for example, giving you domestic support when what you really want is affection and conversation), you have to tell them how you feel. Not to do so is a Love Buster: Dishonesty.


Letting him go on for eight years doing the wrong thing means she needs to ask for his forgiveness at least as much as he needs to ask for hers. She's extremely lucky to have him around.

And of course, he needs to be emotionally honest with her as well and tell her that her dishonesty is ruining their marriage for him and that he needs her to open up to him and tell him what she would like him to do instead in order to make her feel loved.

BINGO, if he's been doing the wrong things for 8 years, then I agree, his wife needs to apologize for letting him do all the wrong things and confess that she's been dishonest with him by withholding the fact that there were other things she would prefer.

So if it's as was suggested, I believe themud's wife owes him a big apology for keeping this key information to herself.

Not excusing emotional dishonesty but I am giving you some of the reasons I have practiced it myself over the years.

1. He has an angry outburst (this was before I learned how to draw my boundaries around them and before SH told him how they are a bad habit that can be turned around...Still working on this one, unfortunately).

2. Being told "you're wrong" when I express a feeling

3. The guilt trip. (" well then, I just won't do XYZ anymore if you aren't going to appreciate it" or "that's the last time I'll share Y thoughts and feelings with you if that's your response")

This is good I see what you all mean and she should have told him that's not doing it for me I need blank.

I will tell my spouse this "again" today....I need UA/affection/romance/care....not you doing the dishes...or pulling the shower curtain closed...and I have said it but perhaps he is just comfortable doing things like this and not the touchy feely kind of stuff which is what I need...sorta like me saying how about playing cards instead of having sex? I hope mine gets it....as the dish doing has become a annonying thing to me now and not helpful....so yes both should apologize to the other and I am planning on it again today...thanks for the back and forth everyone.

OH - Amen, amen, and amen.

I finally told my H those 3 things as why I couldn't have a conversation with him, and told him that our conversations (and our marriage) were over until and unless he got IC and could have a conversation with me about a sensitive subject without any of those 3 things happening. Period, end of discussion. I would engage in the conversation, but the minute one of those three started, I told him which one he was doing and gave him an opportunity to stop and when he didn't, I walked out of the room. It was **SO** freeing!! And, was the only thing that finally started changing things.

Okay, I realize I am new here and I definitely don't have all the lingo down, but Telly, what you are describing is not normal behavior for a man, no matter how cerebral he is. There are 4 basic reasons why a man doesn't want to have sex or have it so very infrequently: a medical problem, severe mental/emotional trauma when young (this would require counselling to get through), gay issues or a pornography addiction. I suggest you check the history on your computer as porn is the most common reason. I suppose, too, a man can use this as a control issue but that would point to some mental/emotional issues which would need counselling. I'm sorry you are going through this. There is nothing that hits the heart of your femininity than feeling like your spouse doesn't desire you. I've been there, bought the tshirt. (((telly))) Good for you though in confronting and standing firm about this!