It was my fault as much as hers as far as that goes. I shouldn't have ignored the signs and I shouldn't have thought I was 'too good to leave'.

I also shouldn't have continued when I kept getting information which showed me that she had no desire to interact with me in any form other than my bank account.

So... I realize what my part in it was. I just kept thinking, I would be able to LOVE her out of it. I kept thinking that if I used the HNHN principles, that I would reach her somehow.

But I read Harley's post about "Knowing when to call it quits" and it resonated with me. She wrote the crap online, and I asked her to leave. She wanted to try, and if I gave her the chance, she would show me. I said that I was afraid and that I didn't trust. She said that it would just take time and consistency in her showing me that she had changed. That lasted about 4 weeks, then revertion began. slowly but surely, neglect and money rebounded, care and concern dissappeared. But the biggest part is that we FINALLY were in counseling together. She just couldn't take it. She couldn't take the unmasking of what she acted like. She truly sees herself as a 'kind and gentle' person. She texted me that just a week or so ago.

WEll... a KIND AND GENTLE person DOESN'T do this in this way. So I think we have proof to the contrary.

Well, she is selling her personal narrative so she won't feel the guilt and shame she deserves. Don't buy what she is selling



Larry

CIFO, my sentiments are with you. Your story and mine are so alike in so many ways.

I did get confirmation from several professionals (counselors, psychiatrists, etc.) that my stbxw likely has a "Cluster B" personality disorder, specifically, Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD). It doesn't make the current situation any better, but it does at least explain many of her behaviors, the I ignored, and even to some extent, the reason she managed to ensnare me in her trap (I never saw myself as her White Knight, but looking back, there were aspects of it).

Interestingly, the personal remedy to survive an abusive relationship such as the kind a BPD puts us through is the same solution as Plan B: complete and total NO CONTACT. I have gone from trying to save our marriage to simply trying to save myself!

Three weeks from tomorrow will be the first day under state law that I can file. I have told my attorney to mark her calendar...

I am relatively sure BPD would be given, if she were evaluated. Almost everything she does matches BPD. I have known it for about 2 years now, but... I didn't want to leave my 'family'.

I have gone complete no-contact. Everything through lawyers.

Just got back from Spring Break Trip with my boys. We had alot of fun, no itenerary trip to Gettysburg and DC. Laughed alot together. I cried alot as well however.

Listened to 'The Shack' on the way out and it really tore me up inside. I had so many emotions running around inside me as it was, and then to be hearing the same emotions in the audiobook about did me in. I don't think it would have hit me in the same way had this not happened at this time. I read the book before... or most of it. I just got stuck about 2 months ago, and couldn't continue reading for some reason. Maybe it was self preservation at the time. But listening to it in my car with my boys sitting there really broke me. Wore sunglasses on some pretty cloudy days is all I can say.

Anyway, I really heard the thoughts on forgiveness. That just about broke me in half. I realize that I have held so much against her, because she wouldn't simply apologize. It just kept stacking up and up... higher and higher. And since I couldn't talk about it with her, I just held it against her. I am unsure how to go about it, but I would like to tell her I forgive her. I love her and forgive her. I don't want to be married to the woman she is at this time, but I would love to be married to her as a healthy woman and wife. I thought about writing her a letter simply forgiving her for all the things I 'feel' I have held against her. I don't know if it would be well receieved... I doubt it actually, however, as the book and most people say... 'Forgiveness isn't for the other person... it is for yourself.' That doesn't mean to forget, and that doesn't mean that forgiveness relieves the other of responsibility to apologize and ask for forgiveness as well. It just means, that for ME... I don't have to carry around the burdon any longer.

I need to forgive her so I can move past the anger and sadness I have held for so long. It has driven me down, as a huge weight of self-righteousness atop my shoulders. What I wanted was a simple apology, and that was not to be, but to hold this any longer is simple folly. When I think of all the things which could have been so much better with a simple apology, hug, and a kiss, it makes my stomach tie up in knots. Such a basic form of love... such a basic form of trust restoration.. was not part of her love for me. I have never understood, nor do I understand even to the present. I feel so sorry for her.

I also heard about the thought of 'expectations' and I know that I held her under a huge wall of unmet needs and expectations on my part. For that I am truly sorry as well. We couldn't talk, and she was not receptive at all to almost any of my requests for ENs. It became such a folly for me to wish anything, because there was a high liklihood, that most ENs would go unmet. And that by asking for them to be, that they would be even more neglected. As my expectations grew and my ENs continued to go unmet, my aggitation grew, and I know that my attitude towards her became an issue, which I am sure, gave her more of a feeling of 'rightness' in NOT meeting my needs as her husband.

I have never understood this about our interactions, but then again, we tend to think others should act the way we would act or 'think' we would act in a similar situation. Had I heard her tell me something which was an EN, I would have worked to fulfill it. However, when she heard of an unmet EN, it was almost as if she felt I was attacking her or that I thought her 'lacking' and thereby, she felt obligated to retaliate. Our whole marriage was like that, and it makes me so sad.

I feel like a failure, both to her and her daughters. I thought that she would respond in a way I would respond, to the way I loved her. It was foolish... I agree... but not unreasonable. When I bared my soul and handed her my heart in counseling, she simply stated to the counselor "Its nothing he hasn't said before." And I realized she was right. I had been trying the same heartfelt attempts over and over again, trying to be vulnerable and reach her through the love I had to give. Thinking that by allowing myself to be fully open, exposed, and vulnerable, that she would see that I loved her. It was interesting, because the counselor stated, "That would have melted about 98% of all women's hearts... but that doesn't seem to even phase you." She just kinda looked at him with a flippant 'so what' look on her face.

I just kept looking at the situation, and even at that point, I kept thinking about the one time when we had fought a couple years ago, and afterwards, she said "Sometimes I feel like I am behind a glass wall, and can't stop. I want to just break, and hug and love you, but I can't get out. So I just keep getting more angry." I kept that in my mind almost every day. Thinking that if I was GOOD enough, loved LONG enough, and kept trying... that eventually, that person would break out from behind that wall. But it was not to be. I would love to be there to love that woman... but I realize that in MY world, she doesn't exist. This might be the woman who she thinks about when she thinks about herself. When she thinks about how kind and gentle she is, she is probably feeling this woman behind the wall. However, unfortunately, despite all I had and everything I could think of, and because I am a human man and can't be perfect or even always 'good', nothing I could do could touch that woman behind the wall. I wish for MY sake, my BOYS' sake, her DAUGHTERS' sake, and most of all for HER sake... that somehow, that woman would break out before everything is gone.

She could stop all of this with a heartfelt acceptance of the issues and a desire, willingness, and thoroughness of working these issues out. IF she chose, I would not push the divorce if she desired time to work on herself, and then on us. But she would have to do it of her own volition.

I can only apologize for my parts of it... I can also forgive.

Man oh man... Why can't I be HALF the [censored] that my wife has always thought I was???

The lability of my mood at this time is astounding. I find that my 'baseline' way of being is one of forgiveness and reconciliation. It is what allowed me to get through so many issues with my wife during our marriage. However, now it is causing me significant difficulty in thinking about this divorce.

I DO NOT WANT a divorce. But I also DO NOT WANT the marriage I have had.

Why is it that I constantly can feel like I want to reconcile even in the light of so many things which have occurred? I know I care incredibly for her girls... I LOVE them with all my heart. I know that I also love HER... but her dishonesty is not good for us. She has shown no remorse for so much... apologized for so little... and yet in my heart, I keep wishing that she would simply come to me, hug me, and say "I am sorry, I love you."

Why do we DO THIS to ourselves? We wish it were true, but we don't count on it happening.

If I were half the [censored] she puts me up to being, this would not be an issue. I would be out carousing.

One day I will be strong and logical... the next day my heart will be breaking and I will just want to hold her against my chest.

WHAT GIVES!!!! Arrrgggghhhh.......

Just got the Divorce papers in the mail.

You know... I was expecting them... but they still hurt.

2 weeks ago I was working hard on a marriage... now I am trying to think about getting through this divorce, what I am going to do about her girls... what will she allow if anything...

The reality is softer than I expected I guess. Not quite as tough, I think it is better, because I wasn't even supposed to get mail today, since I had put a 'stop' for my vacation. But I happened to be outside when he came by and he had only one piece... the piece I had to sign for. In some ways, I hoped that she wouldn't file, but I knew she would. She gets going on something and is like a laser... regardless of whether it is good or bad. Deal with the ramifications later... full speed ahead.

If we don't war, things will be fine.

It still hurts though...

The most odd thing is that I miss the IDEA of marriage more than my actual marriage. I never had what I miss... it is odd. I guess maybe I miss the potential of what could have been. I know I miss the thoughts of having someone to 'give' to. But I don't miss 'getting' anything. I just didn't get that much myself...

CFIO,

I think that when you look back on this in two years, you will have a sense of relief.

The woman who did this to you and the woman you WANTED her to be


they are not the same person.



She was not the person you wanted.
In your mind, you molded an image of her into someone you wanted her to be. You fit her into that - because you needed her to be that person.


She was NOT that person.



Interesting, you say you miss the IDEA of marriage, and not the marriage.

This is quite telling about your state of mind. What you desire is the sense of "home".

This woman never gave that to you. It was her CHILDREN that gave this to you.

Now, you find yourself facing this reality.


For future reference, date the WOMAN. Do not meet her children until you have dated at least SIX MONTHS. Then, you will know what is attracting you.

If the WOMAN gives you the sense of "home", you can then move toward the rest of her family.


That six month issue might sound strange, restrictive, and crazy. In your case, you are seeking refuge - and it is coloring your view of the world.


You need to make a strong boundary for yourself, and with this type of restriction you might find yourself better able to restrain your feelings.


Just my advice, after looking through your writing.


SB

Don't be so hard on yourself. She's messed with your emotions and you are hurt. Give yourself some time.

And you should have seen the signs? I had no signs... blindsided after 30 years of being together. It doesn't really matter once the affair happens. All bets are off on what should have happened.

I know you don't want a war, but you should contest the divorce. Stand up for yourself and your family. Think of her girls. You need to be there for them when their mother tries to drag them down with her.

I, too, miss being married. He's pretty much married to Bimbo -- lives in her house with her three kids, ignors our kids, acts like he's living a new life even though our divorce is far from being final.

And The Shack really hit home with me, too. If I wasn't going through the pain of the affair and divorce in my life, I would have skipped over some of the book's messages. I have a newfound appreciation of each of the Trinity and turn to God or Jesus or the Holy Spirit depending on my particular need. I pray that the Holy Spirit can cultivate WH's dead soul.

And ditto the advice to lock up your assets. Read my thread if you want to see how low a person will go for their affair partner. I wasn't in the drivers seat with our finances, so I had to snoop and play catch up to find what I could. You need to shut down what you can. It's not mean, it's the consequenses of her actions.

I'm 2+ years d-day and 1+ years getting the papers. Yes, it hurts to see your name on them. He filed. He bullied. Now he's stalling. Go figure. But I'm so much stronger than I would have been 1 or 2 years ago.

Get strong. Put emotions aside. Gather your army of supporters. Learn from this site. Continue to have a relationship with the girls. Be the best Dad you can. Keep the faith. You didn't deserve this... and by God, this will not break you.

If you think your W has BPD, I would suggest you read the book "Stop Walking on Eggshells; Taking your life back when someone you care about has BPD".

Get your pen when you read it and start underlining everything that you can relate to or behaviors that you see/saw in your wife. You will probably be amazed, saddened, horrified and relieved all at once.

If she truly has BPD, you will see exactly how empty and conflicted (and messed up) she really is, and you will also see that it makes little difference what you did or didn't do in the marriage....relationships with BPD's are tortorous and more than likely doomed to failure. And it's NOT your fault.

I bought the book after your post. I am about half-way through it and it is amazing... how much I feel like I am reading about my last 7 years. Several things such as substance abuse and self mutilation do not match at all. However the raging, projection, denial, inability to accept responsibility (can't say sorry), etc are like they had a tape recorder running on my life.

There are other things which don't fit on the surface, but which when looked at in context, fit perfectly. Abandonement has always been a huge problem for her. However, she has done about everything possible to push me away and neglect me.

It really saddens me, because I am sure that this will repeat. It saddens me because I really do love her. I love her girls as well, and they will be the real tragedy. I can already see it in some fashion, and it just breaks my heart. But...

It would have been easier to highlight the things which DIDN'T match my experience rather than those that did. I also really like the book in that it is set up to help people AROUND a person with BPD rather than simply talk about BPD itself. This is key to recognizing issues which I had simply learned to deal with rather than even recognize them as problems any more.

The fury, denial, and projection are the biggest parts I see in my wife. Security and abandonement are tatamount however, it seems she does everything she can to ensure they will come about. All the while blaming those around her. It just breaks my heart, but gives me some peace as well.

Lability... I forgot how bad it can be at this stage of a relationship or dissolution of a relationship. One day I think, OK... I can do this... the next I feel horrible. I find myself 'rewriting' history by way of 'it wssn't so bad' but then I think about EVERYTHING and realize that what we had was nothing compared to what it should have been. And it galls me...

Sometimes I think about just chucking it all and trying to make up, but then I realize that is has ALWAYS been me who tried to make up. Then I think perhaps if I had done 'this' differently... or 'that' differently, it would have made a difference. Then I realize that NOTHING I could have done, would have resulted in the way she treated my boys. THAT wasn't ME... that was HER!. Like I said... lability...

I watched 'Roxanne' last night with my boys, and started missing our early dating, when I used to write her letters and cards about what she did to my heart. And I missed that intensely. It is something which, over time and situations, I had quite doing, at least with the dominate romantic overtones of the letters. I still wrote, but it was about trying to show her my heart, rather than just giving it to her. When I was spurned over and over again, I just quite. I miss that part of me.

I find that the things I miss the most about our relationship, is having someone to GIVE to. Crazy isn't it... but it is the truth. I feel so much pent up desire to give, to explore, to astound, to warm, to ... give of myself. Unfortunately, that is about all I had over the course of my marriage, was MY giving. So I don't know whether my 'missing' it is simply missing the only thing I got out of our marriage that made me feel good... the good feelings I got within myself when I gave. It wasn't enough, obviously, I had significant unfilled ENs as well. But it has been so long since they were actually lovingly met, that I think I don't miss them any more. However, I gave as much as I had up to the end. Well... close to the end. I know that I began pulling way back about a month ago... I am unsure why, but I know I was none-the-less.

I felt tied down in this relationship... not tied down from 'doing my own thing' so perhaps that is not the best analogy. Maybe better would be that I felt 'hamstrung'. I needed more from her to be all I could be. I just couldn't be 'myself' without having some needs met. I tried... I tried to give without need, but I just couldn't do it well. It wasn't that my LOVE was conditional, in essence, although I believe all love other than children, is probably conditional. But it was that I just couldn't go that extra mile, when I was being neglected. It was like there was a stone wall which I needed help climbing over, and there was no helping hand to guide me. I don't know how to explain it, and in truth, it feels as though it is a cop-out or at a minimum, makes no sense. But it was real none-the-less. When I told my wife, in counseling, that I could be so much more than I am, if I had love returned to me, my counselor said "You need to be your best for yourself, you can't rely on others for that." And in some ways I agree... but in others, I completely disagree.

Given only myself, I would probably do so much in my life differently. Not live where I live, work like I work, etc etc. I do these things in this manner, because it benefits the ones I love. I am not inspired to make jewelry without someone to give it to. I am not inspired to paint, without someone to share it with. I am not inspired to write, without someone to read it. These things might seem trivial, however, they are WHO I AM. I was able to 'buy' things for my wife. I could buy trips and vacations, dinners, and trinkets. But I couldn't do what was really INSIDE me, because when I did, I felt unappreciated. And it kills me. I know, this was based upon my hopes and expectations, so I understand that it was ME who was the problem. However, it just got to the point that when I put myself into something and got a flippant smile, I just eroded. When I would take her on a trip, and all I would want was to make love, and I would get shot down... I quit wanting to go on trips. When I would go out to dinner, and hear "I have a headache' when desert rolled around, I quit wanting to go out to dinner. I never felt appreciated. I CERTAINLY was never admired, the opposite in fact.

So I find... at this time, today, that what I miss most... is someone to GIVE to. What a hellishly perverse place to be...

Man Oh Man...

I just emailed my wife about taking my (her) youngest daughter out for dinner on Thursday. I have known her since before she was 1yo and she is now 7 and knows me as 'Daddy'.

She replied that it would be fine, and that my daughter has been feeling as though I don't love her anymore. It breaks my heart. I am so confused... contact for my daughter makes me a mess because of contact with Mom. It isn't an anger... just a sadness...

My stomach is in knots... I feel sad, anxious, upset, angry... but mostly sad. Just those few words from my wife sent me reeling, and she did absolutely NOTHING other than reply to my request. She was completely appropriate in all ways, without excessive talking, and absolutely NO emotion. And yet, I am the one who is spun up...

I hate this so much... I find that I get alot of solace by driving in the country... I have driven so many miles recently that I am going to begin freaking out the farmers. After going to the gym this morning, I just drove around for about an hour, in the dark. Just thinking...

I know it isn't true... but I feel like I failed so many people. Truth or not... it sure feels like I did.

.

Time and life... that's what I need now... just some time and life in between now and then.

New Major issues with Dad's health only compound what is going on in my head. Maybe it is a blessing in that it will give me something else to focus on. Sometimes however, it would be nice to have a hug and hear "Everything will be alright." The only issue is that I never got that before either... hence the feeling of loss, of something I didn't have to begin with.

I was looking through old emails I sent a long time ago, reminiscing when I happened on an email about how I want to be good to her and all I need is to have her help me to understand her better. I didn't remember writing. It was so odd, because it sounded like something I would have written recently. When I looked at the date... it was Jan 2006. 6 months before we were married.

It breaks my heart on so many levels. Thinking about all the signs I ignored... thinking about how much I put into trying... and thinking about all the time we spent living in different realities. If I ever get to talk with God... I hope he will have an explanation to help me understand.

Took my (her) daughter out alone tonight and had a great time. It is really hard though, when she says "Next time we will take the boys and Mommy too!" I don't think my wife told her we are getting a divorce. I didn't bring it up, because I think it should come from her mom since she will have to deal with the ramifications more than I will.

We went out for Fish-n-Chips which is something we ALL loved doing. I think, that at this moment, the hardest thing is thinking about all we used to do together, which will never happen again. For all the problems my wife and I had... we had some good times as well. We used to go out to eat often, and I loved sitting there, listening to her talk and go on about everything under the sun. It does make me wonder what to do with all the time I used to spend trying to do things for her to keep her involved in US. I find that it must have been ALOT more time than I realized.

My little girl loves to read, and every time we go to the bookstore, she finds a book about 'Dads' in some fashion and she always wants me to read it to her. It just breaks my heart, because we really did do well together and we love each other dearly. She wanted to get a book for me to read her at bedtime. THEN she wanted to get a new 'I SPY' book which we also used to do at bedtime. Not being able to tuck her in brings a tear each time I think about it. Sometimes I want to scream and rage... but most times I want to just break down and cry. Damn it!.. why do we end up caring so much for people who can't show that they could even remotely care for us?

Sometimes I just want to shake my wife and say "Wake UP!!! Can't you see what you are doing??? It isn't only YOU!"

Daughters are just wonderful.

Larry

They are wonderful... and perhaps the hardest thing about this whole ordeal.

Tough day today. Having a table and chairs delivered. It is the table that we both went out and bought in October. We had looked for a new table for several years, never really seeing one we both liked. I had one request... since I sat at the end, I just wanted the end to have enough room for my feet not to hit a trellis or center piece. That was all... otherwise, we like the same styles etc. This request was unreasonable in her opinion, and it caused us some grief throughout our marriage. That was the ONLY request I made about the table. She accused me of 'shooting down' every option she had... but the only options she would show me were ones with the end up against the trellis, there would have been no place to sit and actually eat. Anyway... that is a long winded issue...

In Oct. we took our girls out for the day... we had a lazy day at the stores, and we FOUND THE TABLE we had been looking for. Big oval copper top, antique looking table. Certainly NOT cheap, but we had finally found it and we were both... we I should say I was and she 'seemed' happy. We went out for lunch and laughed alot with our girls.

I had placed a keylogger on my computer in July after finding out about her affair, she knew it was on there, but I believe she forgot. I rarely checked it, maybe once every 2 weeks or so, and only cursorily at that. At the end of Oct, I checked it. She had been on an adult hookup site looking for something 'discreet on the side to make her feel alive'. THE SAME AFTERNOON we had bought the table. This would have been a day that I would have ranked in the top of our days together. We had made love the night before and then had a great day finally finding a table.

I wrote her a letter which I read, because I wanted to stay on track, basically saying that I loved her and the girls. I could see that she had been trying to improve our relationship. That was why I couldn't understand why she chose to do this on this day of all days? She immediately became defensive and lied... saying she did it because she wanted to find out if I was spying on her. She knew she had to do something really bad to get me to come out, so she did it. Then she turned it all back onto me as the bad guy, etc etc etc. You know the story. She said she was done. I agreed and asked her to move out.

Well... today the table is coming... and I have relived this over and over again in my mind. I have reread some emails she sent to her mother (she left her email open one day and I looked through it) in which she said that 'I hate this man... almost as much as you hate XXX!' That was at about 8 months into our marriage.

It breaks my heart, but I see so many things which were such horrible behavior and thoughts. I look at them and see how she portrays herself as the poor single mom being divorced/divorcing the A-hole doctor. But man... it just breaks my heart because she is such a mess... both for herself and her girls. Oh... to look at her you would think she is clear thinking, but if you take 10 minutes and look at the differences in what she says DURING those 10 minutes, you will see a woman who has built up such a hateful defense against the world, that there is no way through to the person I believe is in there somewhere.

I am going to be sitting at this beautiful table tonight... all alone... and it breaks my heart.

But I realize that you can't help a person who doesn't want to even help themselves.

WOW!!!
I just received a call as I waited for the delivery of the table. Apparently, my wife called the company and instructed them not to deliver it to my house. The table had been put on her credit, and even though it was always agreed that the table was coming here, since she had the card it was placed on originally (simple store card) the company must do what she says.

Heh... I should have figured this would happen.

We bought the table form a store which she already had an account with, so in order to get the 6month same as cash, we put it on her card instead of paying for it outright. Even after she moved out, she was encouraging me to have it delivered, etc. I just hadn't until now. I called about a month ago, and scheduled it for delivery today. Well, since she has gone off the deep end, she decided she wants the table I guess. So she is throwing her weight around with purchaser.

I paid the balance of the card on 3/19 in order to keep her from having to pay the 24% interest which would have been on the card had I not. All with the understanding that the table was coming here.

Heh... man oh man... she is just a bit far off the porch. Her daily manifestation of crazy has been ratcheted up several knotches.

I sent an email to her and my lawyers saying she can have the table in lieu of taking the purchase price from the amount of money I owe via the prenup. This is MUCH better for me... because I really didn't want the table in the first place. She wanted something different, so I wanted to make her happy.

Heh.... this is going to be a different sort of divorce... I can tell. Just get me the heck through it as quickly as possible... but I am going to WAR as we do it.