To all,
I don't want to continue this TJ so please see me over here

Rock & a Hard Place- Big Picture's rants

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming for Markos.

Well, I have no clue what to do other than to keep trying to meet emotional needs. She's withdrawn, and clearly hurting. I have no idea what she is thinking or feeling right now.

Yes, of course I could ask. Done that. Nicely, I think.

I'm the last one to post to her...

I hope it wasn't something I said.

Mr. W

Hi Markos,

What do you think would you happen if you wrote her a letter expressing appreciation for the things you HAVE noticed her doing to try and reach out to you since you and Dr. Harley first spoke?

It seems to me like she is feeling as if none of what she does is noticed or makes a difference. If my husband wrote me a note like that, I would feel seen and appreciated... it might help me feel like coming out of withdrawal some...

Of course, it's important that the note is about what you've seen HER doing, not what you've been trying to do.

I think that is a great idea, actually.

I need help understanding something.

I went out a few minutes ago to call the Marriage Builders office to register for the weekend. I got the answering machine and decided not to leave a message since I don't want to take the call in the office and register over the phone with my coworkers hearing.

For anyone who is confused, I don't want my coworkers to know that my marriage is in trouble.

I called my wife, and let her know. At one point she said, "I don't mind if you talk about it in the office." I answered that I don't want to talk about it in front of my coworkers, that would be like living in a fishbowl.

She shut down. All her answers to questions became one-word, and she quit offering anything to the conversation.

So, I committed a Love Buster. What was it? So I can stop doing it?

I said "You sound like you felt upset when I said I don't want to register for Marriage Builders weekend over the phone in the office. Do you want to tell me more about how you feel about that?" She answered "Not really." So I said "Okay. I'd really like to understand better why I'm hurting you so I can avoid doing it" and I let it go.

Anyone want to help me understand my wife's thinking here? It's usually obvious to everybody but me. Does she really want me letting people around me know about our problems? Or was she thinking that she'd feel good for me to be working on our marriage and showing I'm willing to take my wife away for the weekend in a way that my coworkers would see?

Sounds like a subtext thing. Which is a polite way of saying 'she's probably DJing you in her mind because she's afraid to be vulnerable to you and is very sensitive to hurt.'

She gave you permission to talk about your marriage with colleagues, probably something that sets off all sorts of safety-alarms in her but she decided somehow that it would be a GOOD thing for you both to give you this space.

And you:
- didn't react to her statement directly ("Thanks hon, it's really good/a relief to know you're OK with that.") My H does that sometimes (and used to do it a LOT) and although I don't know what LB it is exactly, the sensation is like biking over a rock. One minute you're sailing along smoothly, the other you're all shook up and 'huh, what just happened?' Depending how good I'm feeling, this 'bump' can give me momentary pause or completely sour my mood for talking until I get a few minutes to myself. I'm very language-conscious, and if that happens my brain screams at me "Objection! Irrelevant!"

- indirectly rejected her offer, which is easily reinterpreted with the DJ of "(Why do you think I was even thinking about what YOU think because) I don't want to talk about it with colleagues."

- DJed her offer by saying you'd feel like it's living in a fishbowl. To her, it may have sounded like you think there's something wrong with talking to your colleagues, in which case there's also something wrong with HER for not only not minding talking to your colleagues, but giving you express permission to do so. She must be promoting living in a fishbowl, being some sort of exhibitionist or something. (Exaggerating here, of course.)

So, personally I don't think she WANTS you to talk to colleagues or have them know how good an H you are, I think this little snafu is just a matter of subtle communication stuff.

And to give you some encouragement, my H and I used to have these exact converations about EVERYTHING from the dishes to politics to favourite movies, and now we don't anymore. :p

My take would be none of the above. IMVHO she's telling you that she wants to be pursued, chased, woo'd, etc. She wants to be a priority in your life, a priority bigger than work, bigger than some "perceived" discomfort. I mean registering for a Marriage Enrichment weekend doesn't sound like a thing where you have to lay out your life story. I'd presume it's names and how you pay for it. I guess for me, and maybe for her, I lack to see how this would be an issue to do in the office.

If I do call and register for Marriage Builders weekend over the phone from the office, do you think that'll deposit love units?

Personally, if'n it were me. I'd just register. Since our wives have the same love language, I'd then make sure I told her I registered through her love language. Being that it's graduation season, I'd prob get some type of inviation for her along with a trinket or some flowers. Writing something along the lines of "I thought about our conversation about the registration and registered at the office. I am proud to be Priscilla's husband and I'll shout it from the rooftops. I'm very excited to have you, my BEAutifuly bride, by my side as we take our marriage to the next level."....

Wanted to second this assessment. Were I in your wife's shoes during this conversation I would read this as putting your discomfort at the office before your marriage and thus me. Your MARRIAGE and your WIFE have to come before other people. The aversion to talking in the office, to me, would seem to be putting other people's comfort before the marriage.

I know that is a DJ but I don't think Prisca is at the place, yet to eliminate it. She doesn't yet feel, deep down, that she is a priority yet for you. Now you have been making changes and doing the best you can to help her see that but it will take consistency before she will truly believe it. She may see it but it is going to take time for her to believe it. Once she is secure in that knowledge, the talking at the office can be POJAd.

Hi Markos, I have been lurking on your thread for a while but this is my first post to it.

I agree with LH as well! In addition, she might be concerned with image management among your colleagues in a different way than you are. If she knows that your colleagues have ever witnessed a frustrated phone call or some other indication you were upset with her, she might like them knowing that you are now working to make things great.

Looks like when I mentioned the issue I triggered a related subject that is really a sore point for her: me calling from work.

I've been trying to call her several times a day from my car. This is upsetting her. She feels like I am embarrassed of her!

But when I call from my desk, conversation is completely awkward. It's like trying to get through the awkward stages of restoring love for each other, by showing undivided attention meeting intimate emotional needs ... with all the complete strangers at work present. How can I have intimate, comfortable conversation with a bunch of other people around?

I want to do whatever will make my wife feel in love with me. I want to learn how to talk to her on the phone in a comfortable manner. I thought I could achieve that by stepping out to the car to call her several times a day, until conversation is pleasant again. But it turns out that's not working; it just makes her feel like I don't want anyone to see her.

Am I really going to have to go through most of our marriage recovery in front of other people?

Registered on the phone from my desk. It was a lot more than just names.

Called my wife to tell her so. I think she's going to look into finding us the best hotel discount online.

Good on ya, Markos...... For the life of me, I still can't comprehend the stigma about talking in front of others. As I've said, I work in an open office and we all talk to our wives about just about everything. Makes for some interesting conversations sometimes. Granted if we were talking about "graphically intimate" details I'd step outside or into the conference room but other than that, it's all in the open. Heck, there's a guy here who's been married 40 years and I've learned alot by listening to him talk. And then there's guy who have taught me how not to talk...... Anywho, we've talked this one to death so I'll let it die.

I wish I had a room where I could do that.

I just don't feel intimate with my wife in the presence of other people. And I am calling in order to build intimacy.

I think it's the same reason undivided attention time has to be undivided attention.

As a side note, I've never had to step into the conference room to talk to her but then again I'm comfortable talking about pretty much anything in front of pretty much anybody. What they think of me weighs far less on me then what my wife feels from me when we talk.......

The owner of my company used to be more like you and would only talk to his wife (who is a total nut job....lol....) behind closed doors. But now, after seeing we all do it, he's comfortable to talk and even argue with her right in front of me. And then we may or may not talk about it when he's done.... Male bonding, you know.....

Ain't saying it's right or wrong, just different......