When fears of divorce came to my head I know that I reminded myself that I tried my best to save my marriage, it was not my fault that my spouse cheated on me, and that I would come out of this mess as a better person either way.

If we stayed together we both would have to make drastic changes to our lives, and we both would come out as better people.

If I stayed married to an adulterer, well there is no growth there, and I would be a failure. Letting my spouce trmple all over me for how many more years?

In essence you can become a stronger, more refined person if either situation arises. If it comes down to the big D, you will know that you tried your best, and none of it was your fault.

Thanks MB. BTW, what does POS mean? I looked on the abbreviations page but couldn't find it.

Right now I still think about all of the mistakes I made. While we were dating and during our marriage up until now. I know that none of those things are justifications for him to cheat like this and to say awful things about how our marriage isn't valid and other hurtful things. Yet it is still hard to keep from going over everything I did wrong. Not to justify his A, I know that it doesn't justify it, I guess I'm thinking about it b/c I really want to make it to recovery and I am hoping he will believe there is something worth saving. I truly love him and I believe he truly loved me. No matter what happened I know that can be a starting point. Do you believe marriages can survive anything? (other than an ongoing affair of course)

He hasn't contacted me at all today. I have gotten different advice on here about that. Some tell me to contact him all I want and a few others said to let him come to me. What would you think at this point? He did text me late last night asking me to tell the boys that he loves them and that they are warriors and men of God. He said he used to tell them that every night before bed. I know he misses his kids. But I want him to miss me too. What makes you think he is in great conflict right now? Simply because I have his kids?

Thanks WS.

I know that I am doing the best I can and I am fighting for my M. I am holding onto my faith and trying my hardest to put fears of D out of my head. Although it is hard right now for me not to go over my mistakes as a wife. Sometimes it feels as though I was worse than all the other women out there. (I know this does not justify his A)

I am learning a lot here on how to be a better partner. I wish I would have known this information before. I wish we had gone to a better counselor a few years back when we did go. A whole lot of I wish....

I believe that our M has died in a way and I know that once something dies it can become something even better. Something new. Like Jesus talked about the seed dying: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit." I believe our M can be better than ever, and brand new if my WH would re-route himself back home.

And I will keep in mind that if he does go to D I will have done all I could. I would have tried my hardest.

Tinker,

You are right - your marriage has died. You actually want that old marriage to die, in a way, because it wasn't working. What is happening now is evidence that it needed some changes. So maybe the foundation needs to remain, and the two of you need to rebuild that marriage.


I read in one of your posts where you said that your marriage was 99% crap.

Nope.

That is YOU rewriting marital history.

See, your WH is very good at rewriting the marital history, and now you are starting to do it, too.

You need to get out some photos, woman. You need to look back at your marriage with your REALITY glasses on. Because if your marriage has been 99% crap, you never would have made three children with this man. You would have run for the doors before the one-year mark, and you know it. Anybody would have, because nobody could live 24/7 with crap all around.

Think about your marriage when you first started out. Your hopes together, your dreams. When we struggle, we pull together. We spend little money, but we spend time together doing simple things - and that time bonds us to one another. Those early days of your marriage were loving and simple and you need to focus on that foundation of why you loved him, and where you have been "in love" with him.

Your Plan A time is hard work, and the rollercoaster will take you down down down down down down down. But remember that it will also have highs - he will call and say something that gives you hope and take you all the way back up again.

This is very tough on the heart. Pay attention to your heart, and know when the time is right to move to Plan B. Ask someone now, someone you trust, to be an intermediary should it "ever" become necessary. It might not ever be needed. But it would help to know that someone is there for you, if you need to pull the plug.

SB

Probably isn't sanctioned 'Piece of [I'll go ahead and censor myself]'

You are going through a time of personal assessment and inventory, and there's nothing wrong with that, as long as you are using what you come up with in a positive way. That's normal. It's actually a good thing to do while in Plan A.

Your WH is going through conflict because he's out of his family element and the comforts it proveded. Especially because of the boys.

POS! LOL! I should have gotten that. haha. Now I understand POSOW...I was so confused there for awhile.

So it would be normal for him (because of him being so conflicted) to not call for days and to only text a few things here and there? I know I can't try to decipher every single thing he does. That was driving me nuts. But I guess I want to know that he still cares, even if it's just a little bit. Some would say that if he goes days without calling and only texts a bit here and there then that means he really is glad we're gone. I don't want to think that. So I like to look at all angles of this. Maybe he is feeling guilt or feeling sad or whatever. I don't know. I just hope it isn't because he's decided he's done for good and doesn't care.

Thanks SB.

Yes I know I said something about my marriage being 99% crap. I think I was talking about my WH painting it that way. Or I meant it in a way that means I was the main crap part of the marriage. Somehow I'm pretty sure I was taking the blame for it all. Probably b/c the infidelity on my part happened 3 months into the marriage. Which is really really bad I know. We had been together for 2 and a half years before we got married so it wasn't like we were still in the "in love" or whtaever stage.

But like you all have said, he can't use that against me since he forgave and we moved forward. That is one of the things that keeps replaying in my mind. Although the circumstances of that event were much different than what he is doing right now. I showed him through my actions that I was no longer drinking too much, I was no longer drinking without him, I was not going out to any bars at all, I was spending time with him and trying to love him best I could. So those were my ways of showing him I made a terrible mistake but it would NEVER happen again. But I also did bad things, like become suspicious of him and accuse him of wanting to cheat.

I wish that HE would see the mistake HE is making and show me ACTIONS that he is remorseful and that it will never happen again. This rollercoaster ride he is taking me on is tearing me apart. I am healthy and baby is healthy thank God but that is b/c I force myself to become numb after crying myself to sleep or throughout the day. I hate thinking about the good times in our R because it just makes me sad. It makes me think we'll never have that again. I hate hearing about people getting married. It makes me sad.

To feel so rejected is horrible. I feel like a piece of trash to him. No matter what I did throughout our relationship I NEVER meant to make him feel like a rejected piece of trash. If I did,it was not on purpose. Even when the infidelity happened. I did that b/c I felt like a piece of trash. If he really understood what happened that night he would know that it wasn't FUN for me and it was SICK and it was very BRIEF b/c I saw my future being wrecked b/c of this stupid mistake I was making and I stopped. I was very remorseful. That is why I do'nt understand why HE is not remorseful yet. But yes, the wayward is different. They are caught up and addicted. I get that. I was not "addicted" to anything other than alcohol and I quit that cold turkey. So I wish he would quit this AFFAIR cold turkey.

If he just would have really TALKED to me I would have listened and I would have started meeting his needs. I would have been aware. But he never really talked with me. He would talk AT me during fights but he never really sat down to tell me how he felt. Maybe he has wanted out for a long time and now finally found a reason? But why would he make a 3rd baby with me after two miscarriages last year? WHY? He knew all of this when he made this baby with me. WHY...........

I know just how you feel Tink.....exactly in the same shoes, exactly my same thoughts. Let's lean on each other and get through this.

I've been praying to God that my WH gains clarity over this fog he's in right now, and sees what he's actually going to lose if his A continues.

Thanks SG. I have been praying for the same thing.

So everyone, today has been up and down. I was crying a lot this morning, but got out of the house throughout the day and tonight I'm going to see my brother for dinner. So being busy has helped keep my mind off of things. For the time being atleast.

I have heard from WH twice today through texts. Just stuff about the boys. I'm beginning to feel like I'm just his children's mother and that's it. I guess that is what I am right now to him. That hurts a lot. He hasn't called but said he would call later. We'll see if that happens.

Anyone know of any signs that the A is fizzling out or altogether ending? I know that is wishful thinking this early on, but if he does stop this while I'm still in plan A then signs that all is not well in A fantasy land would be nice to know. I know that eventually reality will set in. Does anyone else have a problem with thinking that maybe the OW is fulfilling him so much and making him so happy that he'll never want to come back?

Also, if he decides he wants to come back to the family and it is only for the sake of the kids, should I rebuild with him anyway and hope he regains his feelings of love for me? Or should I not accept him returning only for the kids? He should want me back if he really wants this to work.

I am trying to get my plan together for when he is here for the birth. I want to talk with him as calmly and lovingly as possible about this whole situation. If he wants to go back to CA then obviously a lot of things would have to be different. Like, we need a second car, we need a bigger place to live, we need more money. If he can't provide that for us then I don't see the point of being there, even if he wants to give up his A and rebuild with me. I would say if that's the case then he should come to Iowa. And if he still is hanging onto his justifications and not showing any signs of wanting to change, well then I guess it's plan B. Oh how I do'nt want to go there.

Larry- I know you're following. Any help you have at this point I am ready!!!

Okay. First, the feelings that your WH is getting everything met by POSOW and not coming home to you is COMPLETELY normal.

Have you read SAA(the book)yet?

Now as far as you being JUST the mother to his children, being in a full blown A does that. You are not only the mother to his children, you are also the enemy against his A. That's a good thing from your POV, but from HIS? Not so much. That is why you rise above and do your BEST Plan A. If the time comes that you have to go to Plan B, you will realize it. It will be done to preserve your sanity.

Write down all of your possibilities for Recovery in both Iowa and Cali, and what you would Plan if he was to never return. Get your PLAN together.

Keeping busy really is a HUGE help.

Take care of yourself.

Yeah I'm working on the possibilies for recovery in California. But that one seems like a toughy. She will be in a near by city, easily accessible. As far as the job thing goes, well, if he were to switch to another gym then there goes all his clients. And there goes all his income for the time being. I highly doubt vampira would quit her job willingly. She would have to be fired. She has some health problem with her heart and having panic attacks or something. Some stuff she told my WH before I left. He won't tell me all the details. He feels so "bad" for her. I know that was just another tool of her manipulation to get him stuck to her. So maybe her health problem will keep her from working. But I doubt it. I highly doubt it is as serious as she makes it out to be. *rolls eyes*

BTW, I should have asked this awhile ago. But isn't there something WRONG with a 40 year old woman who is so attached to a 12 yr her junior, married man with kids? I mean, I know why it's wrong but the fact that she is so much older really is weird. I know there's the whole "cougar" mentality out there. It is just so immature. There must be serious issues that vampira has within herself to need a younger,married man to make her feel good. Wish my WH would see this. HA. The fog is a powerful effing b*tch.

Would it have been okay if HE was older than HER? Could you understand it then? NOPE still wrong.

You could use the same argument in reverse. What is wrong with a married father that he would have an affair with an almost 40 year old woman.

Don't focus all of this on HER. Your WH did this too.

The whole living and recovering in Cali part is the hardest. That's why I suggested you write them down. If that is a huge problem, the it isn't an option for you. Come up with YOUR requirements for recovery.

So did you read Surviving An Affair by Dr Willard Harley Jr?

Plan A is hard - remember no expectations! Nothing, don't worry about what he's doing because it's out of your control just focus on your interactions wtih him, focus on yourself what you need to do to not lovebust.

I'd write down all possibilites and do my pros and con lists. and then when you guys are in recovery you both can figure it out together.

Hi Tink:


Others have done a great job and I can add a few things. I have been in a HUGE altercation today that kept me from tending to those I have empathy for.

But I will get back to it this evening.

Larry

tinker,

I know this is hard to understand, but the affair is actually NOT about his other woman.

The OW could be anyone, really, who was near and convenient. It could have been a 22 year old, a 39 year old, vampira, or someone's grandma. Seriously. Because the affair is NOT about who the OW is. The affair is about YOUR HUSBAND.

It is not about YOU, either.

No matter what your husband tries to tell you, the affair is not about you or your behavior, your qualities as a person, or whether or not you did the dishes on time. It has nothing to do with what you did back in 1993, 2001, or in college either. It has nothing to do with that at all. It has to do with your husband's poor ability to deal with his needs in the marriage, deal with your needs in the marriage, and his obviously VAST DISABILITIES in being able to negotiate the marital relationship in a manner that results in a mutually beneficial result for the both of you.

He could have chosen any number of alternatives to deal with having his needs met, for dealing with difficulties (perceived or otherwise) in the marriage, and for dealing with his so-called inner angst regarding the past.

Those options, as YOU WELL KNOW:

1. Talk openly with YOU.
2. Write a letter to YOU.
3. Arrange for counseling with a pastor.
4. Ask a Christian friend for advice and to sit down with the two of you to work out the situation, as is described in the Bible.
5. Ask a trusted relative for advice.
6. Ask an older married couple for help.
7. Ask you to read marriage materials with him.
8. Review materials on the Internet and attempt recovery information and ideas on his own.
9. Call Dr. Phil.

That list goes on, you know............


But nowhere on that list is the option of having an affair and choosing another woman over your family and wife. Nope.


See, it was his CHOICE to ignore all of the options. It was because he did not WANT those options. Why? Because there WAS NO PROBLEM - at least not the one he has made up - that required such intervention. The "problem" that came up was...


He wanted to have an affair. He was tempted. And he found himself being "confused" because he had never thought he would have these feelings.


THAT'S when YOU suddenly became the wife who had this "problematic past".

And not ONE MINUTE BEFORE.



Take it to the bank. He had a wanderlust BEFORE you had a bad past - because he betrayed the thought in his mind and THEN blamed you NEXT.

I. Guarantee. This.



This is how affairs begin. This is the mental process.


SB

SB

Have you ever thought about taking up the counseling trade?

Larry

Tink:

I have a question. I have been reading your thread again. I failed to ask a question earlier. I don't want to open wounds, I am just seeking knowledge. I may have failed to give you good information at a point in time; how to handle something.

My question is when did your husband learn about the two make out session? And under what circumstances did he learn?

Schoolbus did good, now didn't she

Larry

Hey Larry,

Well, the two guys from college thing was more than making out. Let me just make sure that is clear. It was NOT intercourse but it was not just kissing.

My husband found out because I told him. The circumstances were that he was always wanting to know if there was something I hadn't told him from the past. He would always bring it up mainly when we fought. So I decided to tell him because I thought he would forgive me and move forward because I trusted him and his love for me. It happened before we started dating so I thought he of course would be upset but not to the point of breaking up our marriage.

Does this change anything? I really want to know.....

I still don't feel safe. I feel like I'm nothing to him other than a piece of trash that he can just throw away without a care in the world.

Also, this is what he texted me last night:

"I am not avoiding you. I am kinda withdrawn from reality right now. Things are rough for me right now..."

Then he called me today and he sounded distant but at the same time I could tell something was bothering him. Maybe it's that he doesn't like to talk to me?

SB-

You have helped me to see clearly when I was all caught up in emotion.

You have explained things very well and I am really starting to understand everything that led up to this. I am so desperate right now even though I am getting knowledge and I have a plan. I'm still scared and I hate looking at old pictures and being in a house full of good memories with him. I feel like that is all I have left of him. And it scares me.

We had been talking about our dreams that we had for our FAMILY for the last 3 years, even up until he left for California. We had so many plans. Now I am so upset that those plans are shattered for the time being. Those dreams are up in smoke unless he does a 180 and gets his head on straight.

I am still doing plan A. It's been rough. I am concerned he won't come back for the birth. I asked him if he had thought about when he wants to come out and he said he hasn't "gotten that far yet". I will be 37 weeks on Wednesday. Any time after that I could have the baby. I have a feeling it will be around 39 weeks. That's just the feelin I have. I obviously could be wrong. But anyway, if I go to 40 weeks then that only leaves 3 weeks for him to get his stuff together and get here. If he doesn't come then where should I go from there? Straight to plan B?

Desperation is par for the course here. It is.
Of course you will get scared. Human nature.

Keep making plans for your future. Anticipate the birth with wonder. Yay.

If he is there for it, fine. If not, fine. Does he really need to be in the room seeing you push him/her out into the world. No. That is a special honor for a loving H.

If he does get to be there and in the room for it.....hopefully it won't irritate you with the added layers of relationship worry.

Anyway.
When he texts you something like
"I am not avoiding you. I am kinda withdrawn from reality right now. Things are rough for me right now..."
You can text back something like
"I hope you feel better soon."
(we know that what he is going through can not be as rough as you being a very pregnant, betrayed spouse.....he is of course being a typical self involved wayward).