BT, thanks for offering a different perspective.

I will be in 100% agreement with you when we are actually divorced. For now, I believe ww is teaching the kids the wrong lesson by developing friendships with single men while she is still married and in full view of the watchful eyes of a community.

Yes it hurts my feelings that she is so cavalier about the marriage. And yes that's now my problem. But golly, we were separated exactly ONE DAY. My feelings are only part of the issue, however.

Totally right, BT. I really feel that it was important for me to bring up this one issue before going any further with self-recovery. Hopefully it will be the last "last" issue - that's why I'm here, for the reality checks. I can see I'm going to need the support of folks here more than I thought as I move forward.

I've said my piece. I've made my point with both of them. I feel like I've done what I could in that arena to protect my kids.

No, you're right, at this point it's all about cultivating my relationship with the kids. I will end my efforts to control the behavior of others.

~opt

TB makes a good point, opt. I can understand why you sent the emails and still think it was good that you did (now I'll get some 2X4s for sure), but being a BS I can understand the emotion.

That being said, I think the point has been made to WW and POSOM and it's probably time to 'go dark'. A question, though - maybe I missed this - has POSOM been exposed? Have his 'friends', co-workers, etc. been notified that he played a part in busting up your family? If not, it may be too late anyway.

To answer your question about me and Mrs. Linus spending quality time together, the answer unfortunately is not nearly enough. This is my main concern, and she's aware of it. She just doesn't seem as concerned about it as I am, probably because she's not 'into' MB. Still, we're doing well. I just keep reminding myself that it's only been a few months since we really started R, and it's a long, long run. Thanks for the concern.

Hi Optimism, and Larry as well,

I just wanted to specifically wish you both a very Happy Easter. I know that may sound shallow because I have not been on here that long, but but the two of you along with Turtlehead and a few others have helped me more than you and they probably know, in helping me become more objective than dissollusioned and ranting, and also simply to take more objective measures despite the unknown.

Optimism, plese know that you are included in my prayers. I have read all of your story now. Yes Easter dinner may look like a tough time but try to enjoy yourself, your kids, your family, and yes even your WW. I hope that she can put aside for at least a day her lack of self-respect to honor those who have been and still are and most certainly are important in her life.

By the way, C is able now to stand up for herself alot more now that the family has complained to the admin. staff there about what has been going on. Her counselor even brougth a TV to her room for her (the one we gave to her in Jan. was stolen from her room in Feb. when I had her here). And I get weekly reports now from the head nurse there regarding her medication and her outings and also how she is doing walking (last Monday she really had trouble walking, but I took her on three walks, and she has been walking twice a day since then).

The lower-class idiot (best I can describe now) still goes there once a week to visit people he knows there, but Char is alerted and she now goes to her room at that time.

Anyway, Optimism, peace be with you and Larry ..and for the matter all here...now and for always.

Tom

Opt- When I read what you wrote I understood. I din't agree with you doing it because I simply see it as a waste of time and energy on your part. Have you exposed your WW and POSOM to your children yet? It really is a lot easier to explain to them your feelings when they know what you are dealing with. My WH lives with POSOW and he introduced DSx2 to her on CHRISTMAS DAY. They like POSOW and her DD11. They are allowed to like her if they choose. I can't stop them or tell them that their feelings are bad. I have told them who she is and that POSOW and Daddy are making a bad mistake. We raise our children to be independent thinkers and picking if they like or dislike someone is their decision. Just teach your kids right from wrong and don't expect your WW to teach them that right now.

I know it hurts. IT KILLS. I wish I could stop it but I can't and neither can you.

As TB said, take care of the weeds on YOUR side of the fence(kind of a paraphrase).

Opt- I can understand why you sent the emails too. Looks like you let your 'taker' out of his cage there. Are you sure your Plan B would jeopardize your financial arrangement? I think a Plan B would do you good.

I really liked TB's philosophy too but I also know how hard it is to not keep peeking over that fence.

That said, what's done is done. Did she or POSOM reply to your messages?

Happy Easter Everyone. Thanks so much for your concern and thoughts, prayers, sentiments, and guidance. You all mean so much to me.

@Linus and Scot: I have not "exposed" coffee-boy/picture hanger. I have read that Dr. Harley does not recommend that unless there is indisputable proof of foul-play. My problem with WW's relationship with this one is as much a matter of how it brings back the pain of the real/undeniable adulterous EA that started this whole mess. I feel there is an incredible insensitivity on the part of my WW and C-B to carry on their "friendship" in the current climate. I also was really feeling that she is putting her reputation at risk by inviting single men (whatever the true nature of the relationship) literally one day after separation; as my sister stated tonight - "you were probably overreacting." It's over now - results below.

@Tom: We did enjoy Easter. With her family like old times. Everyone was very respectful of the situation and I think it meant a lot for the kids to see us together and supporting each other. I agreed to drive when my son expressed he would like that.

@Limbo: I really feel like my tone may have been harsh, but I sent the right message. It opened up a dialogue with WW that I'll illustrate below. Also yes I did get a response from C-B which allowed me a spring board for expressing some more of my position and sentiments. He is a moron and I'm sure as Scot says it was probably a waste of time. But, I also think I deserve to have my feelings known - he's had his hands in my marriage for months on one level or another; this was my turn. From his response it was pretty clear that he thinks of my wife as more than a friend. People just don't so fiercely defend their relationship with other people's wives if they don't have more serious intentions (even if long term). Conjecture maybe, but no matter. I said what I wanted to say, now I let the chips fall where they may.

Here's where MB and everyone's care and assistance has PAID OFF:
Finally Saturday night (after a tremendous amount of tension between me and WW for a couple days) we had a very serious talk. Started out with a lot of foggy babble, blame shifting, and justifications from WW. Ultimately, however, with a lot of patience and listening and no AO's/DJ's and some re-directing I was able to get something that very few BS's ever get: A sincere apology. I actually heard my WW state with genuine feeling "What I did with OM#1 was wrong." And "I'm sorry for the pain I caused you."

I can't explain it but it really meant a lot to me. I feel hearing her say those words with meaning jumped me forward in my recovery process.

I also feel that it was extremely important to her recovery process. If I can help her learn something from this whole disaster, she will be a better person and a better Mother to my children; I would consider that no small victory.

WW was falling apart when I dropped the kids off this evening. She misses her house, misses me, and feels bad about my son not being around to watch the RedSox with me, etc, etc. Reality is setting in. Sad to see, but I was supportive without mitigating the pain she's feeling too much. I encouraged her to seek help from the right people (implication being: NOT single men).


Thanks again to everyone. It's my first night alone tonight. Knowing you're all "there" for me in spirit is extremely comforting.

~opt

I know where you're coming from, my friend. I remember how I felt when Mrs. Linus finally said how sorry she was. It was like a huge weight being lifted. As you say, it's tough to explain. I'm sure all BSs know how it is, though. I'm glad for you that she took that step.

At least you got to watch the Sox come back against the Evil Empire!!! I feel bad - I fell asleep when it was 5-1, and got a nice surprise when I checked the score this morning. Wish I had made a couple more innings, but it's tough to get old.

Sorry, T/J Alert!!

Opt, why in the heck do they cart out Neil Diamond, for the 7th inning stretch, to sing, 'Sweet Caroline', or whatever the heck it was???? I saw that during last night's game -- which was a great one, by the way....

What did they start puttin' in the Kool Aid at the 'Red Sox Nation' tailgate parties????

Okay, end of T/J. Sorry about that........

TB

Opt,
You won't get any 2x4's from me about the emails..... Yep, a BIG ol' waste of YOUR time, but live and learn.
its time she grows up........ HOWEVER, that isnt going to happen if you continuously play her counselor/ teacher/conscious. It's not your job, never was. I know you are concerned for you kids, but if you are that concerned then you need to go for FULL CUSTODY. You have been trying to educate her for months now and it isn't working, know why? Because you haven't let her experience the full consequences of her actions. day. Yes she does, but she doesn't CARE. Because If she DID care, she wouldn't have had Scumeo come over.

Opt.....GET OUT of the WAY. You have enough on your plate in trying to heal YOU.......you have picked up the pieces of her life throughout your marriage, now the marriage is over. That means you need to give YOURSELF permission to let her fail......and MAYBE once she does that THEN she can maybe do the hard work of growing up........

Not2fun

~opt [/quote]

Opt, I totally agree with N2F here........

Take care of yourself and do your best to support your kids. It's time to sit back and let W ride the bike without the training wheels. She WANTS TO. And if she doesn't want to wear a helmet while doing it, that is HER DECISION.......

TB

Well put. Crash and burn, comin' right up!

Hey no problem on the tj. I guess it's some sort of tradition to sing Sweet Caroline in the seventh inning at Fenway. No idea when it started; not a long time Bostonian or anything and really never got into baseball until my kid became a LL pitcher. Personally Niel Diamond's voice literally turns my stomach. I think I must have heard that song when I was child and had the flu or something, it's to the point of being a family joke.

Did you see the large mouth bass singing GBA? (and of course her Father, Steven Tyler...)

Great game. They're going all the way.

~opt

Once again you've given me a lot to think about Not2Fun. I'm going to try, you know I will.


Okay, I'm posting that on my wall.
I suppose due to my own weaknesses, I've enabled her dysfunction (by not speaking up, not being totally honest, not pursuing my own needs, etc); this is also my chance to experience the full impact of my own behaviors.

thanks N2Fun.

~optimism

I still think a Plan B of some sort would help. What about establishing new boundaries at the least?

You're right SoL. However, I really want to get the court date behind me before I change my approach too much.

I'm not writhing in pain like I was before, and in the big picture, I really don't have much to complain about...or protect myself from at this point. The advice I've gotten here has helped me look at this whole thing in such a way that I don't feel Plan B is necessary at this point for my own sanity (like it is in many cases) - make sense? It's late.

As for new boundaries. They are established. The hump I just went over with picture hanger I think was the last hurdle in my being concerned about her activities & exploits. I've resolved to converse with her strictly about childcare issues and logistics. I don't think that excludes listening if she wants to talk to me about where she's at emotionally, but I'm not going to let it affect me emotionally. I'm not talking about being her shrink either, just a pair of ears.

I'll update about how that's going, but right now that's my plan.

~opt

No, it doesn't make sense......and IF you could see what WE see, you would know that your sanity IS at stake. Opt, you are flying from one end of the spectrum to the other. Stop letting your feelings rule your decsions and let common sense do it......(I know I'm being hard BUT dangit....... ....I already know the next chapter if you continue doing this....)

This staement is in direct conflict with......

this.....

Which is it gonna be??? .... Because you can't do both!!!

If she wants to talk she can go elsewhere to do it. Yeah she will probably get bad advice but ULTIMATELY her decisions about her life are hers to own. By being her dumping ground all you will do is allow HER to mess up your own moral meter.......and keep yourself wallowing in her toxic sewage.....YUCK!!!!

For your own self-respect and the respect of your children (because when the become adults and can look back and see the big picture, their respect for you WILL deminish.... BTDT), STEP AWAY......

Not2fun

I don't doubt you a bit;

I've thought a lot about what you are saying and I can totally see your point.

Can you give me some pointers on how to transition into a 'darkness' ? Plan B letter? Explanation of my position? How do I explain it to the kids (as it is they wanted to invite Mom over for dinner on Thursday, my night - I literally didn't answer but plan to let them know somehow that we can't be doing that).

~opt

My floors look great, I plan to paint the baseboards next week. And I have dinners planned for the kids each night this week. I'm taking work more seriously and I played pool tonight. I'm going to be okay. At the same time I have a lot of healing to do...

Okay. Why don't YOU want to do Plan B? What are the reasons? IF you were telling a newbie about MB when would you tell them they should go into plan B? Just curious.

I understand completely on wanting to maintain the course. You know yourself better than anyone else.