Excellent post Luri!

It's a great description of my current feelings with SF.
It's as if SF is some sort of relationship "glue."

The thing is this: I believe that our feelings on this (the good feelings you described above) are a markedly different aspect of this discussion...way different from Hold's (and others') line of thinking when they say they cannot even find it within themselves to "try" working on their marriage if their wife isn't giving them sex.

You and I are experiencing the SF euphoria within the context of applying the totality of MB along with SF and we are experiencing results. We are also enjoying SF rather than being repulsed by it.

In this discussion, we are really still in the same spot which is illustrated by OH's evidence / eaxample - that giving your H SF making a difference in a marriage where one partner is rowing with one paddle just doesn't work.

I guess for me - the bottom line is: I would not continue to provide SF in the absence of 1) a total MB effort / plan on my part and 2) no measureable improvements in the marriage. I also reject the notion that anyone should REQUIRE SF from their spouse to FIND the energy to do their part to work on their marriage. The men in the SAA room meeting their WW's ENs provide enough evidence that MEN CAN FIND THE FUEL TO WORK ON THEIR MARRIAGES WITHOUT SF IF THEY HAVE TO.

Think,

I am experiencing this on my side too.

Conflicts seem to be less likely and if they do occur, they much easier to resolve with this intimate connection made possible via the closeness which results from the feelings elicited with the SF. In my case, the SF appears to be affecting him as well.

Luri just described the feeling I get from SF....as well as my wife. That's the whole point. That's what true SF does for a M. It's not just what women feel. It's the way it is for guys, too. (I say that, just having my emotional tank filled VERY recently. )

It's certainly what it does for our M, at any rate. I read somewhere that to maintain true intimacy for a couple, most M's need SF twice a week.

When it's been too long, I get this horrible feeling of disconnect, and to be honest I get a little schizo. She says she feels the same way, just not quite with the same intensity. Lucky her.

I hate that disconnect with all my being. That's what makes people vulnerable. Boundaries and EP's are what keep us safe when this happens. Not having them back in the day is what got us posting here on this board in the first place.

So what happens when the SF is there, but not much else is?

Um, better complexions for all concerned?

(Yeah, yeah, that deserves something better than a flip comment. It's just that I'm good at flip comments. I should be -- I pay the mortgage by making 'em.)

I suppose that means that there are other things that need to be worked on. It also means that it's a VERY unusual situation, because SF is usually the first thing affected in times of trouble.

This was where my marriage was....well, to be honest mine turned out to be much more full of deceit than I thought.....but we ALWAYS had SF. In 26 years there were very very few times we went longer than a week. Most time it was at least 2-3 times a week. Including up to the morning I found out he was having an affair. However, especially in the later years that was ALL there was. It just isn't enough that is for sure.

I think there are very few cases where the SF is good and the marriage is not. Or at least they are in the small minority.

My ex and I had frequent SF - almost every day. The problem was that even while he was in the affair (before D-day), our SF remained the same.

After D-day, I think we had SF twice during a false recovery, and it wasn't good. At least for me.

So it looks like the general consensus is:

A) SF is both a "glue" and a "lubricant" (no pun intended) for good marital relations via a feeling of connectedness for both spouses.

B) Men are profoundly affected in a negative way when they do not have SF in their marriage.

C) Having sex with an H who is not meeting ENs is difficult if not repulsive for a woman.

D) Meeting the EN of SF for your spouse in absentia of other good relations in the marriage is pointless.

E) Good SF in absentia of other good relations in a marriage is RARE.

Did we miss anything?

Nope. You hit the nail squarely on the head.

Well stated.

This is a keeper.

I think that post of Chris' should go into the notable posts thread.

H and I had a short discussion last night. Bigger issues are yet to be resolved. But I stated clearly that if he wanted my time with him in the evenings, we needed to come up with something that I enjoyed doing as well. I don't enjoy TV for the most part. There are very few programs I like and the entire time I am watching TV, I'm thinking I'd rather be doing something else. If it gets past 9PM, I just fall asleep. It's better than a sleeping pill in that regard.

I have been like this about TV since *day ONE* of our marriage. I never even OWNED a TV before I met H. So it's not like I just changed after we met.

I didn't want to make this sound like a selfish demand so I clearly stated what it was about TV that didn't satisfy the UA time for me (didn't use the MB term "UA", but got the point across) and gave him examples of things I enjoy doing in the evenings with him. I also made it clear that I understand that TV for him is a way to wind down, escape, relax, etc. and that I would never want to take that away from him. At the same time, because of the way I feel about spending time with him, interacting with him, and the way I feel about TV, that it would be rare cases where TV would satisfy my need for UA time. (once again, not using the MB term "UA" but getting my point across).

If we're through dinner early enough, and we have nothing else going on with the kids, we will watch Jeopardy together. This works for me. It's a half hour show so I don't see my life slipping away before my eyes. It's fun for us all to play along and try to guess the answers. The kids enjoy it. I have no problem making Jeopardy a part of our evening routing when it works out for us all. We even record it in the DVR and on a rainy Saturday, we'll all sit down and watch 3-4 episodes of it.

That's FC time and it's fine with me.

I might not even mind watching a regular show that I enjoy (if I can find one...) once a week or so. But I don't consider this UA time.

Anyway, I said this all respectfully, clearly and a lot more concisely than I typed out here. And I just let the subject go.

Guess who asked me to play backgammon with him last night? And guess who never turned on the TV.

In fact, one game of backgammon turned into five. LOL

And guess who got great SF last night? (well both of us, but you get my drift on the pavlovian response...)

ETA: I am one of those rare females who really LOVES to watch football (if I have an interest in at least one of the teams). So that's an option, too.

Many men are empowered to accomplish their life goals by good sex. Not only is there a negative component from the lack of sex, there is a positive component to good sex. It doesn't just erase the negative. It gets him to a higher level than where he started.

That is a point that I think many women miss out on. It is not merely that your husband is more WILLING to accomplish tasks on your behalf when he is sexually satisfied. He is more ABLE to do so as well.

So if you have what seems like an endless "to do" list. And you feel that your husband is asking you to take time away from accomplishing your goals / tasks. Realize that you'll probably have fewer tasks to accomplish if you take time for sex, because he will have accomplished some of them for you.

Hold,
Did you ever read "Think and Grow Rich", by Napoleon Hill?

I read it when I was in college, but it was 35 years later that I realized the edition I read, like most editions, had edited out Chapter 11, on Sex Transmutation.

You should really read the entire book, and the chapter in context, but...

Think and Grow Rich, by Napoleon Hill [1938]
THE MYSTERY OF SEX TRANSMUTATION
www.sacred-texts.com/nth/tgr/tgr16.htm

How does it work? Does someone hit "notify"?

OH,

What happened there with you guys is WONDERFUL! Keep up the good work

Mr Hold,

Not to be rude but, you really need to take a good look at what you are saying with this sex thing. That first sentence made me cringe.

I have a specific question for you:

IF WHAT YOU SAY IS TRUE, HOW ARE THE MEN IN THE SAA ROOM WORKING ON THEIR MARRIAGE AND MEETING THEIR WIVES ENs WITHOUT GETTING SEX FROM THEM?

It's hard not to be cynical. He got very emotional last night. And yes, it had been over a week..(almost 2, I think?) that I'd just made myself conveniently unavailable emotionally and phsycially.

I'm still so conditioned to waiting for the other shoe to drop though.

Please be positive about this.

If you don't believe that man and woman were created from one flesh and become one flesh in marriage, then that concept will not speak to you. I don't worship the gods of ancient Greece, but the story of Antigone speaks to me.

My point is that developing and using your conscience is part of breaking out of old scripts, and that requires examining the wisdom of the ancients as well as the wisdom of contemporaries, then meditating quietly and just thinking without interruption or distraction.

Check