Its a shame and frustrating as I try and talk to some of my WW's friends they either say it's none of their business, they knew nothing about the affair cause they haven't spoke in a while and don't seem concerned and just tell me to look after myself.

So I just looked up the OW's moms facebook page and sent her a little notice about what her daughter is up to with my WW and family.....hope it was the right thing as nobody else seems to care!?! :{

torsade

Let me ask some questions. Maybe I can help.

What is the "Look" of the OW. Is she mannish or feminine? Is she a large woman? They work in the same place, right? And the principal is, uh well, looks in some way mannish, right? I get the feel that your wife is very feminine, right?

There are several different "types" of lesbian relationships that are well known within the culture. If you are ready for the fight of your life, there are vulnerabilities in each type of relationship that can be exploited.

Talk to me.

Larry

Oh, gotta hear this one, Larry.

The OW would be the more boyish type vs my WW. My WW is very female like although the OW isn't exactly a "butch" but does love her sports and doesn't dress too female like too often. The principal is also similar to the OW.

How big is the OW. Weight, height? Very competitive, right?

Larry

About 5'6 not slender but certainly not chubby, yes loves competitive soccer. Its amazing how my wife went to watch her play soccer but in all our years together hardly watched me play hockey...she hates soccer.

so what do I say when my wife is pissed that i started telling ppl about the affair?

Ok, how old is she? What else about her background can you tell me. I got it with your wife, not further details there needed.

I have a picture, but want more if you have it just to confirm.

Larry

Well she worked in the southern US for a couple of years and has been at the school where my WW works for almost 2 years now. nobody really knew her till this year and even still my WW is the only one that knows she is a lesbian at work. She works across the hall from my wife, she lives in Toronto but works in a small community north of the city. She lives alone with her dog, has many gay friends that live inthe same building. I've only seen her twice. She apparently had a girlfriend at the start but i dont believe there was much of a relationship...I think it was more the OW pursuing this girl and she lead her on more than anything and then when my WW came along opportunity knocked. The two of them don't really talk to anyone else in the school...they just do their own thing

Torsade

Trust me on this, please.

There are self described types of lesbian relationships. Normal, committed, radical, casual, butch/fluff, lipstick and some others.

Lesbians are EXPERTS at getting a casual or fluff under control.

Tell me a bit more if you know, or say you don't and I will take it from there. Probably be 30 minutes or so.

Larry

Ok, got it. VERY good background. Will be back in a bit.

Larry

oh she, the OW is 30 i think and my WW is 34

Torsade:

Ok, here is what I think:

Your wife is in a partial butch/fluff relationship. I say partial because I don't know enough about the catting around that the OW has as past behavior. A real deal, full blown, would be a very mannish butch controlling a complete fluff. This doesn't "Feel" as if this is a "Normal," but it does have some possible elements of normal that I will explain.

The big deal here is that OW is going to be controlling. And she will know what she is doing but may not be at the expert level so many of them get to. She sounds like a wannabie butch who wants to play the game but struggles with it. I base that on the prior relationship and the fact that she only has your wife under partial control. A real one would have dominated your wife like immediately and you would be toast.

Well, toast until the butch got tired of her and went on to the next one. That may still happen, especially with a wannabie who isn't getting all the immediate results she wants.

A butch will sit around with others of the same type and talk about how to control a fluff. And over time, they become very, very good at it. It is a game. It is like a bunch of sociopaths talking about how to score. And that is exactly what they do. But they don't just want to score, they want to control and when they are ready to move on to the next one, they want to leave devastation behind. "She'll never get over me," is a common refrain.

They fight dirty, they fight mean, and they have zero honor or integrity. Getting your wife back is going to be the fight of your life. The dopamine fix a butch can generate in her target is unbelievable.

But they can be countered. There are vulnerabilities that can be exploited. For example, their inner workings is much like a serial predator male. The one your wife is with has a slight bent to normal.

You up for it?

Here is the scene: Lesbians, especially in academia, are generally accepted. The theory of coming out of the closet has been sold as something honorable, ignoring the devastation to the families left behind. The motives of a butch are seldom questioned, unlike if it were a serial predator male.

Depending on the school, the community and culture where you live, and the appearance of impropriety, you may or many not be able to get any cooperation from the school. They may blow it off.

I am trying to do this with my son on full interrupt mode. I may have left something out. Will read later to see.

Plan:

Plan A to the maximum.
Journal everything, period, YOU MUST.

The vulnerability is:
Your wife may not be fully committed,
The OW may not be all that good at what she does.
Your kids are the key to the lock.
This could go all the way to divorce.
So having custody of the kids is vital.
It ain't over till its over, even with divorce.

OW will hang on with all four feet. This is competition for her. She will lie, cheat, and do whatever it takes to maintain her hold on your wife. She will also see your KIDS as competition. And she will hate your guts.

Okay, so be a nice guy. Not a doormat, a man, but a nice guy the way a confident man can be. Smile with confidence is your most devastating weapon. It drives the butch out of her mind and she will make mistakes that might drive your wife away.

Couple of devious ploys I have seen: Guy paid another butch to go after his wife. Big fight, wife came home. He was a Lawyer. Another guy hired a stripper lipstick (type of lesbian) to wave it in front of butch. Butch took the bait and wife came home. He was an oil guy.

Plan A, big time. Be male, big time. Wave kids, big time.

I sense a weakness in the butch. If I didn't, I would say forgetaboutit. Until the butch is tired of the game and wants to move on to the next one and casts her aside.

Expose, yes. BUT, expose in a certain way that does not: make you look like a lesbian hater. That would be counterproductive.

What do I need to expand on? Your wife's role?

Larry

Larry, I don't know if this helps but in Canada, we can not file for a D until there is a separation for one full year. Then you file and in 30 days it is done. That means that Tor would have a year from the date his WW moved out. Just throwing a timeline out there for your planning.

I am not good at writing exposure letters. Someone who is good needs to jump in. In this case the exposure letter should be calculated to enrage the OW, throw in the kids and fight dirty, without any mention of lesbian. That this is lesbian deal should be covert through the use of names, not labels.

My opinion.

Larry

Good one Scottie

Lemme think about it. I need feedback from Tor to see how he feels about all this and how hard he wants to fight.

Oh, and Tor, I did a study about 25 years ago on this subject because I had a sister-in-law get involved in exactly the same deal your wife is in. I slithered around to learn what the deal was. Later on, my antenna was tuned to the nuances. I learned some more. Oh, and after a year and a half, SIL went back to husband. It was a long battle. After he got custody of the kids, it was over except for the screaming from butch.

Larry

I love you and I will do whatever it takes to save our marriage and our family.

Then change the subject.

If you want the sales approach used by butch, I can detail it. That one is easy and almost universal. Your wife is a serious trophy in the world of lesbians, a straight, with husband and kids. Wow, what a trophy.

Larry

I agree with a little that Larry said, because it happened to me. I think I posted about it to Tor earlier. When my sons' dad was abusive to me, my boss took me under her wing. She knew what was going on because I called in sick, had to leave early - that kind of thing.

She told me that if I ever needed a place to go, to call her. When my sons' dad beat me up and went to jail, I called her. I moved into her home with my sons (2 and 5). Then I found out she wanted a relationship with me.

Oh, don't want to T/J here (but guess I already did), but in my case, it is true, she was a predator. Found out later that she had a history of targeting married women.

That being said, I think most lesbians are just like the rest of us. They want a relationship with someone they care about and cares about them. The stereotype butch is in the minority.