So what should it tell me if I've DONE this, I know he's heard and understood me because he's done it once or twice as requested, and then just stops. (And this has happened multiple times...)

Is it that I'm not important enough for him to do what I've asked?
Is it that he only wants to do the bare minimum?
Is someone sneaking into my home and giving him an amnesia drug on a regular basis?

It's terribly aggravating. I don't want to have to tell him EVERY time he comes to bed wanting some and he hasn't cleaned up. It's like having a 2 year old, which is NOT a turn-on.

Sounds like a skull density problem to me

Dude, take a shower => get laid. Not that difficult.

TAC:

I am happy to stop by your place and slap the amnesia drugs out of your H any time. Man, if my wife told me I'd get sex if I showered and shaved I'd never leave the bathroom! I'd have a battery powered buzzing device in my night stand drawer. You know, a cordless razor!

Seriously though, please realize that this is a control issue. His macho is getting in the way. Somehow he feels if he did what you wanted, he wuld be "whipped". Which in his mind is worth than death. Handled properly, this could be fodder for conversation.

REally? a battery powered device? Maybe THAT is what I newed to get for my husband!

Seriusly, you think it's a control thing, that our H's don't want to appear "whipped"? And exactly how do we broach that subject with our husbands?

....just some thoughts. Not saying these are correct attitudes and thinking. just that they are often true.

There is part of being a guy, that is defined by not caring as much about how you look.

If doing something for my wife makes me feel like less of a man, even if it gets me sex (which in my house - NOTHING I do ever makes any difference) then that is really a quandary.

I'm not saying guys should be total slobs, but it can be a fine line to tread. there's is a part of being male,(at least in this culture) that recoils against this. Even if a guy is a decorated combat veteran in the Special Forces....if he CARES too much about how he looks other than perfunctory hygiene, .....all the other guys shake their heads.

"Bro, what'd you do, use hair spray?"

I'm not saying they shouldn't brush their teeth or make accommodations. not even saying they shouldn't do everything you've asked. Just pointing out that there is an internal "masculinity gauge" inside almost every guy that is very strong, and a woman's point of view of what is masculine, is often taken with a grain of salt. Remember the need for respect. Taking care of yourself shows self respect, but being someone you are not for someone else on a daily basis.....lack of self respect and lack of respect from other men. (Of course this cuts BOTH ways admittedly)

Case in point. My son is in preschool. he often checks with me if things are OK. "Is this "girly" Dad?"

"Mmm. We don't usually wear that color bud. Its kinda girly."

It's difficult for me to wear cologne. On fancy dates with my wife I will for her, but I actually hate it. MY dad never wore it. It "feels" like wearing perfume and that's "girly"

(I'm not saying cologne is girly. But there is that small voice in my head that says it is.....and that voice has been there since I started observing my father and my brothers when I was little. I gauge masculinity by the example of my father and my three older brothers and my uncles and grandfathers. What the women in my life say about that subject.....its not without ANY weight....but....anyway, it can put us in a quandary)

Intersting, LS. Very interesting. Thanks!

I've seen my husband go through just this process with his three boys. Youngest boy will currently wear anything not covered in sludge, son #2 currently is into wild colors in shirts and board shorts, and oldest son (just starting college) would dress in grays and blacks everyday if you let him. lol But none of them will touch an article of clothing if Dad says it's girly.

I bought my husband an expensive bottle of cologne while we were dating and her seldom wore it. Perhaps he thinks about cologne as girly? Interesting idea, I'll have to ask him and find out.

It should surprise no one that my H had a hissy fit the last time I asked him to take a shower before SF. He has no problem with showering...he does so every day. But he had been working out in the yard and in the garage and then grilled some dinner (so his hands were clean at least!). And then later, he still hadn't showered and was making it clear that he was in the mood. I asked him if he would shower first.

Hissy fit.

Ah, its getting late in the day, but I think I know what this is. It isn't about laziness, or manliness etc.

It is about rejection. I got tweaked when my wife asked me to wash my hands before fooling around. Only took a minute. So why did it bug me? I think my brain treats it as a rejection, even if only a momentary one. Triggers that "she rejected me" reaction.

I don't know... while I can understand that some men might think that certain things are 'girly', IMO I am here for my WIFE. It is just a difference in people just like some women will wear a thong and others recoil in horror. It is the same... and don't give me the 'uncomfortable' schtick. It might be, I can admit that totally, but what about plucking your eyebrows, waxing your lip, pulling out gray hairs etc. The REAL issue I believe it that it is only for your 'man' and NOT who you (women) typically dress up for... which is each other. If you think that most women dress up for their husbands, then why are flannel pajamas and XL Tshirts worn to bed far more than a silk Teddy?

But... that is getting a bit afield.

I can't explain why SOME men won't take care of hygeine to their wives wishes. It is definitely a fact.

I have always tried to look my best at all times. Not going over the top, but I pay attention to the little God Gave me. Shower/shave every morning after the gym. Teeth/cologne/deodorant... I have about 10 different colognes, and I actually think... "How am I feeling today?" and choose according to that. Sporty, warm, cool, sexy, young, 'proper' etc. I have always made it a little game for myself. My dad had Brut... that was it. But he wore it everyday. I remember my Mom always commenting on how good he smelled. Even though he smelled the exact same every day of my life. She commented on it all the time, and I don't think I ever smelled him without it. And we lived on a RANCH!!!

It is different for different folk I guess. I grew up on the back of a horse... but I remember my Grandpa telling me "You don't have to smell like one." He wore something that said "Musk" on the front. If you picture him, he is the epitome of the grizzly old cowboy... Yep... that is him in your mind right now. But we wore clean jeans and shirts everyday. They were tucked,and we had a belt.

I rebelled with long hair in the mid/late 80's... but that was it. And you know what... My family... the cowboys... never said a thing.

Each to his own. I feel completely within myself and confident, no matter what I am doing. So while some men might feel like a 'priss' some of us just do what we do because it is who we are. I got in enough fights when I was younger... and they were never because I wore cologne...

I'm gonna have to apologize. I shouldn't have used the cologne example. I used to have a boss who was a Vietnam vet, had a Purple Heart etc. He wore a ton of cologne every day. I never thought of him as girly. But, since in my recollection, none of the men in my family ever wore cologne, just the act of putting on something in order to smell good for other people is something I associated with my Mom. That's what she did. That's what my sisters did. "We guys" didn't bother with smelly stuff. That kind of thing.

For the record, my wife likes Drakkar. I wear this for her on special occasions. I've never thought of myself as girly. : )
But I do have to fight the feeling when I put it on. That's all.

We all grow up with certain notions of what is masculine and/or feminine and these things can be etched in bedrock. I guess my main point is that these women may be bucking up against this, however it manifests itself.

Last year I listened to a radio show by Laura Ingraham (conservative talk show host) and she had a whole segment asking guys how long they spent picking out their clothing in the morning. One caller called in and said he spent 15 minutes picking out his ties and shirts etc. She was like "You spend 15 minutes! That's 14 and a half minutes TOO LONG! We want our guys too look decent but we don't want them to look they spend more time then WE do getting ready!"

Tell ya what, if the wife says -- "Do this, get some" -- run a stopwatch. No prob.

For years, I did things a certain way. D-Day shook me up just a little bit. I knew I had to win her back. I purely shocked the he77 out of her when she made some suggestions and I agreed immediately.

Dump the tighty whiteys? Done. A little color in the personal wardrobe works -- even just a bit more comfortable.

Aftershave or cologne? I felt like Landschooner does, but our YS wears a cologne, so I figured, what the heck. Turns out the stuff I got is the same aftershave my older brother uses. If it's okay for someone who's a retired military officer, okay by me. Got used to it and now I like the stuff (PS).

Now, the biggie was something I think Lil or Jen mentioned on another thread and that's what come to be known as "manscaping." I even agreed to that and discovered you can't necessarily see the tree for the forest. Afterward, no problem. And that helped too.

Bottom line, flexibility is a good thing.

Addendum: And I also rediscovered that doing dishes can count as foreplay. What's funny about all this is that once I started making these changes I realized that these were all for the good. Getting in a rut is not a good thing.

TT66, I understand what you mean, but here's some food for thought.

My W and I have been in R for about 10 months now. For quite a while, I was real triggery and very hypersensitive to anything. Intellectually I knew she was on board, but I was still PTSD-ing all over the place.

What I did when my imagination ran wild was to do something for her -- write her a love note, buy her flowers, something that was the exact opposite of how I was feeling, because I knew the feeling would fade. It wasn't quite "fake it 'til you make it" but it might have been a first-cousin to that state.

It didn't always work in making that transitory feeling pass, but an 80% success rate made it worth doing. And it was an $LB winner for her, which in turn was an $LB winner for me as an echo, as it were.

This probably fits in with something Mark has written about on some other thread. (Betting on that fact is hardly a gamble, since he writes a lot of good stuff on just about every topic.)

You might want to try this.

Yep... I figure if I like her to do something... the least I can do is trim things up a bit for her. Anything which would potentially make it more enjoyable for her was A OK with me. Funny thing is though... she would never tell me what she liked. She wouldn't tell me much of ANYTHING she liked... so I flailed away in the dark and did poorly. I worked alot of things out simply by trying to 'think' like I 'thought' a woman would 'think'... which is NOT something I recommend without a net.

Let's give credit where credit is due. Vittoria was the one who made the comment about men taking care of "grooming" in specific areas.

100% true.

I have been doing that for SF since I started MB & I'll tell you - I kick myself for not doing it sooner...like 5-7 years ago!

Interesting and not applicable to what you & AC are requesting - which are basically...well... basic hygienic things.

Got anything else LS?

I have definitely corrected this issue. I come to bed NUDE or with some provocative item on and when lounging around the house I make sure I look good or semi-provocative. It was an inconvenience at first, but now it's no problem at all.


So, how did they get these women to marry them?

Forgive me for asking the obvious - but if someone wasn't properly washing / wiping their [censored] during the dating phase HOW DID THEY EVEN GET MARRIED?


This is BASIC hygiene.

Chris...

I have NO IDEA why people change after marriage. It is a fact and certainly NOT in their best interests. But it is a fact none-the-less.

My 'theory' is that the 'job' is done in their minds and now they can relax. But even moreso, I think that often after marriage, an unfortunate comfort is felt that they are safe and no longer have to 'try' to catch their mate. Obvious problems are that the person their mate thought 'caught' them turns out to be someone else entirely.

I also think that it is often, perhaps in men, a punishment for their wives. One which is somewhat acceptable to society. Just like a woman's refusal of sex makes 'perfect sense' to her friends, if he is being what she believes is a jerk. So to, perhaps, is a man's choice to 'screw her' and ignore some of her basic needs. It might just be sloth in alot of men... I don't know. But in others I really believe it is passive aggressive behavior.

The lack of sexual fulfillment by a wife can quickly bring about the 'screw it' mentallity of a man, which obviously brings about an even MORE self-righteous (but now seemingly reasonable) reaction of 'no sex'. It becomes a self-fulfilling circle but the bottom of the circle is the drain.

Men receive a HUGE amount of self-worth and self-esteem from their perception of how their wives view them. And one of the MOST telling ways a wife views her husband is her ability to SHOW HIM through sexual fulfillment. As soon as sex becomes an issue for a man, all manner of things are put out of sort. I really don't believe you will EVER have a truly healthy and happy marriage if SF for a man isn't met. There are others... many others... both for men AND women, so please don't think I am just laying this all on wives. I am just telling it like it is from a man's point of view. For most men, not all but most, SF is SO IMPORTANT and integrated into almost EVERYTHING they do and how they feel, that is is almost impossible to separate its lack from their job, children, friendships, etc.

Read those articles again, and you will see just how entwined a man's sense of self and SF really are for most men.

I can't explain why men can be slobs and pigs and still 'want to get some'. There is no excuse at all. But I can say that if somehow you can work past that... maybe by inviting him into the shower with you, etc. You WILL have a happier marriage, IMO.

Tell us straight out... DON'T HINT. Say... "I went to Victoria's Secret today, and if you go shower and shave, I will show you what I bought!"

Its crap I know... but you are working on your marriage and men are dense and some are boorish.

But as a man... I would be up the stairs and lathered like a shot.

We used to have this problem too. Or rather, we used to have 2 problems related to that. My problem: Having sex with a man with dragonbreath is NOT going to work. His problem: My wife keeps rejecting me when I initiate at night. (To be fair to the man, he brushes his teeth but likes the fake-garlic cocktail nuts and coffee and doesn't brush his tongue.)

Several things that helped us:
- Make the non-teeth-brushed/non-showered state a NO. Not a 'Yes if you do this' but just a 'not tonight, hun.' 'Giving in' in some cases and rejecting in other cases and asking for more hygiene in yet other cases is confusing and it will bring up the hope that maybe this time you'll give in.

And besides, if you give in, it's not that bad, right? So he convinced himself that the problem was ME being stupid. Me being outright NO about it let him know that it was my problem, but not in a being stupid way, because there's lots of GOOD reasons someone won't enjoy sex at that time. And asking him to 'fix himself' brought up all sorts of 'you don't accept me as I am and there's something wrong with me and I never demand things from you!' issues. (

Which, I believe, is inherent in the ask. I went to an italian restaurant with friends once, and wanted to kiss him when I came home, and he told ME to brush my teeth. He wasn't the most tactful about it, a little too happy to serve me my own medicine, as he admitted afterwards, but there's really no way to say that in the moment and have it feel good.)

- Of course 'compensate' with initiating at times it suits you! Successful recipe for me has been 'I'm going to take a shower, and if you take one after me I'll be getting things ready for [insert favourite euphemism here]!' (My favourite order because it gives me some time to get from my head into my body, which makes things go better.) Or simply "Me shower, you shower, sex?" to which he either answers "Great idea!" or "No, me shower, you shower, sex." Unless, of course, he's not in the mood. But at that point I'm not emotionally invested yet, so the rejection doesn't hurt.