PM,

I would suggest a "steady as she goes" strategy. Stay in plan B. My guess all is not well in paradise and she is checking out alternate airports for landing. My question to you is after 7 months of plan B would you really want her back?

If so what are the conditions?

I am of the opinion that just losing OM is not sufficient for coming back after this period of time. I would start with medical tests for STD's. Counseling to see if her perspectives on life and relationships had changed at all and clearly some indication that something deep and profound has changed other than she just doesn'tlike living with OM any more.

Good Luck,

JL

PB-

Yesterday she "appeared" to be happy and sane. Most of the time we were together she seemed that way. But there is no doubt some deep seated unhappiness. Like most waywards, I'm sure she convinced herself that our relationship was the cause, and if she found a new relationship she would find happiness. My guess is she is discovering that is not true.

She did not ask for any of her belongings. She did and said some things that implied she might be back to help out around the yard some more - she is a talented gardener and our yard was haven for her. The OM's yard is a weed filled eyesore.

JL - it's definitely steady as she goes. I got scorched a bunch during plan A. I don't know if I want her back. She isn't the person I thought I married. I don't know who she is now. I'm willing to find out though - if she agrees to the conditions of my plan B letter - NC, counseling, transparency.

For now I'll just keep doing what I've been doing the last 7 months - it's worked so far.

Did her parents ever do an intervention?

She did not ask if her stuff was still around. She did say that we had to get our boat fixed - we have a lake cottage; last year some critters tore up the upholstery. She didn't explain why it needed to be fixed, and I didn't ask. Maybe she was testing the waters some more. I had made it clear in the plan B letter that I am not going to the cottage by myself, and the boat won't come out of storage until I go up there authorize it - it's titled to me. She and the OM went there in the fall "to close it up" for winter (the boat was already in storage). I don't know if they intend on going back. I can't control what they do - but I sure as heck can control access to my boat!

I think she has started to communicate with her parents; they are older and have health issues. Her siblings have made a couple attempts to communicate, but they are essentially estranged. She missed the parent's 60th anniversary party thrown by one of her brothers.

I'm curious about her next contact, but it's back to the dark for me.

PM,

Good idea, back into the dark. I think she may be testing and trying to see if she can come in under the radar and NOT have to address the damage she has done, but "get on with life".

Not an uncommon thought process for someone who has done this.

Hang in there.

JL

That's something I've thought about. I don't need an apology or expression of remorse from her but it would be appreciated. I can only imagine the level of guilt she has been repressing. However, I don't think she can "get on with life" (and have a realistic hope of a recovery) until she addresses the damage, and more importantly, the underlying cause that enabled her do it. But that is her decision to make.

I'm sure she's also thought about what our friends and family will think. Everyone tells me they would welcome her back with open arms - assuming she treats me and everyone respectfully. She probably thinks there will be plenty of tongue wagging and gossip,and maybe some hostility. She would have to leave the "safety" of her isolation with the OM.

Any insights on how waywards get over this hurdle?

Reclaiming one's integrity, or finding it in the first place really goes to the core of one's soul
Sometimes we don't want to go there, it can be a frightening place

Any insight into the latest WW's behavior would be helpful.

We are both musicians; there is one orchestra we both play in. We have a lot of friends in this group; we typically went out with them after the concert. I�ve continued that, but she has not joined them since she moved out. There were a couple of concerts she skipped I think for emotional reasons; the ones she played she did not really even talk to anyone. This weekend there was a concert; she was very friendly to me, talked to our friends and came out after. A couple of our favorite musicians that we know well are playing a recital this week; as we were leaving I asked her if she would like to go. She said �No � that would be too much. It�s a strange life�. I left it at that. This morning I got the following email, which is followed by the subsequent exchange:

WW
Hey -- This may seem like something kind of out of left field, but I'm certain that you know why I'm about to say this: I need to apologize to you for something... I am sorry for all of the drama and pressure I put on you over the last 4+ years. It was and it is still difficult. And it made your life complicated. I'm really sorry.

ME
I appreciate your apology, but I am not certain at all as to why you offered it today. While I did enjoy our time together over the last few days, this all certainly has me wondering where you are heading.

I hope both our lives will be uncomplicated some day.

WW
So-- let me clear the air -- I was OK with socializing with old friends but that doesn't mean I feel comfortable going with you to a recital at MSU. I felt bad telling you that I wasn't going. Just because I smile and try to return to normal, I'm sorry if it gets you wondering where I'm heading. -- it doesn't mean I am coming back to (our home).- It really puts me in a rough spot, emotionally. Yesterday I stuck my head out a bit and it got all complicated again. I guess that's why I apologized. I had originally meant just to come out to dinner with my folks, but my mom had to drive home with ???? on account of my dad staying home. I didn't see any harm in just continuing the plan of going to dinner without them and joining you.

However -- It seemed to make people (yourself, primarily) think that we are on a certain course in our relationship. I like being cordial with you but we're not dating. I feel obliged to help out with things at the house because I'm still part owner. What I wish is that I could figure out a way to communicate and socialize with you and not have you not get your hopes up. I'm in a relationship with (OM) and it is unnerving to think that you're waiting for me to give up on him and come home to you or just "do the right thing" and come home to you. What we ought to do is have dissolution of our joint ownership of things and just get on with our lives and be friends. Every time I think that I need to pull my paycheck out and start my own bank account and credit cards, I get all panicky because I don't want to pull the rug out from under you. And yet, as long as I keep supporting the household, you think that I might come back.

I'm trying to give myself a chance at something I wanted for a long time. What can you do to help me?

ME
I'm sorry to hear that things got complicated for you. I don't think anyone - me included - thinks we're on a "certain course". My hopes are not up; I've learned not to jump back on that roller coaster and I apologize if you thought I was.

Thanks for clearing the air.



I think I can read between the lines pretty well, but I would welcome other interpretations of what's going on. My interpretation is that she was thinking about leaving the OM, checked things out, got too close to having to make a decision (and the pain that will go with it), and went back to the status quo. The �apology� is pretty worthless and seems more like bait than anything else. I love all the code � �� in a 'relationship' with OM��; �I'm trying to give myself a chance at 'something' I wanted for a long time�. I suspect she's a mess emotionally.

It certainly was interesting coming out of the dark for a short while, but now it's time to go back.

PM,

I guess my take sort of follows yours. However, I think you should consider that you are not �friends� with her and never will be as long as she is with OM. I am not she is worthy of your friendship given what she has said. Do you really want to keep sharing financial situations with her if she is NOT into this relationship. I know she is in the fog, however, this affair has been going on for four years. She has heavily invested in this affair and she is not likely to do much of anything until things come apart.

She said
You cannot really go into a good plan B while financially entangled unless you can get a court order to prevent her from coming to the house. Also if you need her checks to keep things going, you are entangled with her.

As we discussed earlier, she was fishing and now she has gone back. She is trying to �normalize� her affair by coming back into your life in a peripheral way. I honestly think that while it is hard to give up 30 years, it makes no sense to give up more years given that she has emotionally been gone for almost 4 years. I don�t think you will change this as she is comfortable where she is. However, it is possible that if you change the status quo, things might change. Would you consider selling the house and getting her out of your financial life?? If so, that could rattle things as you could really go dark. It isn�t threatening divorce, but it is giving her the �help� she wants and changes the equation. Her connection to you would now be very tenuous and that might rattle her or it might lead to her filing for divorce.

Sometimes these things are hard to call. You ultimately must make a decision. And you will not ever get great easy to interpret data until/unless she files for divorce. The issue of her mental health still remains and I presume it has not been addressed, but sometimes all you can do is change the game, that is what I am thinking.

Just thoughts. I look forward to yours.

God Bless,

JL

JL,

I still consider her my wife, but she is not my friend and I don't know if she ever will be again. That is up to her.

I don't need her paycheck to keep the house or take care of myself. However, I made it clear that if she didn't contribute to the household financially that she would risk having me sell it - and all her stuff that is in it. I don't ask for her help maintaining the house. She offered and I accepted. If she ever offers again I will not accept.

I have thought about selling the house - and filing for divorce - to rattle things but I don't for 2 reasons: 1) I don't want to at least not now; and 2)it's what she wants - or at least think she wants. I think she just doesn't want to make the move, because then she is responsible for the fallout financially and emotionally. It also blows her backup plan (the OM is a pretty unstable character - she even admits that. If I take action, then she is relieved of the fallout burden.

If she stays stuck (and as you indicate, she very well might unless things fall apart), I expect at some point I will want to sell the house and divorce her. But until I reach that point I'll just keep doing what I've been doing - seems to be working.

PM,

My point is that selling the house and divorce don't need to be linked. Just selling the house might shake up her world no matter how much she says she wants it. Let's face it if she really want things to change she would have filed and you would be selling the house. My guess is deep down you are more than just a fall back position.

If she starts to think you really are going to move on, it might trigger her. I really don't like the idea of threatening or actually filing for divorce to try and pry a WS out of their position on the fence. Hence my suggestion that you might consider selling the house. This more true given that you don't need her financial support to keep the house if you want to.

Just thoughts for you to consider.

JL

IMO, that email was nothing more than another version of "Gee, I really like having two men to fill my ENs and I really wish you'd continue to go along with it."

She's been affair with OM for 4 years and moved in with him back in September???

dude . . . really . . . she has NO reason to change this arrangement and she never will as long as you tolerate it.

Are you aware that this is the person who would make life-and-death decision for you should you be in the hospital?

Are you okay with that?

from the opening post:
She has stated to family that her affair partner claims he is transgendered (I have heard that from him and his former girlfriend, not just my wife), and is supposedly going ahead with the male to female transition.

So your wife is involved with a "man" who wants to be a woman? WTF?

Has this guy went through with the operation? Why would your wife want to be with a man who wants to be a woman anyway? Is she going to stay with him/her after the process of him becoming a woman is complete?

You asked if she has a medical condition...yes, she sure does...it's been 7 months in plan B...pull the plug and move on...