Damn right you're going to be okay.

Hi Opt,

I am privileged to post to you for the first time, and I have read your story now.

First, thank you for Your encouragement.

Maybe you did encourage (instead of the usual trite phrase .. enable her behavior), but Opt, from what I have read of your story, she made her decisions, bad ones at that, and no one is responsible morally for the other. We are responsible for our partners legally and socially, but morally, NO.

I have an advantage over you. I can go to confession on Sat., and if I am truely remoursful, I know that at least God had forgiven me for whatever laxness I had for me or with my wife. I honestly feel tho that I do not have to beg her for forgiveness for how I reacted regarding her affiar, I have to at least apologise for my reaction to that, period. And I have to at least listen to her in regard to her complaints about me.

Optimism, I certainly am not in a position to at all give you advice, but only encouragement. I firmly belive tho, that no one, in their right mind, unless there was abuse or criminal behaviour, would want to leave even an imperfect marriage, where there is a chance of helping and supporting the one they vowed to love. It happens tho, mostly frivolously, but for most common peons like me, trying to save a marriage is so worth the fight.

As far as your feeling of a Pan B, I would so do that, and even tho most of the Harly vets here may disagree with me, I would do it suddenly, the same as I will post on here a little later as far as what I am going to do with Char. I think what Harly is advising OPt is the 'Blitzkrieg" effect regarding a Plan B. Most people, esp a loved one, would go into shock realizing that they have been countered, and are now cut off. It's the shock effect that I believe, as much as the old 'shock therapy', that can hopefuly snap a loved one out of their delerium to face reality.

Anyway Opt thank you and I am going to post my own stuf later. I just re-empathize that You are being remembered in my most sacrad prayer..the divine mercy prayer.


Peace,

Tom

Thanks for the prayers Tom. I'll take all the help I can get.

Funny story about confession: when, through MB and good folks here, I started coming to terms with the negative impact that my previous adultery had been having on my marriage all these years, of course I went to the priest pretty much right off. I told him everything. Then I did an exposure on myself to all those who I had exposed my wife's affair to (it was a craaaaazy week!). Of course I told my wife about my affairs just after telling my exposure targets. Then I went back to the priest. I told him I told my wife. He got a little upset with me then. He said "I wish you hadn't done that- God has already forgiven you through our conversation; by going to her, you were demonstrating lack of faith in His strength and power to forgive." Of course I don't regret disclosing the truth about me to my wife, she certainly deserves to know (from a worldly perspective), but it was an interesting conversation and one that inspired me in other ways.

Well, interesting story anyways, I hope.

~opt

That is an interesting story. It really shows your strong character. I'm not sure why the priest was upset about telling your wife. Maybe he thought it was done out of the need for her forgiveness (which you got from God) instead of the need of openness and honesty in your marriage.

I'm impressed by the strength of your moral convictions. You have said this to me I think but I need to say it to you.....You have done so much good and put up with so much heartache, good things are bound to happen to you.

Well, something like that anyway.

I'm not sure why the priest had that reaction either. I would have thought that as part of the forgiveness - a precondition, so to speak, - he would have asked you to come clean with your wife.
Oh well.

How ya' doing, opt?

I don't think a Plan B letter is necessary.

See Opt, you aren't going into a "Plan B". That's a tool used for affairs and difficult marital situations. While Dr. H has stated many times that if Joyce were to have an affair, he would never speak or see her again.

I always wondered about that. I mean, does that mean he wouldn't have gone to his children's weddings?....Miss out on his grandchildren's birthday's?....How does one divorce and never have anything to do with the spouse, when children are involved???

Well, I think that each person it is different. I know for me, I would not have anything to do with my H. You want to know why?....because I believe in Dr. H's Love Bank theory. And since I do, that means my H would ALWAYS have an account. I if I were to ever divorce him, I would HAVE to stay away in order to keep that account below the threshold......and from what YOU write, I see that need for you as well.

Even though your WW has done some awful things to you, it is very evident that you still love her.....and so the FASTEST and EASIEST way to fall out of love with her, is to stay away from her......kwim???

If I were you, I would limit myself in my access to her. I would not be having listening to her go on about "how-hard-this-is-for-me/boohoo-is-me" bullcrap, I wouldn not be her friend, I would be nothing.

I don't have a lot of faith in this newfound pyscho-babble of "Co-Parenting"......While I COMPLETELY understand the effects of divorce on children and how devastating it is, it does not diminish the pain of a BS. Nor should a BS just swallow their pride and humanity in order to get along with the person who caused them the greatest pain in their lives.....I just don't believe in it......

So, I would stop listening to her when she wants to talk. If she starts any of that crap I would politely tell her No and walk away. After enough times of this, she should hopefully get the picture........I would not invite her over for family dinners, outtings, or get-togethers. It sends her (and the kids....) the wrong message.

As far as your kids, you should be upfront and honest with them. They can handle the truth. However, it would be wrong to lead them on with false hope by doing things with your STBXWW.




Good for you Opt. It is VERY necessary to keep yourself BUSY BUSY BUSY!!!!!! I'm quite proud of you......I would give ya some other things, but seeing that you are a guy...well, I just find it easier to this for the women.....




ABSO-FREAKIN-LUTELY!!!!!

You're gonna be just fine.......

not2fun

Excellent commentary by N2F. This particular narrative jumped out at me as being particularly poignant.

TB

Also, opt, check out our friend Limbo's reply to Pinky when she made the comment that they 'would still be family' after the D. His response is awesome, and right on the mark.

Hope all is okay with you, buddy.

Hi Opt.,

That is both funny and amazing... about the priest *s*.

I went to confession this morning, and I laid it out and feel peaceful and good. It used to be that you got either 2 'our father's or 35 of them along with several 'hail mary's' depending. And, depending on the amount of pennance you would walk out of there and and then judge yourself as to how really bad you are or that maybe you are not so bad - in the eyes of others. Today, and thankfully, it is not that way. I believe at least in my faith that priests are just a conduit, and don't insert their own human filters. I think they realize now that this is just a scarament of the relationship between God and the individual, and only advise true remourse, and going to the individual you need to forgive or get forgiveness from, and yea confess to that person, and try to reconcile. So Opt., today I got 2 'our fathers'.

Tom

I'm a little overwhelmed to try and answer all those posts - thanks to everyone for your comments. I'll try to get more specific when I have more time. Now, things are rolling along toward D, with me of course analyzing everything.

Just quickly, some above seemed confused about the priests reaction to my self-exposure of my affair to my ww at the time. No comment, except: we all have to remember that (I think) exposure is pretty unique to MB/Harvey. As is this whole way of looking at adultery. Try and find a "marriage counselor" that knows what to do with adultery. Anyway, I don't think priests are anymore educated in MB ways than any other faction of society.

~optimism out

I agree with you there my friend.

Not, I wanted to address a couple things you said. Everyone has been so thoughtful and supportive and I appreciate it.



This may be as hard to understand as it is embarrassing for me to write, but I really don't think there's a chance she could get my $LB over the "threshold." We had a very caring love, but not a romantic one. Sad, but true. I never really understood the concept until MB, and Steve hitting me with it like a 2x4 in one of our conversations. So, I care for her as a human, and the mother of my kids, but you all have also helped me see that I can no longer be the crutch for her emotionally. That well has run dry and she will either find another, or grow up ~ as George Thorogood would say "that don't confront me" anymore.


Yes. This is right. I may not get to exactly this spot overnight, but it will be soon. I'm still trying to be somewhat tactful, subtle, graceful, until the court date - for financial reasons I've illustrated before. I'll have plenty of time to recover after that.




*** I was talking to my Mother earlier this evening and let it slip that "I'm surprised I stayed with her as long as I did" (recounting some of my EN's that were unmet for so long) and she, in a rare moment of total disclosure quipped "I can't either." What is it about Moms?

opt


Sidenote: A co-worker just had a DDay with a 3 year relationship. Not a marriage, but somewhat committed. With knowledge gained here, I have been able to help her see the experience from a different perspective, when she was totally lost. [no worries- I'm keeping my emotional distance as well...]

AHHH, somebody whack me with a 2x4!~!

I called D8 to see if she wanted to hang out (not my night, but she had called earlier saying she missed me). Guess who she was with? Yup, POM#2 and mom and brother and POM#2's kids (date bait, I call them).

I KNOW I've already said everything I can about this situation. I KNOW I shouldn't let it bother me and that ww has to make her own choices. In fact, I don't even want to be married to her, so I KNOW I shouldn't even care.

BUT... I just find it so disrespectful that she is hanging out having a good time for herself with single men (even if there's obviously no overt activity, etc. etc.). While I'm towing the line, feeling like a cheat for even smiling at a woman in the grocery store.

Maybe it's payback from the Great Adultery Gods for all the times I was acting waywardly, even in the absence of affairs (I'm thinking I've already paid up for the actual affairs I committed). A little straggling justice, if you will...


Well, I had to vent here because it would be totally undignified to mention a breath of it to ww. She doesn't deserve to know that her actions so much as cause me to raise an eyebrow.

~opt

It's not a chance *I* would take.........but that's me.....
We ROCK!!!!!

I STRONGLY urge you to disengage from this woman. This is PRECISELY how BS find themselves ensnared in their own affairs......(this happened to SMB........it was an awful turn of events in her sitch)...... You have no business getting entangled, so get OUT....
Don't make me come there and beat ya senseless......

Not2fun

Thanks Not. I thought you would say that about the co-worker. I hear you loud and clear. I don't fish off the company pier anyway (learned that lesson once, maybe twice...), but you're message well received.

Had another rough day thinking of ww and om enjoying a nice family lunch together with all the kids at Buffalo Creek after shopping at the mall. He'll be a nice replacement for me - on disability, 15 years older, and about to lose his house to foreclosure. But he knows how to scoop a married woman!!!

~opt

{{{{Opt}}},

I'm sorry this has ya down.... It's gotta be so hard.

So how's the romodeling coming along?

What color did you go with on the master bedroom?.....Purple Passion?....Fiesty Fushia?.....I know....I bet it was Orgasmic Orange.......

not2fun

lol not2Funnnnn, you always know just what to say! (and thanks for the hugs).

Still working on renovating my mind, mostly. And doing some work in the kitchen.

All in due time, all in due time.

opt

Just checking in to say hello, Opt. Not much time lately. My own sitch is chaotic (isn't there anything else with waywards?) but I'm still following yours. Seems like you're doing ok, considering everything. Hang in there, buddy.

PS - what the heck is up with the Sox????

I know at this point I might be asking this on the wrong board as I'm NOT working to save my marriage anymore. Maybe I'm way out of MB territory, but I am trying to save some dignity from the ravages of adultery...

After this last round with ww having what was essentially a date on Monday after I made it clear in writing that I would not continue to be friends with someone who had no respect for me, I am trying to cut all ties except where they directly relate to the kids.

It's just too painful to know they are continuing to develop their relationship while we are still officially and legally married. I also feel strongly that she is deeply hurting the kids perception of what a relationship is supposed to be.

Yesterday I avoided eye contact when she dropped the kids and signed a tax form.
For today, I have stopped responding to the calls, don't listen to the messages and got one text "what did I do?"

How do I let her know I simply can't engage in idle chit-chat anymore and that it's too painful to be her "friend" given the utter lack of respect she has for me? In other words, how do I say "I can't talk to you anymore" without talking to her? Of course she's going to want an explanation (and engage in a conversation ultimately designed to influence my decision - 15 year history with that one). E-mail? Modified Plan B letter?

Thanks for any guidance.

opt