Tinker:

It is called growing up. And I suspect that is getting heavy play in your mind right now. Adversity has a way of motivating one to see about a real view of life, love and the pursuit of survival. Go give your mom and dad a hug. You know why.

Larry

So here is a bit of an update on the situation.

So, when I would text him asking him to send money he would ignore me. Finally I sent a text saying that our car insurance was due TOMORROW and he finally texted back late at night saying he was wiring me money today. (his actions backed up his words-i just picked up the money an hour ago) So, atleast he kept his word on that.

The other thing was I sent him some texts last night just letting him know that i miss him and i love him. I told him that it is still really painful for me to know that he is so confused and still carrying on with this woman in his life. No response. I called him early this morning just cuz I wanted to hear his voice and hoped he would be acting like my old husband. Surprisingly he answered and didn't sound mad or anything. He asked me what was wrong and I just said I was really sad about what's going on and that I have nightmares of divorce and it just is a really scary place for me. I told him that it hurts because it feels like I'm just his baby's mama and that I am hurting b/c of his involvement with this other woman. He asked me why I was so worried about her. I explained that it was b/c of how close he is to her and that it is more than what he will admit to me. I didn't go into anything after that. He said he had to go and would talk to me later.

I hear from him thru a text after he had wired the money. He ignored my texts before when I told him that I loved and missed him. He was being kind of cold, but more like distant. I asked him if he could call me and he said no. (these are all texts btw) Then I asked what was wrong and that I needed to know where to get the money from. He told me but wouldn't say what was wrong. I know there was something going on with him though. So I just flat out asked if I had done something to make him upset or was he mad at me? He texted back no and for me not to worry.

So....I know something is bothering him. It could be anything, really. But I assume it is either the A or the fact that we are gone. Or maybe he is wanting to D and is having a hard time talking to me b/c it makes him feel bad. (i hope that is not it) Does anyone know why the waywards act this way...what is it that is causing them such conflict? Oh, and another thing is he never tried to justify his A. He was quiet when I mentioned how painful it was for him to have her in his life. Only thing he said was why would i be so worried about her.....

I was reading this about the Policy of Radical Honesty:

I carry this Policy of Radical Honesty about your past all the way to the disclosure of all premarital and extramarital sexual relations. That's because those experiences are among your most important experiences in life, and your spouse should know anything you regard as important. Past sexual experiences also create a contrast effect in marriage, and it's inevitable that you will compare your spouse sexually with all other past sexual relationships. Knowing your sexual history can make present sexual problems much easier to understand.


Okay, everyone.....I did withhold information about the thing from college that my husband specifically asked me about when we were dating. I told him some of it but not all of it. Wouldn't this be going against the policy of radical honesty? So maybe my husband has a reason to choose divorce because of the fact that he had been lied to and the dishonesty didn't come out until a little over a year ago. See, this is what is making me think that I deserve this. Maybe she is just a friend and he is just going through a crisis because of what I did. I am getting confused yet again.

You can drive yourself crazy over analyzing every tiny bit, every tiny comment, every tiny track in the sand.

Try focusing on the plan. This is one reason why there is a plan. Go read threads that interest you or that are relevant to your situation. There are words of wisdom here aplenty. Take advantage of learning. It will clear your mind and give you focus.

Don't you receive a separate allotment?

Larry

And it makes me think about that mutual "friend" that said that he could understand why my husband feels this way because he was lied to throughout our entire marriage. Ok, so now I am really feeling NO HOPE.

Oh, and he says that if he can't be with me it's because he can't get over this stuff. He says he would resent me and would be a terrible husband. So maybe a D is the only option. I am the bad guy and he now has a true justification for leaving. Atleast, that is how I see it now that I have read the policy of radical honesty about historical honesty.

It IS an emotional rollercoaster...no two ways about that.

You WILL have moments you feel like there is no hope because of this or that.

Stick with the plan though. It IS something to do instead of going by pure instincts which include both Giver and Taker(who would really shoot you in the foot right now!)

Tell Taker to sit back and let Giver do her thing. Vent here. Stay focused on the plan when communicating with H.

Radical honesty is more complex than simply not having revealed something and then later doing so. So....still....you didn't deserve any mistreatment by your spouse. What he is doing now EVEN if it is in response to being unable to deal with YOUR past revealed is so very cruel. You are about to HAVE HIS CHILD! You, indeally would HAVE HIS TOTAL support. It just is not justified by anything other than getting himself across a boundary with a co-worker that he had no business crossing. Yes, she probably was just a friend at first. That is how it happens (reread the books).

You really need to focus on the plan A and give it your best and when you do go to B (if you do) you will have plenty of time to ruminate on your own self (past, present,future).

I just am so concerned that this rollercoaster is particularly rough on you due to the upcoming childbirth. Please take care and vent here and ride the ups and downs with care.

Okay, I know that you are feeling down and confused. You have a PLAN, all you have to do it stick to it and you will come out of this better in the end. Do I ever have the what ifs sneak in? Heck ya. Then I post and get some affirmations or I read something else on here that helps me out.

Now the facts of the sitch are what?

1. You lied to him about experiences that happened BEFORE you got together with your WH.

2. Your M wasn't mutually fulfilling(some ENs weren't being met on BOTH sides)

3. You had financial hardship and lived with your parents for a time.

4. You had 2 children.

5. You got pregnant for a third time.

6. Your WH went out to SoCal by himself.

7. Your WH began an ADULTEROUS relationship with a ______(we can all fill in the blank).

8. You found MB.

9. You learned some things on MB.

10. You moved back home to your parent's house to await the birth of your child.

11. You decided on a Plan of ATTACK.

12. You have received a lot of advice.


Now, it's time to ACT. How do you ACT? Do your PLAN.

Any questions?

BTW 1-6 is NO EXCUSE for your WH to have an affair. Period. End of story.

Okay, then maybe I am confused about the radical honesty part. I guess I just feel that since I wasn't completely honest then that gives him an excuse to leave, not to have an affair. No, I do not think it is an excuse for an affair. NOTHING can justify an affair. When he says stuff like "I just need to come to peace with this and then I can commit". Or " I need to find a way to reconcile this all in my mind because I can't be a good husband feeling turmoil over past lies and decisions." Should I take this seriously or not? I understand that these things from the past can be worked out in RECOVERY....but how would we get to recovery with him sitting on the fence still?

He is right, he is a terrible husband. But you are not the bad guy.

Historical honesty is a two-way street. You have mentioned that your husband has been less than revealing about his own past. It would appear that he is only pulling this out as justification for his dishonorable current conduct. Or if his controlling comments about your past started before his affair, then there is something else I will get to down the page.

There is something the Dr. Harley leaves out. I don't know why. The man is a genius. Yet what you read on this site is a synopsis of what he teaches through is coaching center and reveals through his books. And heck, he is human and could very well have left something not addressed. And it may be in one of his books. I have read most of them, but not all.

See, from a historical honesty perspective, every single crush, every single transgression, every single event, gets magnified, if you let it. Read the questionnaire that Dr. Harley has posted in that section before you start to dwell on this subject to much. It is an expression of what he considers important instead what you think are important. Or even more important, what your husband is using to beat you with.

My point to you is simple. You are a product of every event in your life. You are a product of genetics. You are a product of your environment. You are who you are because of all those things. And life lessons are life lessons. They change you into someone different. Life lessons are the reason you are who you are. If you did something stupid as a teen, that is a good thing, because you got to carry around your stupid sign for a while, and given that lesson, if learned, is a good thing, not a bad one. If you have a trait you don't like in yourself, fix it. Find an emotional tool and go to work.

A lot of the time, when someone is confessing the sins of their mate, they focus on something they themselves are carrying around as baggage. So the question in my mind isn't what you did, there is no secret there, but rather, what your husband hasn't told you that was as least as significant as what he extracted from you.

His "High minded" purity act just doesn't pass the smell test, especially when you take his current conduct into consideration.

Larry

Well, that's precisely what Plan B is all about. When he continues to cake eat, or fence sit, you pull yourself out of the equation.

Your WH has this right now
WH "happiness"=Tink+Family+OW

You want
Tinkhappiness+Familyhappiness=WHhappiness-OW

Plan B would then be
WH Happiness-Tinkhappiness-Familyhappiness=OW

This leaves OW ALONE to meet ENs for your WH. Do you think she can do it? Your WH doesn't think SHE can do it ALONE. That's why he is fencesitting. Because he KNOWS that POSOW isn't ENOUGH.

Any questions?

Scottie has made a great set of points.


I have strong feelings on this subject. I believe that a percentage approaching 100% of marriages start out this way. In other words, almost nobody takes a course in radical honesty before they get married.

This doesn't make it right or wrong, it just is. And Dr. Harley recommends radical honesty for those who take his lessons after the fact of marriage because let's face it, nobody takes a course anymore before they get married.

So lemme see if I understand your husband's excuse in a different way: He will now carry around the baggage that he had an affair with a skank and fellow personal trainer and abandoned his wife and three kids because of minor sexual encounters by said wife before they got married. Did I get that right?

I can't wait until he pulls that one out his a@@ down the road when he is looking for someone as high minded as he is.

Larry

Tinker,

One thing must be clear.

He is NOT having an affair because of anything YOU did, or didn't do.

His affair is not YOURS.
It is about HIM.

It is HIS.

SB

Tinker,

One of the things that I did when my H had his affair was decide that somehow I was to blame.

I was wrong.

I did much of what you are doing. I bought into his "reasoning".

In your case, your husband has withdrawn from you over what he is trying to sell as a case of your lying to him about things that happened long before you even met.

Let's see - you have said he was NOT a virgin when the two of you married. So, do you know about each and every sexual partner he had? Each and every sexual moment he had with each and every female in his entire life?

Are YOU SURE????

Do you know each stroke, each touch, each caress, EVERYTHING?

Because from the looks of things, this is what his expectation appears to be from you. We are talking about two encounters you had PRIOR to meeting him.

Frankly, this is GASLIGHTING at its finest.


He has you so far off track that you have forgotten something very important, Tinkerbell.


Have you forgotten to ask him:

Exactly what body parts of YOURS have touched exactly what body parts of your CURRENT OW?????


And believe me, if that "invalid" crappolla dripped from his lips, or that "I'm confused" or "I'm conflicted" garbage came up once again regarding that past supposed-sex-lie junk, you can BET I would ask that body part question.

Right then and there.

Because his gaslighting needs to quit.

And his ridiculous excuses do NOT hold water.


Nope.

You need to think about driving this bus. Take the wheel. Because so far, he thinks HE is in charge. You control more than you know.

I am laughing so hard right now! I see where I went wrong in falling back into thinking that this is really about what I did. Yeah, does this make any sense: (He will now carry around the baggage that he had an affair with a skank and fellow personal trainer and abandoned his wife and three kids because of minor sexual encounters by said wife before they got married. Did I get that right?)

THIS made me laugh. How ridiculous does this sound. VERY. And thank you for putting it in those words because now I completely understand that this whole argument is truly absurd.

I know that people don't get the help they need before marriage. We all think that marriage is all about love and feeling good. Then we find out the truth. I WISH we would have gotten help before marriage. Well, we kind of did. Let me tell you what the pastor said. Basically, he said that there will be times when we don't get along and you know, my WH will think to himself..."man, she's being such a b*tch right now!" and I will think to myself "man, he's bein such a jerk right now!". WHAT???? Then he said to just roll with the punches or some crap like that. It was less than stellar advice. I had no clue what storms were coming. Wish I would have been more prepared!

Tinker:

I follow your thread closely. Do me a big favor for these tired old eyes of mine and use more paragraphs, pretty please.

Glad I could make you laugh. Shoolbus reinforced and said it in different words. She is good at husband baiting. I still laugh about her old post on some keys in the door. Maybe she will share where that thread is.

Larry

Well, I did KNOW him when the two sexual things happened in college. We were in the same class and we had been flirting and liked eachother but he didn't want a girlfriend. So I was just moving on and saying , well...he doesn't like me so whatever. So we knew eachother but we weren't dating yet. These two events happened a few months before dating him. We began dating in March of 2001. The first encounter happened in December of 2000. The other one happened in January of 2001. So 2-3 months before we dated.

As far as his past is concerned....he tells me that he has told me EVERYTHING. He claims he has had sex with ONE other woman and it was the summer after his senior year of highschool. He knew her from town and didn't go to school with her or anything but talked to her online and then she came over and they started to have sex but he said he stopped before finishing because he felt he was doing something very wrong. I have no idea if that is the truth or not. I believed him at the time but as of now I'm not sure if I do or not. I asked if he had ever had a woman touch him down there with her hands or mouth or whatever and he said no one had ever used their mouth but that one gf in highschool ( 3 month relationship) touched him with her hand. He said he had made out with other girls at parties and stuff but it never went further than that. One thing I've always wondered about was his senior trip to cancun. (sp?) There were no chaperones and him and his buddies picked up some girls on the beach and took them to their hotel room to party. He says he didn't do anything with any of the girls. There were 2 or 3 of them. Now I'm really wondering what he did....

As far as asking him about how physical he has been with vampira. Yes, I have asked him that. He flat out denies it each time. I told him I know he wouldn't be using a condom because he never did with me, even before we were married. He doesn't like them. He said I was crazy for thinking that and that no one is having sex with him and that I don't have to worry about it.....what do you think???

Well I am sure that a polygraph would go a long way to sorting out the truth from the fiction.

That is what I think.

larry

Hmmm...I see what you are saying. Interesting. So, let me ask you this. Before I left California I had asked him why he talked to her for so long over the phone during a lunch break. (I saw they had talked for 30 minutes)

He said that he was supposed to meet up with her to work on some special training event for work and that he waited but she never showed. So he left. Then she showed up and he wasn't there. She called him all mad at him and they talked on the phone for half an hour. Hmm.....why would she get so mad over that? What was he doing for that half hour? Calming her down and making it "all better"? This just doesn't seem like normal behavior. Friends don't get mad at friends like that for not being somewhere. I would think they would just ask what happened and go from there. No, she was MAD.

So this has me thinking that she is doing stuff to tick him off because he was not wanting to talk today. I know him and when he is upset. I know something is wrong. I know it has to do with vampira. So, could this be a good sign? Like maybe he is seeing her for who she truly is. I know that is very hopeful on my part, but I have been praying SOOOOO much!!

I have a feeling that she is either getting bored with him or she is crazy and wants to start a full on committed relationship with him and is giving him ultimatums. Could that be a possibility at this point? I mean, she is pushing 40 and she might be thinking about settling down. BUT with MY MAN? Oh no no no. Not without a fight.

Lol. I have a list of my reconciliation requirements. A polygraph is one of those requirements. I just need to figure out what questions I want him to be asked. I want them to be specific. People can't really lie and pass those tests could they? I always thought polygraphs were very accurate.