Tink-You are still too focused on your WH and what signs you are/aren't seeing. You are supposed to focus on YOU. I know it is hard to do that especially when you have all of these horrible feelings and they are so raw. I GET THAT. It is NORMAL.

I have a question for you. DO YOU BELIEVE IN THE MB CONCEPTS? Do you really believe in DrH? I was so lost before I found this site and I was RELIVED to have a PLAN. It will work out for me. The end result may not include my WH, but I will be okay. I am not just blowing smoke up your butt, I TRULY WHOLE-HEARTEDLY BELIEVE IT.

Let me ask you another question. What would your life look like if you did NOTHING? Where do you think that would lead. Let's just play fantasyland for a little bit here. A "what if" in a positive way. If you didn't find MB and you found out about your husband's "friend", you would still be pregnant and the Mom of 2 wonderful children. You would have been stuck in that 2 bedroom apartment in SoCal without a car. You would have most likely still decided to move back home to Iowa. You would be sitting in Iowa and doing nothing in regards to your marriage. You would wait out the birth of your child. Everytime that you got angry at your WH, you would call him and tell him how you feel. You would give him an ultimatum, "HER OR ME." You would give birth to your child and your WH would/wouldn't be there. And then......

Your WH would MOST likely go back to SoCal because your M is "invalid." You would be left in Iowa with a new baby and your children, living with your parents. Your WH would go to POSOW and tell her how you are HORRIBLE. How he never loved you. He would most likely move in with her. He would spend A LOT of time with her. They would be "happy" and "madly in lurvvvvvvvvv" You would be getting infrequent phone calls and you might even start to think that he would come home. You would try anything and believe anything he says. You would sink lower and lower as you believed all of the gaslighting your WH is telling you(because you wouldn't have found MB to tell you that it isn't YOU, it's HIM). You would blame yourself and feel like damaged goods and a FAILURE.

Then, a few years(or less) down the road, your WH and POSOW end their affair. WH is alone and misses his children HORRIBLY(he misses you too but he can't admit that). He starts to think about the horrible mistake he made and he calls you and says, "I want to come back home." You are so relieved that he wants to come home that you let him. Unfortunately, you both don't change because you don't have the tools to know what to do. You try for a few months/years. Eventually, you get tired of him telling you to "get over it." No emotional needs being met. A lot of Love Busters will be committed and PAIN would ensue. You get angry and decide that you are DONE. You ask WH to leave and you/he files for D. You get D.

Now the MB way. You are in Iowa and you are working your Plan A. You come on here to vent and gain knowledge. You take of yourself and you are starting to feel GREAT. You deliver your baby. WH comes home to see the baby. You tell him that you can't have another person in your M. He can choose what he wants to do. You either start R or you go into Plan B. If you are in Plan B, you start to feel better. You don't know what WH is doing because you don't have ANY contact with him whatsoever. You work on yourself and you take care of your 3 beautiful children while you make a better life for yourself without your WH. You are okay with that. You either get personal recovery alone, or personal recovery with marital recovery.

The choice is yours to make.

I definitely belive in the MB concepts. I really do. I trust what I am being told. I just didn't understand some of it. And I am angry and hurt right now. It is hard not to focus on what he's doing. I know I shouldn't because what he is doing right now means nothing. He is alien and everything he says or does shouldn't be trusted, obviously. If I never would have found MB I would be miserable. I mean, I still am miserable but I would be even MORE Miserable and without hope. Some days I feel there is no hope. Other days I feel that there is much hope. I am sticking to my plan A even though today it really sucked. I didn't WANT to be nice to him today. I wanted to LB him like crazy over the phone.

Something I wanted to ask about....so there is a family that goes to our church, I am becoming good friends with the mom. She is about 10 years older than me and has 3 girls with her husband. She was thinking that when my WH comes back for the birth that he could stay with them, since my dad will not allow him to stay here until he is committed. Her husband has been through a lot of counseling with her (he had his own one time infidelity 17 years ago.) They made it work and have had lots of counseling over the years. She thought that her husband could talk to my WH and try to knock some sense into him. These are people that my WH knows. Their girls used to baby-sit our boys all the time before we moved to CA. This is a man he looks up to and used to play basketball with. Would this be a good idea? Could it help?

Of course it could help, in the long run. I don't know if it would show immediate results. If these friends are willing to step up and speak up for your M, let them.

When I was exposing, I had a man who said, "What can I do to help?" I was taken aback by it and the only thing I could think of to say was, "When you talk to my WH, can you tell him that he should be home with his family? Let him know that it is possible to work through this." I don't know if the man ever did this, but I know that he was willing to help. He gave me his number and told me that there are counseling resources available. I think of him as one soldier in the fight against adultery.

And you said that you felt like your prayers weren't being answered.

SB-

Well, when I first told him about the college thing (a little over a year ago) he was upset and he did say some stuff like: "why are you telling me this after we're married with 2 kids?" "didn't you think i deserved to know?" "i feel like you deceived me." "I don't even know if i would have dated you had I known this information."

So he was saying those things but then he said that he was moving on and that it was okay and he loved me. Although he never ever said that our marriage was "invalid" back then. Not once. But he did say that he felt I had "tricked" him into marrying me. So, if he was saying stuff like that back then what does that mean? Is he just insecure and acting like a baby about it? I mean, he already knew way worse from my past that happened before college. He never brings up that stuff. Not at all! So I am confused about that.

Also, I know that WS don't really think about what divorce will mean. They are obviously in a crazy mind set and this causes them to think that children will be just fine if mommy and daddy divorce. NOT SO. My WH for the past 8 weeks has been saying that he is not even thinking about divorce and that he doesn't want a divorce. Can I believe this? Or not....
I was thinking that maybe he just wanted to carry on his A with vampira until he got tired of it and decided that it was time to be a husband and father. Is this a possibility? Or am I a fool for thinking that?

As far as what Larry has gathered about this woman from what I've told him and from googling her, it seems that this A wouldn't be a long term thing. My WH knows that his family is already pi$$ed at him and he knows they would be even more pi$$ed if he brought some homewrecker to a family event or something. None of his family is okay with this. They are furious. But he won't answer their calls.

My mom is so angry. She is saying to me "doesn't he know that he is making EVERYONE miserable right now? he's holding all the cards and trying to make us wait on his A$$." This is very upsetting for my family. They love me and are happy to take care of me right now but they are sooooo angry with my WH. And saddened. None of them ever believed he would do something like this. And they know the whole story. They know what I've done and they think this is a bunch of BS.

Well anyway, any advice you have I am willing to listen some more. This is my sanctuary right now. Otherwise I would go nuts.

You are right. My prayers are being answered. I just wish God worked faster on my WH. lol. But I know that it's not God's fault if my WH won't open his eyes and see reality. God can do a lot of things in his life to try and wake him up, get him back on track but ultimately my WH has to make the decision to LISTEN and ACT the way God would have him to. I wish that my friend's husband could talk to my WH now, but I think it would be better in person rather than over the phone. Something about sitting face to face...he won't be able to hang up or weasle out of anything.

On another topic, what Plan A thing are you going to do tomorrow? I know that you can't see him. Maybe you can compose a wonderfully worded message that has something in the way of a sexual innuendo. I know it will NOT be something that you want to do but it is a way to attempt to meet the need for SF when you can't have SF. Be flirty. It was even suggested that I write emails reminiscing about times we had shared together. Times that noone else shared. OUR HISTORY. Don't go overboard though because it will become obnoxious.

When you talk to him on the phone, are you dressed nicely and wearing perfume and makeup? If you smile while you are talking to someone, the people actually hear it. I know it sounds crazy but think about what happens when a friend or family member calls you and they are upset. You know right away don't you?

Keep it up. You are doing WONDERFULLY.

So...you are in plan B. What happens if your WH comes home tomorrow and has extreme remorse and ends it with the OW? What then? Is part of the reason our wayward's won't own up to what they've done or won't come home because they can't stand the thought of dealing with the TRAIN WRECK they've caused? Are they a bit scared of the consequences and the work that will be needed in order to rebuild and have a better marriage? What do we, as BS, do if our WS pulls their head out of their [censored] and comes back?

It has been said here time and time again that God works on HIS timetable. I know I feel like this sometimes too. We've all been there. I have days where I think of my WH and say, "Enough of this crap. Come home already." Of course I am saying it to noone and then I move on.

WOW. Well, if my WH were to contact me and ask me to reconcile, I first would ask him to read the list of requirements to talk to me first and then I would ask him to contact the IMs if he is serious about meeting those requirements.


After he agrees to these requirements, I would call the coaching center. It is an expense that I deem well worth it(even if I have to borrow it). I mean I spent 5000 dollars on my small wedding, 200 isn't that bad for a happy recovered marriage.

I will listen to the advice of Steve/Jennifer and I will follow it to a T.

Of course I will also post on here and get whatever help I can.

I hope that answered your question.

tinker:

Excuse me?


So he is always playing that card is he. What a jerk. Excuse me, that is just over the top. No wonder your guy is in the middle of an affair, it is and has been, all about him. Yea, I know, he is the father of your kids, yada yada yada, but that makes me mad. This on top of living with your parents for two years. . .

I posted about an honor system to someone here. In that post, I used an example of taking wife and kids to dentist. While the dentist was working on wife, he asked me when I was coming. My answer was when I got some more money. I will never forget his comment:

"Yea, dad's come last."

And that is true. Think about the new husband you expect him to be if you choose to forgive him for what he has done. And the quote above is pure Gas Lighting and manipulation. Sheesh. . .

I am sure he has all these redeeming characteristics about which I know nothing. All I see is a guy who needs a serious behind the outhouse seeing to by an older, real man with a hard nosed attitude about right and wrong and responsibility.

I see a brat. You see a husband.

My then wife said she wanted to be a Nurse. Not only did I support her, I stayed up nights printing drug cards and drilling her on upcoming tests. I told her she was going to go through BSN if I had to carry her on my back uphill both ways through 8 feet of snow, daily.

And I meant it.

Larry

Yeah, I was shocked when he was saying all that stuff after I told him. I only told him b/c he was always asking if there was something he didn't know. I thought he would be upset but would forgive it and be ok because he loved me so much. I guess I was wrong. He keeps saying now that he's not "crazy" and that anyone would feel the way he does about this "deception" about college. I think THAT is crazy. If he came to me and told me he had sex with some girl or did stuff with a couple girls that I knew from college I would be upset but I wouldn't take it to the level of saying our marriage was a lie and possibly invalid. And then he would say that is't not just about "college" but about everything that happened in our marriage. (already know all that. basically he thinks i was a horrid shrew wife right) and so the "deception" from college casts the relationship in a whole new LIGHT. according to HIM.

ok. so lets say vampira never entered the picture. she never existed. and he didn't become close to any other vampira either. would these "feelings" of his be so STRONG? i think NOT. they might still be there but it wouldn't be to the point of wrecking a marriage and family. and i know deep down he doesn't want to see me be happy without him and find a new man who will truly love me and take care of me. i question now whether he truly loved me or not. he's used that line about how he's "lied to himself our entire marriage". ok, i hope that is FOG babble because if it's not then that means he LIED to ME for our entire marriage. he throughout the years has always said that I was the selfish one and that I was the one who was narcissistic and it was all about me. well, yes, i was selfish. mostly when we were fighting. you know, the selfish part of you wants to get your way. that is how i fought. it's not like i was living in selfishness everyday, day in and day out every second of every flippin day. but that's how he would like to remember it. must be the fog right.

HA. he is a piece of work. i am beginning to see that HE was very selfish throughout the years and that HE is very insecure. even more so than me. he just HID it well. only an insecure man would feel how he felt about those past events that happened before we dated. and i know he's using it now for his advantage.

and guess what? surprise surprise he didn't call ANY of his family yesterday. his family is Christian and go to church every Sunday. they expect to hear from him on resurrection day. they all know he's messin up. they all know he has this woman in his life and is thinkin about leaving me. but he won't talk to them. i know his grandaddy would give him a good talkin to. and i like i said in a previous post, there is a family that we are friends with from church and the hubby wants to talk to my WH when he comes back for the birth. my WH has always respected this man and he is older than us. (45) So I am hoping he will be able to talk some sense into my WH.

Tink-Okay I can tell you that you are dead on correct about your WH being mildly upset about finding out something from your past, but not to the point of it invalidating your M. You see, I started dating my WH when I was 16, he was 18. We had many many talks about what we had done in our past. He told me that I was his only GF and that he hadn't even kissed a girl before me. In October, 2007, a girl added my WH on FB. It was his old neighbour. I don't remember how it came up, but he told me that she had given him a H.J. when he was 13. I was SHOCKED and HURT. I felt like I had been lied to for 16 years. I got over it. It didn't invalidate our M. It gave me a glimpse into his thinking, and lying. He was already "friends" with POSOW at that time.

He has been changing things about himself and his beliefs for the past few years now too. I now know that is the sign of an affair, but I didn't know what to do with it.

As long as you know that anything you did is no excuse for an A. Keep your chin up. You're doing fine.

Tink:

If you don't go read the stuff here, I am gonna get tough. This is a gold opportunity for you to get the emotional tools you need for a successful relationship down the road with either your husband or some other man. If you have read it, you are not absorbing it well. In your long email, you talked about your "Taker" but not by that name, which is why I am fussing at you.

Larry

My "taker"????? Are you talking about the thing I last posted?

That was your taker you were talking about.

If you have been reading everything you can get your eyeballs on, I stand corrected. I am just paranoid that someone will find themselves here and not take advantage of the opportunity to gain life tools.

Larry

I had just been reading about how to cope with infidelity. But now I went back and read through everything else. I understand what the taker is. I am understanding that she is filling an emotional need he had and now he feels "in love" or like you said, infatuated. I am still in contact with him each day and most of the time there isn't any conflict. But maybe that is bad? I don't know. I was reading about the 3 mindsets of marriage and how you go from intimacy to conflict to withdrawal. obviously my WH is in withdrawal from me. So I am not sure how I'm supposed to get back into his heart? It seems that the Dr. was saying that withdrawal is a very dangerous place. Maybe I'm not meeting any of my WH's emotional needs? Is that possible? I mean, he's pretty much shut me out. So that makes me wonder if he is getting all of his EN's from vampira. I have no idea how to relate to him now. I just talk about the kids and funny memories or things that happen. I tell him we all miss him and love him. Things like that. Should I be doing something different?

You are doing just fine, except for one thing. I gave you a read on your husband's all taker mode with YOU. Don't take upon yourself any blame for his adultery. That is his 100% to own, especially when you consider his "Religious" beliefs.

You are not supposed to get back in his heart unless he wants you there and the greatest danger you have to face is letting him back in to your heart without changing himself.

Understand?

Larry

Yeah, I understand my husband's all taker mode with me. That is what it is right now. And yes it is up to him on whether he lets me back into his heart or not. I do see now that he has to change in order to be let back into MY heart. If he showed no sign of changing then I don't know how I could go on with him. He would be dead to me.

About the EN's....am I doing this right? I can't fill his needs for affection and sexual fulfillment obviously because we are 1,000s of miles apart. I try to meet his SF by talking about good times from before. Is this bad? To bring up things from the past? I just want him to remember that it wasn't all bad and that there is something to be saved. Our marriage is worth saving. It really is.

tinker:

From what you have said. . .


You didn't have the greatest of marriage before. Don't settle this time, please. If you do, you will just have to face the music again, sooner or later. Husband is a brat, period. And not just right now. Time he grew up and acted like man instead of a male.

Now, just be nice. Let vampira try to meet his ENs all by herself. You have his children. If he was grownup enough to attach to his kids, that is all the magnet you need. When he comes around, then you can be a bit more than nice. But, be careful with SF. You don't know who has been in vampira. Yuck, I don't want to EVEN think about that.

Larry

Yeah who knows what type of men have been in vampira. She probably has a good long list. I meant SF thru the mind. Like bringing up our good times with that or insinuating things through texts or email. Although I guess I don't see the point in that b/c we are miles apart.

As far as our marriage before...yes it had a lot of problems and trouble in it. Both of us are at fault for that. But as we all know, he at this moment in time is putting it all on me. Whatever. I believe our marriage is worth rebuilding and making it into a NEW marriage. I do not want the old marriage. No way. That is what got us here. I have been looking within myself and I do know more about what I was doing that was completely wrong and the LB's I did over time that led for him to withdraw. But obviously he needs to look within himself and see where he went wrong and how selfish he was. First and foremost he has to be truly remorseful for this affair. And he has to make an effort and change.