That's funny because I never saw your comment as sarcastic......i read that comment with the eyes of a Betrayed Wife.......which wasn't fair to you because what I read wasn't what you MEANT......(and now you all know why I usually stay on SaA.......it's hard form me to keep in mind that those over here aren't dealing with those circumstances.......)...... It's all good though.....

Not2,

Thanks for sharing that.

You gave me quote a lot to consider.

ChrisNOVA,
Hi! I'm mostly a lurker on MB, but I've been reading on the board for years and have been following your thread off and on. I apologize for barging in on your thread, but I just wanted to say something to . . .

LA,
Thank you for posting this. I have a tried to address specific instances of hurtful sarcasm on the board before in the past, but didn't seem to get anywhere with it. So when I read the sarcastic post, I literally closed my browser and walked away. I'm glad you said what you did.

Seeing things through the eyes of a betrayed wife would make a big difference. And yet I'm glad you look at the things posted here, because we need different eyes. OUR eyes are what got us here in the first place

My H is really trying (as am I)...We have had a few less than ideal exchanges (for example the most recent thing about keeping our child home). Another one was: Yesterday, he got angry in response to something I failed to do. No AO or anything, but I could see the tension, etc. Pre-MB I would have responded poorly (I think) to this "signal" of anger. What I did this time is ...I paused & took a breath, acknowledged that he was angry, and then I simply apologized for not getting thing "x" done. I did that with no expectation for him to stop being angry because of the acknowledgement & apology. Not sure if it was my new way of handling things or the uptick in Love Account balances, but he seemed to get over it much more quickly than in the past. I'm talking a minute or two instead of hours.

So, generally, things have been really good, and I seem to be OK... except every now and then, the thought "Why am I bothering with this?" crosses my mind. Why is that happening to me?

I am reminded that my IC pointed out that I seem to want to sabotage our progress. She said she's seen it before in counseling couples - one person gets mad at the person who "changes" for the better because they get to thinking "If you can be so great NOW, why the heck couldn't you do it before?"

Is my thought a fairly typical reaction?

Does anyone know how to deal with this?

Well, I tend to do the same thing. I keep reminding myself that the goal is to move forward and have a happy and healthy marriage with THIS MAN, and ask myself if it's helpful to the end goal to be mad at him because he didn't do things ON MY SCHEDULE.

Ultimately, it's something *we* have to decide to let go of. *shrug* some days it's harder than others.

Other thoughts:

Taking an honest inventory of my M, I had to conclude that in many ways my H is a wonderful husband. He has no qualms about doing his fair share (or more) of domestic duties (cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc.) & child rearing activities. He is a gracious host when we have company, he gladly goes shopping with me (thinks it's fun), and whenever I hint at wanting something to happen or wanting a repair / alteration to the house or my truck, or if I express an interest in taking a trip somewhere...magically it happens. Listening to other women complain about their husbands is a real wake up for me.

One thing which stands between my H and I (from my perspective) is his propensity for AO. That has always been the main issue from my perspective. And - heck - it's a pretty big issue isn't it?

Now, there's the flirtatious text message and the absurd reason he gave for that flirtatious text message. GAH! Why can't I let that text message thing go? Maybe I idealized him too much...


Now, with the text message & learning MB, I have to acccept that he is a human being and just like any of us - he can engage in bad behavior too. Realty check for Chris. Yay.

Another LB for me is his weight. In the book, His Needs Her Needs, Dr H spends quite a bit of time talking about how a man needs an attractive wife and he goes into hair, makeup, exercise, & clothing - especially clothing a wife wears in the house when only your H can see you. (I saw this early on in MB and I decided that I would look provocative in the house at all times...at first it was a little bit of a chore, but now it's second nature...effortless...)

Anyway - Dr H talks about how physical attractiveness in their mate is not necessarily a high EN for most females. Well, I guess I am in the "not most females" category. My H is a very handsome man - but at this time in his life he is overweight - not grotesquely so ...but enough. I have gently mentioned my H's weight to him recently; however, it was within the context of "health" not "appearance". Interestingly enough, he went jogging yesterday. I am hoping this continues.

Background:
My H had a verbal AO. It was in response to something I suggested regarding directions to a destination which we were unfamilar with. No cursing this time, but speaking louder than a conversational tone...and, in my estimation - verbally aggressive. Our child was in the car with us.

When this happened, I told him he seemed to be upset with my suggestion. I asked him if he could tell me what it was about my suggestion which upset him because I didn't want to do the same thing again. He stopped and thought for a minute and then he said "Wow. I guess I overreacted. I'm sorry." I changed the subject.

Questions:
1) I am not sure if this exchange was a good thing or not. Was it?

2) Was changing the subject immediately afterwards the best course of action or should I have verbally acknowledged the apology?

3) Is it a sign of progress that the AOs are less frequent and less intense?

IMO, yes.

Some sort of acknowledgment on your part may have encouraged him. We all need encouragement. I don't think it even has to be verbal -- Markos apologized to me this morning for a DJ that really hurt me, and my response was a smile. I think it helped.


YES!

It's very difficult to stop bad habits, even LB, on a dime. It takes work, over time, and most of us are likely to slip up now and then. But if he's doing better now than he was a month ago, then it's progress. Steve basically told me that on the phone last Monday after Markos had a AO with me, but I spent a few days moping before I finally accepted it. Markos AO and DJ are less frequent and intense, and it's progress!

I think it is a sign of progress too.

And I can relate to the self-sabatoge and agree that it is very common.

I don't think you should just "let go" of the text message. That is part of protecting your marriage, and until your DH is doing that himself to your satisfaction, you need to do it.

And I am also one of those people who needs an attractive spouse. I don't mean that he has to change something physically about himself. But definitely dressing sharp is a huge turn on, while jeans and Ts every day gets old. I don't mind lack of shaving on the weekend, but I think if you're going to go through all of the sacrifice to get a better place in a company by being on call and working extra hours, you should also dress the part, too. Every day.

My husband also does a lot for me that I am grateful for. But if the activitied he does do not really fill my EN, then something is lacking. So while gratitude for those things is important, it's even more important for me to know what my biggest EN are, and to ask my husband to put his attention THERE, even if it means some of the domestic help goes by the wayside.

I think it is. I know I've felt it, and to some extent I still do. As for how to deal with it...for me, I have to learn to let go of my resentment. As some folks on here used to say, 'Do you want to be right or do you want to be married'?

As for the weight issue - is AS in your top 5 emotional needs? If not, honestly, I'd let it go for now. There are things you can do to help him lose weight - healthier meals, pack healthier lunches for him so he doesn't eat out, go on walks with him - but I think he's a long way from losing weight and getting in shape to fulfill your (valid) need for an attractive spouse.

Please explain.

Chris, when I went to Weight Watchers, all the women there would talk about how their Hs would lose weight without even knowing it, just from the going for walks together, serving food on smaller plates, not buying sweets for the house, packing lunches for both of them, cooking more veggies with dinner, and putting the leftovers in the fridge before the family sat down to dinner, instead of making seconds available. Other posters on the board have done some of these things, too, with success.

I am scratching my head at the tone of your post. If you don't want me on your thread, that's fine, I won't waste my time here. I freely admit I'm bad at taking hints.

My points were simply:

A. The EN for an attractive spouse is a valid need.
B. Your H may not be in a mental or emotional state to lose weight in order to fulfill one of your EN's. You guys are still working on his AO's (I think the above was great progress). Wasn't it just a few weeks ago that he said maybe he didn't want a divorce after all?

Thus my question about whether AS is in your top 5 emotional needs: if it's not, I'd wait until things are better to work on things that far down the list.

Bit,

Thanks for the clarification. I understand what you meant now.

I did not mean to have a "tone" when I typed "please explain." I was just asking for clarification. If I wanted you to exit my thread, I would have said it plainly. I thnk most people know by now that I'm not shy.

OK, it's only been a day since I have installed EBlaster on my H's personal PC and here's what I have so far: Nothing surprising or out the ordinary. My H received a few emails, viewed Porn for about 10 minutes and he also spent about 5-6 minutes on the official web site of his favorite football team before he came up to bed last night.

I would like to talk about the porn:

At this point I have stopped looking at porn because of what I have learned here @ MB. I would like to address the porn thing with my H.

The situation is - Right now, my H gets porn pictures and jokes sent to him via text message by a male friend almost daily and he visits free porn sites on the web ocassionally. Before learning about MB, I didn't think anything was wrong with viewing porn, and I even viewed porn ocassionally myself. My H does too. We each know / knew this about the other. My H also knows I have vibrators.

I have learned that Dr H. says porn is a no-no because we should not be seeking sexual experiences without our spouse. Learning that - I stopped viewing the porn. I have not shared the MB philosophy regarding porn with my H; however, I have incorporated it into my behavior and thinking.

I think I could gently introduce the topic when we discuss the LB & EN Quizzes next week. I listed the porn under "annoying habits" this way in part C of section 5. Annoying Habits:


Any ideas / thoughts / comments?


*Also posting this on the other side for assistance from that perspective

My husband admitted an "addiction" to porn several months into our marriage. My reaction was surprising even to me.

I was honored that he was so honest with me.

I was RELIEVED because now I had validation that the problems in our young marriage were not just MY fault. I wasn't looking to place blame, but at the same time, was glad to know that our problems, especially our sexual problems, had causes on both sides and not just me.

I really don't know if my husband is "addicted" or not, or the extent of how his addiction affects his life. He is the one who uses the term addiction. I used to believe that all guys looked and that he was normal. I really don't know what is normal or healthy. But if HE believes it's a problem, what I know or believe doesn't really matter.

What I do know is that he has been doing it since he was first introduced by his FATHER when he was about 10. So it's a long-term problem.

Also, that right now it's mostly internet. He doesn't pay for it. And that he usually can't go more than a day or two without looking. Except for recently when he went for over a month without looking, and I can tell you I have never seen him angrier, nastier, meaner, more miserable, more stressed, physically exhausted, in pain, etc. than during that month. I think I mentioned that I initiated SF and that seemed to be a turning point for him when he started responding to me again, coming out of withdrawl. I asked him a few days later about how the no porn thing was going and he admitted to breaking down (the same time we had SF).

I can track what his porn habits are based on his moods. If he's moderately content, he's probably looking. If he's anxious, miserable and taking it out on everyone around him, he's trying to abstain.

This is also how I agree that it is possibly addiction. Because he can't stop, and when he tries, it's so bad that I would rather he keep looking.

Chris, it is great that you guys are going to be going over those questionnaires! That's spectacular!

I do think your husband's use of porn should be on the questionnaire. It might go better under "independent behavior," although I think quibbling over exactly which "Love Buster" category a hurtful act should be classified as can be a bit of a waste of time.

It is possible your husband would challenge you for including this with the fact that you have done it to and that both of you have previously been okay with that. In that case, I think your answer should be something like "I have come to realize that it is something that hurts me and is withdrawing units from your account in my love bank. I realize that it is a Love Buster, so I listed it." You can also let him know that you have quit doing it yourself.

Thinking,

Thanks for sharing this. At this point my perception is that neither my husband nor I have an "addiction" to porn.


Markos,

I am in agreement with the idea that in any conversation about porn with my H, I will need to describe my new POV re/ my viewing of porn & the fact that I stopped. I think that I addressed that in the comment though.

One person over @ SAA said that if I place it on the questionnaire, I could risk blowing the cover on my snooping activitites. Then Limbo made this suggestion... --->



I especially like the part about "focusing on each other."

What do you guys think?

This is similar to where my husband and I are on alcohol. Whenever I start to address it, he responds with "well you used to drink. why do you have a problem with it now." And then I have to be honest and tell him that it's not alcohol per se I have a problem with, it's the extent to which he is using it and how that affects our relationship.

Perhaps you could position porn the same way.

I hope you are more successful than I have been.