Well back to a reasonable discussion -

Tink - Wondering if hubby is sending money for the kids and you. If he isn't, you need to file in court for support. No sense in helping to finance his affair.

OK- melodylane....how did I "trick" my husband? These were not ex "lovers" of mine. These were two separate events that happened while drunk AND it was before we dated. I never dated either of those guys and I never had anything to do with them after that unless it involved school. One guy was "friends" with my H but not good friends. They played b-ball together. I know I should have told him the WHOLE truth. I know that. But I didn't intentionally "trick" him. It wasn't some sinister plan. I realize dishonesty is very hurtful and can make someone to feel like the whole marriage was a fraud. But really, something that happened while drunk in college BEFORE we dated is a good reason to leave their wife? We have a FAMILY together. Yes I EFFED up but I did tell him the truth and I told him calmly and not during any argument or anything like that. So really, why would he have a valid reason to D me? There have been couples who have had WORSE secrets that came out and guess what? The offended spouse was hurt but they stayed committed and worked it out because they LOVED their spouse. I would like to believe my H LOVES me enough to work that out. I KNOW IN MY HEART if he were to tell me something similar I would be hurt. Damn straight. Yes I would. But I would NOT leave him and I would still LOVE him as much as I always have. He did deserve to know everything, yes he did. I messed up. But I LOVE him and if he truly loved me we wouldn't be where we are today. Look, I'm willing to FORGIVE him for an AFFAIR. I LOVE him that much. I want to make it work THAT MUCH. And the affair is what is going on right now.

Well Tink, the next time that you feel like your WH has a reason to leave you because you didn't tell him about your past, I am going to pull your own words up to you. I know you are hurt by what people said, but now you realize that he had no excuse for an A.

DGMW, I also agree with MelodyLane about HH. The only thing is, when I started dating my WH and up until 5 months ago, I didn't know how important it was. My WH kept something from me too, and I was hurt and it made me question what else was he lying about. It wasn't something that would have changed if I would have married him though. If it was something like that, I may have felt different.

We are all here to learn. Do you now think that IF you had a NEW relationship that it would be important to have HH?

No, it's not that I was upset about "his right to know". I understand that completely. I should have told him the entire truth about those two events. I really wish I could go back but I can't. What I was upset about is that people were saying that I "tricked" him into marrying me. This wasn't some big plan I had. I didn't mean to do this. I was embarrassed and scared he wouldn't love me anymore if I told him. Because he KNEW these two guys from school. We were in class with one of them. It's bad I know. But all this happened before we dated. I know he deserved to know everything. I messed up. But I don't think he should D me over something like this. I know that if he had some secret about a woman or women he didn't tell me about I wouldn't like it and I would be hurt but I wouldn't talk about leaving him. I am here for better or for worse. I meant it when I said that. And when we first started dating I was 19, so was he. I was very unstable and immature. But I LOVED him. I still do. I just don't want our family torn apart over my dishonesty about two stupid things from college. I realize that the real threat right now is the A. Obviously. But he is using the PAST and my DISHONESTY to justify himself and to threaten me with him leaving. When I told him the truth about what happened in college he was upset. He said why didn't I tell him back then. Maybe he never would have dated me. Maybe we never would have married. Ok. But he KNEW while we were dating EVERYTHING else about my past sexual experiences. He knew a lot worse than what happened in college. So for some reason I don't believe he would have dumped me. I don't think you should dump someone for past mistakes they made. Unless of course they were a murderer or child molestor. That's just my opinion. In today's world most young people have had sexual experiences. I WISH I could go back and remain a virgin until I married my Husband. I really do. But I can't. I just wish he loved me enough to stop his A and get over the past with me.

Oh wow Tink. believer has hit a nerve, she is good at that. So is he sending money? Is it enough?

Larry

Tinkerbell, you obviously cannot change the past, but it is not up TO YOU whether he should divorce you over that dishonesty. It might not have been relevant to you, but it was apparently relevant to him. Only *HE* can decide what is relevant to him. NOT YOU.

What you are saying here is that it is ok to LIE as long as it is to avoid the consequences. Is it ok if he treats you the same way? Can he decide what is or isn't relevant for you to know?


Even you ADMIT you know this would have changed his feelings but you justified the dishonesty by saying there would be consequences. That is not a reasonable justification to trick someone. And yes, you did trick him.

Larry-

I did not tell him about the past events in anger. I came to him and said I needed to talk to him about something and then I told him. I knew it would cause damage. I knew he would be upset with me and he had every right to be.

As far as my character goes. Well, I told him everything else about my horrid past while we were dating. He knew I was a self destructive teenager and that I abused alcohol and did many many stupid things. He knew the number of boys I had slept with and he knew the other sexual things I had done prior to college. He knew that I was a big fat drunken whore for a few years of my life. He also knew that I REGRETTED all of those things. He knew that I had an interest in going to church and that I believed in God. He knew that I only wanted to date him and that I only wanted to be with him. I was still somewhat neurotic when we were dating and when we got married, but he knew that. I had emotional problems. These have been getting a lot better over the past 3-4 years. He has even admitted to that. He knows my true character. I am not who I was before I dated him. I am not who I was when I made awful mistake in our marriage. I just don't think a marriage needs to end over dishonesty about something from before you were dating.

Would these other people like to speak for God like my husband does and tell me that God says my marriage may be "invalid" because of my dishonesty? I would like to know.
Anybody remember Rachel and Leah? Well, that was real trickery. What Leah's father did. And yet God wanted Jacob to remain married to her. Yeah, Leah wasn't dishonest but she still went along with it. I'm not saying what I did was right. But I don't think it's right to say I "tricked" him. It wasn't some thought out plan. AND I believe God does see my M as valid.

And guess what? My H had slept with me BEFORE he KNEW even 50% of my past in any way shape or form. He also had told me he LOVED me and wanted me to be his WIFE before he knew even 50% of my past. Hmmmm...so is love based on how "good" of a person you were before you dated someone? Is that what we should base dating on? Their past?

Well the "trickery" was not on purpose no matter what people may think. I didn't plan this out. And if he were to tell me something he did in college before we dated I wouldn't divorce him. I already said yes I would be upset. But I don't think that is a reason to divorce. Yeah, if he wants to D me that is his choice. I personally think that people shouldn't give up so easily on their spouses. I can't change the past. I made a mistake. I should have told him the entire truth about it. So maybe I should take what he says about God thinking our marriage is invalid seriously. Atleast, I would think you would say I should. God, can anyone be forgiven for their mistakes? I am willing to forgive him for an affair. But he can't forgive me for something very dumb that I did in college and for the fact that I was dishonest? That isn't forgivable? Or it is but that doesn't mean the two should stay together? He says he still loves me. Isn't that enough reason to go to counseling and to really try? Wow the way you talk it sounds like I should just throw in the towel.

And ML-

Why did you stay with your spouse if you felt the same way my H does? Seems to me that you think my situation is hopeless. So, again...why did you stay with your H?

He has sent some money. It's enough for now. We'll see how much he sends in a week or so. Also when he comes back for the birth he should bring some money for the boys.

Just a word to the wise from a former professional liar, tinkerbell. Elaborate rationalizations when caught lying are not compelling or convincing to those around us. It just makes us look bad.

When we spend more time rationalizing our lies than apologizing for them, it gives people the impression that we are not really sorry for our lies, but just sorry we got caught and too much of a weasel to face the consequences. That does not reflect well on our character.

A better response is to spend that energy admitting the obvious truth: that we lied, we were WRONG, while avoiding all excuses, blameshifting and elaborate, ridiculous rationalizations. There simply is no excuse for lying so I wouldn't waste a minute going there.

Easier and much simpler to just say: I'm sorry, I was being a lying weasel and there is no excuse for my shabby behavior.

That way, you have a leg to stand on when you demand honesty from your husband. But you can't very well ask him to be honest when you are justifying and excusing your own lies.

I stayed with my husband because I CHOSE TO. Now, if he would have DEMANDED forgiveness as an entitlement, I likely would not have. If he had given the same rationalizations and excuses you have here, I would not have been interested.

And no, I did not say your situation was hopeless. That is obviously up to your husband.

Of course it was "on purpose." You did not decieve him accidentally by your own admission.

NO IDEA why you think I'm excusing my lie (not LIES) and why you think I'm rationlizing them. I brought up a story from the Bible to clearly show that just because someone is dishonest it does NOT mean that God invalidates their marriage or relationship or whatever.

I have APOLOGIZED to my husband for what I did. I was very REMORSEFUL for what I did. I told him the truth about it b/c I felt the guilt becoming too much. I do not rationlize my LIE that I told him. I am angry NOW that he is USING it as a tool to say he may want "out" but won't admit that this has a lot more to do with the OW and not with my past dishonesty. I think that my dishonesty about something BEFORE we dated is lesser than dishonesty about an AFFAIR. But if you were to talk to my WH you would know that I was truly repentant for what I did. I was truly sorry. Now I'm just angry about the whole thing. That he would lead me to believe for over a YEAR that he still wanted to be with me and make things work just to end up having an affair and maybe wanting to D....well should I just be "ok" with all of this? REally.

Just because you apologize doesn't mean the wound goes away.

That is seriously wayward thinking, please refrain from it in future by taking responsibility and admitting that you lied and that you did it on purpose.

You are trying to make your lie go away because you apologized. That is akin to a wayward's "I'm home, aren't I?"

It wasn't PLANNED. That is what I was talking about. I didn't do it "accidentally". Of course. But I didn't have some sinister plan to "trick" him. It happened but I didn't mean for this all to become what it is. ugh.

Good grief. You meant to deceive him. Decieving is decieving whether it is "planned" or not. Is it ok for your H to lie to you as long as it is not "planned?"

Honestly, tinkerbell, this is not even clever bullsh**.

Yes um, I lied. I with held information. I didn't give the whole truth. I was dishonest. I did it to protect myself. So I did it on purpose but it is truthful when I say that I didn't intend for all this crap to happen. I didn't realize the damage I was doing. Now I would like to save my marriage. I know just because I apologize doesn't mean it will go away. Damn, if you all think he should D me then eff it, I have lost all hope. So thank you.

I didn't do this with evil intentions. I was fearful. I did it on purpose for that reason. Not because I wanted to do evil things to him. I didn't realize how damaging this would be. That is the truth. I had NO IDEA how much damage I was doing. So yet again, if I have done something so unforgivable then I suppose I will just take the blame for the ENTIRE marriage going bad and I will accept a D if that's what he wants. And yes I am to the point of hopelessness.

Tinkerbell -

You really need to get back to the MB program. This thread is turning south and is not helpful to you. The HH people need to go back to that thread, and you need to get a plan to save your marriage.