Hey Can't.

Ok, thanks for the head's up about who you are.


We used to have a guy on here whose name is Cymanca. His motto was ""Never shelter anyone from the realities of their decisions": Noodle" He does what you do for a living. Go search for his name and read, please.

See, as you know, you are an Icon. Women chase what you do, the image, the money, the status, instead of who you are. Cross you bear. You can be the biggest flaming jerk with an ego the size of NYC, or a really good guy. It doesn't matter. Don't know what to tell you past that. You have a mess on your hands.

When a woman wakes up and realizes you are not who she thought you were, she gets mad at you, not herself. That you are a good guy or not, doesn't matter. It is your fault. Right? And of course that isn't right on so many levels it is almost impossible to describe.

All the best.

Larry

Thanks Larry...

I don't get much input on this thread. Not sure why, but probably because I am not trying to maintain this marriage any longer. I will just keep posting, just for my own sanity's sake.

I appreciate the support in any regard however. Thanks for your input.

CFIO,

My uncle once said of his soon to be ex:

I need to watch her because she is like a rooster. As soon as I think I am rid of her, she comes back around from behind to spur me.

He was right. She would lay low, quietly, and then strike again. Watch your WW. She seems to be this type.

On one of the threads about reward endorphins, dopamine, PEA, whatever. Some women get hooked on it. They get a bit of a charge from reading female porn, Harlequin and the like. They believe that true love is in an infatuation.

Cant, this is Surviving an Affair. That is this particular sub-forum. Surviving can mean the restart of a marriage, or divorce. In the event of a divorce, you can take advantage by acquiring the emotional tools available here to give it a better and more knowledgeable go of it next time.

The number of posts to you reflects that people can't figure out what would make a difference in your situation. Your wife's personal narrative is apparently fixed on blaming you for all of her own stuff. Kinda hard to change that even though it is total bull crap.

And you seem to be getting your head screwed on straight, not much to do there either, except to cheer on your progress. And confirm your suspicions, validate your guesses and encourage you to keep on keeping on.

Larry

Cymanca's wife was way like that. Yeouch!

larry

Only thing now is whether there is value in exposing everything. Given everything that has happened, I am debating. The affair was almost a year ago. The internet crap was what led to me asking her to leave in November. I DON'T want her back... because I finally have been able to see just what I was doing for the last 4 years, and it is not worth it at all to continue on in that vein.

Perhaps it would put some presence of mind back into her if everyone knew her 'story' from a slightly different perspective. Along with some emails, pictures, and keylogger logs, etc etc.

It would do one of two things... either back her down and we can get this done quietly, or turn her even more ravening and at least people who were mixed into it would have a better understanding of just who it is they are dealing with... both her and ME!

There are two people who I wonder whether they should be notified. They have some interest beyond the 'norm' and the way she is acting, it might be best that they become involved for the sake of others. I am just not sure whether their involvement would be beneficial or trouble for the person I am worried about. I would have always thought it would have been 'bad' before, but now I am not so sure. The lies involved and the things I see certainly make me wonder whether their involvement should increase substantially. We will see how things run out in the next few days.

Read cy's thread. You may find some wisdom there. He is obviously down the road from where you are.

Larry

Larry is right. I'm sure there are quite a few folks reading, but like me, may not have anything constructive to add at the time. I really hope your possible divorce doesn't become a bitter fight over every little thing. Seems to me like she is just pouting and trying to strike back.

I'm not sure if you should expose at this point or not so I don't want to encourage you one way or another. I'm sure you do know that if you do expose, she is going to get 'uber-pi$$ed'. But then again, what have you really got to lose at this point? Remember the purpose of exposure is to shine the light of day onto the affair which thrives in darkness. Yet, it is from a year ago, so what then would the point be? I can still see a point- for one it will build YOUR support network. Two, depending on the targets, it MAY lead to one of the targets influencing your WW to re-committ to the M, if that is still something you want.

I will defer to the vets on this one. Appologize if I'm not making sense. I'm very tired and probably shouldn't be saying anything right now!

I appreciate it SoL.

I have been listening to 'The Shack' again, and I believe that there is no value in me exposing at this time. It would be simple vindictiveness, one of the things I have dealt with from her for so long. Returning something in kind in such a manner would not be the person I am nor have been.

While I fail often, I have tried very hard to live my life right with her. My heart has always been in the right place, but my actions certainly could have been better quite often I suspect. In listening to 'The Shack' from about time 5:30 ->7:00 time frame, the jest is Mac, (main character) speaking with God. This takes on my situations and thoughts which I have struggled with quite often, but one is of 'responsibility and expectations'.

I have 'felt' it was her 'responsibility' to fulfill my needs and I 'expected' her to do so because of that responsibility. I have realized that this simply is not the case in essence of love and respect. I don't know how to explain, and it does SOUND to be different than what we are taught in so many ways. However all I can say is that if you read the book, or I actually prefer to listen as I drive, I can see so much better, how I have held her to a standard by which, she would certainly fail, given her fear and inability to trust in herself, much less me. Living a life fearing failure, fearing truth, and fearing trust does not allow a person the freedom to fail and to believe Love will still be there afterwards. I can see that now in how she dealt with situations, and it breaks my heart.

I always 'thought' she felt as I did, that while you strive to NOT fail, that failure will not influence the basic LOVE which is between a husband and wife, if the person accepts the failure, asks for forgiveness, and works to change. I have never been afraid to fail, but I have failed often. I get up, brush myself off, and work harder. But I see that is not the case with everyone, and therefore, they believe as they believe.

In all your times and trials... I hope you all love yourself and keep yourself within your values. I have broadened my values somewhat... or actually, I have tried to remove the self-righteousness which I have carried around for so long. I recommend listening to 'The Shack'... it is about $7 on iTunes and is well worth it. Put it on and take a drive... keep some tissues with you... you just might come home with a slightly different attitude about all of this mess we find ourselves in. The first hour or so is pretty difficult to get through, but it sets up the rest of the story and is important to understand the main character. But afterwards, I felt as though I was the main character, and could put myself in the situation with my own THINGS instead of the books... it is worth it.

I will certainly stumble and become lost again, but each time I believe that I get closer to being the best me I can be. There is a beautiful illustration about it in the book...

It goes something like this...

If God knows it will take you 47 times of failing in order for you to get your head on straight about a problem... he doesn't hate the failures you incur. When you fail... he rejoices... because he knows that now there are only 46 more to go... and you are that much closer to being who you need to become in the end.

I really liked that anecdote... it gave me a great sense of peace.

T... I care so much about you. I am so sorry for being less than I wish I had been. I forgive you your problems between us. I ask that you forgive me mine. Whether we remain married or divorced, I will strive to act in expectancy rather than have expectations and work to respond rather than believe in responsibility.

Cant

You have seized on knowledge. This means you will come out the other end of this life trial with an understanding of relationships like most males wouldn't even think about acquiring.

That will make you a valuable commodity my friend, valuable indeed.

Larry

Read everyone of Cymanca's posts last night... hit the sack at about 2am. Early on... it sounded as though we had the same wife, although my wife, I don't believe, is based upon an affair at this moment. But I appreciated you pointing out his story and I did see alot of myself in his early posting.

I thought it might get you down the road a bit faster. His early stuff is very much like yours. His end game is not where you are yet. The level of entitlement of his Ex and her off the wall personal narrative could only have come from a totally bonkers LPC, which is what I think she did for a living. Sounds like you have a more run of the mill head job.

Lrry

The most frustrating thing is that I DO LOVE HER. And I KNOW she loves me. But I can't maintain a relationship with the level of neglect and anger I feel from her and she can't maintain or grow a relationship with the level of pressure she feels from me and the level of fear and mistrust she has in herself.

She knows she loves me, but she is so angry at everything that I am the easiest thing to point to as being her primary source of anger. However I know that it is simply that I am a 'safe' target for her outlet. It still hurts though. I know that her lashing out at me over the last few weeks is her fear, sadness, and love all gushing out in inappropriate ways. It is just so amazing to me, the different way people express the same emotions. I was fearful, mistrustful, angry, and scared... and I tried to hold on and love more. I tried to open myself up to her even more than I had been. To me, I believe she had the same emotions, however we never spoke about it directly. When she has these emotions, she turns cold, calculating, distant... she 'hunkers down' and schemes on self preservation. Even though I believe that she cries at night because she wants to be with me. I just don't understand such disparity.

The funny thing is, all these things she has recently done AREN'T what I think about when I think about what hurts so much. IT is all the things in the past which come to mind. Like the ONE TIME I ever got sick, and she never came upstairs to even check on me the whole day. I nurtured her through headaches, stomach aches, etc etc etc our whole relationship. I held her hair back as she puked in the toilet. The one time I get sick and the only person to check on my was my (then) 5 yo daughter. THAT is one of the things which come to mind when I think about things which make me sad.

All the things which go on now are simply continuation of what I unfortunately have come to expect, so they really aren't that big of a deal. It is just so sad sometimes...

She was very good at several things, which I believe she felt I UNDERAPPRECIATED as her attempts to show me love. She is a GREAT COOK, she learned during our relationship and she is the best at it of anyone I have ever known. I really DID appreciate it, and EVERY SINGLE NIGHT I would comment on how good dinner was. I would ask if I could help, and I would stand in the kitchen just to be with her to talk and simply be available. EVERY NIGHT I would do it. We have a rule in our house that if you cook, you don't clean. That was MY rule... one which I brought into our relationship, not because I cooked so much, but because SHE cooked so much. So I would help my kids do the dishes after supper as well. But I don't think she ever felt I appreciated it 'enough' but truthfully don't know how I could have appreciated it more and shown it.

She is also great at buying gifts. She takes the time to really think about good gifts for people, and she has thought of some great and very unique gifts for me. She bought me an 'oil painting class' for Christmas and gave me a 'card' that she had found and would get me 'fencing lessons' for Valentine's Day. We split before the fencing lessons could begin, so nothing ever came of it, but she THOUGHT of it, and that was what counted for me. These are things which she gleened through normal conversation, as things which I always wanted to do, but couldn't work into an already overbooked college schedule. So she gave them to me NOW!

It tells me alot... it tells me that she loves me, because it takes TOO MUCH WORK to come up with these gifts, find the place, figure out times, etc. If she didn't love me much, she would just grab me a shirt while she happened to be at the mall one day. But the things I TOLD her I needed, for some reason, the simple act of telling her, caused her to be unable to address them. Kind of like an Opositional and Defiant personality disorcer seen in children.

For instance, before we were married, she paid a TON of attention to my boys. She would stay later than their bedtime sometimes, and she would go upstairs and bounce on their bed and kiss them goodnight EVERYTIME she was here. She would hug and kiss them, and they AND I, fell in love with her. This all stopped almost immediately upon moving into the house after marriage. When I asked her about it, and told her how important her relationship with my boys was to me and our marriage, she ignored my request. I mean simply IGNORED IT. I told her I loved how she used to tell the boys 'Goodnight' and how all the hugs and kisses made me AND THEM feel so much closer. She would do less and less each time I brought it up. And up until I asked her to move out in NOVEMBER, over 3 years into marriage, She STILL was ignoring them for the most part. Even though I gave her SPECIFIC examples of things which would improve the situation, she simply wouldn't do it. After she moved out, THEN all of the sudden she decided to treat them better, but with her moving out, as you all know, the interaction decreases significantly and everything just grew apart from then on.

It is these types of things which just baffle me to the nth degree. How she can obviously love me and try to show me on one hand, and ignore my direct request to the point of adding to the problem, on the other. Even when I spoke with her as directly, calmly, and distinctly about my thoughts, she just absolutely ignored it.

I just don't understand the disparity.... not at all.....

Lots of resentment showing there Can't. From her. It didn't work out because you were a good catch. And she hid/modified parts of her personality accordingly. Women, many, get onto this ideal and idea of a good catch. Jewish moms are famous for it with their daughters. And it bites them as often as not.

Hard to keep up a facade when you are with someone 24/7. Hard to keep faking it till you make it when you are so eat up with what you expected, you cannot tolerate what you got. Even in the face of what you got was more than you expected.

I have written about good catch deals before. I wish I knew more about it, I know just enough to sometimes see one and understand some of the dynamics. Wish more women would talk about it. I really would like to know more.

Larry

Her mother married a man who turned out ot be aweful for everyone involved. My wife was about 10 I think... somewhere about then. He became/was an alcoholic and treated them very poorly. Her mother treated him equally poorly, but since he made very good money, they stayed together, literally until the youngest went to college, then she left. My wife hated him... and when I met my wife, she couldn't stand being around her mother. They still have a difficult relationship, but it is better.

I think that my wife simply didn't recognize that marriage meant she had to give. Her mother simply subsisted on the financial aspect of the relationship, and otherwise I think they were completely ignorant of each other, except for fights which apparently were hot, heated, and frequent. My wife talks about it often. The odd thing is that she treats me like I were HIM! She ignores me, acts like I am horrible, apparently simply out of expectation that that is how a husband is, so anything I do which could CONCEIVABLY cause her the least discomfort, be that being a TRUE [censored] to simply asking the girls to turn off a light, seems to be RELIVED in her childhood as her perception of the drunken idiot of a stepfather.

She could never tolerate ANY criticism, although she was very critical of herself. I was constantly telling her that I thought she did well, or was good, or something 'good' but she seemed to always think she was bad. As I write this, it was almost as if she didn't love herself, so she didn't think anyone else could REALLY love her either. Hmmmmm...... that might be the case. She just can't believe that I can love her IN SPITE of the things I dislike about her. So she grabs onto the things I don't like and uses them as a shield, and refuses to try to improve things I DO LIKE because she doesn't want to invest in something which is going to so OBVIOUSLY fail anyway. Maybe that is why she changed so drastically immediately after I asked her to marry me.

While writing on here... I constantly find myself thinking things slightly differently than before...

Cant. . .


And as time goes on, you will change your personal narrative many times to deal with reality as you discover it for yourself. Writing stuff down yields a clarity talking to yourself fails to uncover.

Okay, sounds like she is broke and you can't help her. Don't even try.

Larry

Spoke with my preacher today about EVERYTHING in our relationship and my previous marriage as well.

He basically said that it was all up to her and God. If she wanted to do something different, then she would be able to do it. He stated that 'Its up to her. If she wants to change her situation and wants to love you, then she will find a way to do it. I believe, after what you have said, that you love her and she loves you. I also believe that you remain open. However, I believe that should she choose to leave and the divorce becomes final, that you have done all you can in a manner which God would be proud of. He knows BOTH your hearts... so nothing is hidden from him. If either of you have closed your hearts, then your marriage will end. But if she begins to see her part, and instead of running, choses to confront and change it, by repenting, asking forgiveness, counseling and ultimately changing, then I can see you having a great and loving relationship and your daughters having a great mom AND dad. If she chooses to blame, close down, and neglect... run don't walk away. When God put her into your life, perhaps it was just to show her what she could have if she chose it. But, people don't always choose what is good for them, and disregard it until it is too late. At this moment, and up until the papers are signed, it isn't too late. But she will have to decide on her own whether it is better to take the seemingly EASY route and run away, hoping for someone else to be willing to put up with her ways, or whether she wants to buckle down, do the work, and make the changes to regain the love of a good man who already loves both her and her daughters."

It was somewhat amazing that he basically encapsulated everything I felt, in a nutshell of a paragraph or two.

Not his first rodeo. He is trained and he sees with the eyes of experience. He trusts God, as you should.

Great advice Can. <- changed your nickname Thanks for sharing.

Larry

Sounds like you have a very wise preacher. This, to me, was HUGE in coming to terms with my WH moving out and me finally being able to find some peace (not every day, but it's getting better).

Once I realized that I had absolutely no control over what kind of decisions or actions my WH made from here on out, things got so much easier. We can control ourselves and we can pray for them, but they are basically on their own (hopefully with God's guidance in there somewhere).

Oh, and thanks for reminding me about The Shack. That was one of those 'life changing' books that I read about a year ago and probably should be pulling out again to read.

Wow, your wife sounds like she really struggles- she sounds so incredibly conflicted! I'm still seeing sooo many BPD traits in her. As you know, those traits are what make people with BPD so incredibly fantastic and charming in the beginning (almost too good to be true)....and so unpredictable and heartwrenching once they feel threatened by feeling too close to you and decide to bolt.