And to answer MrsW's question, it was an ONS many decades ago during withdrawal/divorce. No exposure, but it did lead to a personal examination and change in my honor system.

Larry

Uzzah:

Sorry, you don't get my point. Let me make myself more clear. And I do have an understanding that in your belief, the emotions are the same and your further belief that only someone who has walked in your shoes could understand that point.

Did you miss what I said, that I have been on both ends of the stick?

My point is that the entrance into an infatuation based affair is different by definition than the entrance into an infatuation based on both parties being available. The chemistry is NOT the same, IMHO and from my own life experience.

My point is that because the entrance has overtones of deceit, deception and the choice to betray, the emotions felt are "colored," or distorted by those other emotions, emotions that are not present when the infatuation is the reaction to the chemistry between two people who are otherwise available - not married or in a committed relationship.

In addition, the mental pro! cessing of those emotions is different between the two types of infatuation. So is the often made choice of who to have the infatuation with - someone you wouldn't pick in a million years if you were available and unencumbered. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

You may have been in a mental condition whereby you are the exception, for reason or reasons you have not revealed by personal anecdote. My statements cover those conditions that apply to me and apply to a number of infatuations about which I have read or discussed with those who engaged in them, including my wife's.

Years ago, I walked in your shoes. I have also had what I call a "Good" infatuation - several times in my life. I have also had several that turned out bad, but had no long term ramifications because I was available so you could call them "Good" when I went into them.

The fullness of time and a real good memory served me well when I found myself having to deal! with the problem from a different perspective, that of BS ins! tead of WS. I thought I understood my wife and how to help her inasmuch as any man can understand a woman. And she will be quick to tell you that I did know what to do and she is glad I did.

Perhaps you are attempting to justify, as someone suggested. Maybe yes, maybe no. Would you mind providing enough information to substantiate your viewpoint?

I do agree with you point:

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By labeling something "good" and "bad" all we are really doing is making ourselves feel superior. It doesn't help a junkie to point out to them that what they are doing is "bad". They already know that.



I label what I believe to be the several different types of infatuations as "good" and as "bad," because I couldn't come up with any other label.

I do believe that chemistry between two people, one or both of whom are NOT available for an atta! chment as defined by the vows they took, does have elements of ACTION and REACTION based elements that might be defined as their ability to process consequences if they allowed their precursor emotions to overwhelm them.

In other words, their ability to forcast consequences of an affair distort the emotions they feel. Hey we all go through life dealing with attractions. That is just the way it is. We are never really able to ignore that good looking babe who gives us a smile or the hunk with the big shoulders.

Maybe that is what you are talking about. If it is, I am addressing the emotions felt when someone makes a choice to enter into an affair based on the emotions, or even allows those emotions to be more than a transient thought and not killed by certain knowledge of consequences, otherwise known as a conscious.

Just out of curiosity, and to help my learning, what questions would you have asked of a WW. Is there a difference between WH and WW?

Larry

Is there a difference between WH and WW?

I think there are differences between WW and WH.

Science shows there are differences.


SB

Thanks Pep. And you are right (as usual) WW and WH are different in many ways. My post was irrelevant and should not have been done. Sorry!

Thanks Pep. And you are right (as usual) WW and WH are different in many ways. My post was irrelevant and should not have been done. Sorry!

MrsW. Yes, you are mistaken. I read the post and it was centered around good versus bad infatuations. Thank you for asking.

Larry

I see.

Larry, I've seen you post a couple of times now about how you changed your "honor system"...I'd be interested to hear about that in detail on another thread if you please...

I'll leave Pep's thread to it's original purpose now...

Thanks!

Mrs. W

prednisone

Well then, if I may...Your comment about Prednisone and being "high"...Really? DD10 is finishing a 5 day course of this today - I didn't know it did that! For real?

Mrs. W

Thanks Pep. And you are right (as usual) WW and WH are different in many ways. My post was irrelevant and should not have been done. Sorry!

MrsW. Yes, you are mistaken. I read the post and it was centered around good versus bad infatuations. Thank you for asking.

Larry

Uzzah


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Consider this...as much as you would like your spouse to forget about OP, any repentent WS WOULD LIKE IT 1000 TIMES MORE THAN YOU. But, it's not just a matter of wishing it to be. That's why I suggested acknowledging the feelings, and learning how to deal with them. Stating, out of fear, that they don't really exist, or that they shouldn't and that a "strong" person could just wish them away is denial, or make-believe. For a WS to move on, in a healthy manner, means dealing with things honestly, and dealing with them now.


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What you have said here is entirely different from what I believe you have said in the past. What you meant then is obviously what you mean now and I take it differently.

From my perspective as a FWS (prior marriage) and a BS, I was and am attempting to help a WS deal with their feelings by explaining the foundation of infatuations.

Of course the feelings are real, that cannot be denied.

My point, in an effort to help FWS, which in your case I have done poorly, is to help the FWS to understand that the foundation for the feelings created a situation where the feelings themselves are "False," not positive.

It is difficult to hang on to feelings for a cardboard cutout. But it is hard to let go of feelings that are based on lies and dishonesty because of validation processes in our brain.

Let me explain by using an example that was posted elsewhere.

One lady said that during her available years, she would get infatuated with a male. Then over time, she would wake up one morning with a "gnaw off the arm" feeling. I think it was 10swords who said it. In 25 years she has never had the feeling with Mr. I.

My point has been and I will keep trying to explain it, is that valid feelings upon which an infutation are based as a precursor to love, get processed by the brain in a different way than invalid feelings caused by the entry to and the continuance of an affair.

It is harder to hang on to invalid feelings of a real person than it is to deal with invalid feelings of a cardboard cutout.

Ok, without labels, feelings from an affair are more difficult for the brain to deal with than if those feelings had been based on a situation without the overtones of an affair.

I would expect that everyone would agree with this. The reason is obvious. Our egos want to justify what we did anyway possible. This is like the 11 year old boy who lies his face off in spite of evidence in front of him. Nobody wants to totally admit they unleashed the critter in themselves without some validation, some tiny excuse.


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repentent WS WOULD LIKE IT 1000 TIMES MORE THAN YOU. But, it's not just a matter of wishing it to be.


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Ok, so the task becomes how to process the feelings.

I respectfully suggest, from my own experiences and the experiences of others I have interviewed, that if the feelings can be processed as invalid because of the foundation upon which they were based, they become easier to deal with.

In other words, the feelings are based on the image of the OP that turns out to be feelings for a cardboard cutout and thus at a point, you get this gnaw off the leg feeling instead of hanging on.

YOu get to the same place as you get when you out process a valid infatuation that goes nowhere. The feelings of guilt no longer has a hold on the brain that causes the positive images of the OP to stay with us.

Am I making sense, finally?

Perhaps a general clearing of the air would be helpful