Yeah, my DS too...when a M is disinigrated in such a manner, mine was also, its just a lifetime wound for everyone involved...my WH still always says, "my wish for us was always that we could just end up being good friends"

Well if that was his wish all along how did he think lying, cheating, calling me sick and crazy, saying he never loved me and our marriage was a sham, abandoning me and DS, blaming everything (including Affair) on me...etc......was gonna make us good friends? IDK, I guess us and our children are just scarred for a lifetime by all this.

We just need to keep fighting and doin the best we can for our children, esp since only one parent seems to have their best interest at heart.

I never imagined in my wildest dreams that my H would become WH and that I would be his worst enemy....and he would be mine and DS's also.

My mother's OMH did something very similar and has kept up that mantra with my mom for over 30 years. Dad was not the greatest H, I admit. He did not have the tools necessary to know how to be a good H. However he worked 6 days a week to support us. He let my mom take us on vacations he hated because it made her happy. Was he unreasonable in some areas? Yes. Was he a bit emotionally abusive? Possibly. Om comes along on his white horse and throws a grenade into two families lives. OMH continues for 30 plus years to remind my mom what an *ss my father was to her. OMH tried for many years to recreate a "happy" family ideal with my mom and HER kids. (his kids pretty much wouldn't have anything to do with him for many years and one son is still not speaking to him) Problem was he was so abusive and ugly toward us, this "happy" family was never going to happen. So then he would try to keep us from our mother. Nice huh?

Even now with my mom having Alzheimers and he being her primary caregiver he continues to try to be her sole "hero" in her life. It is disgusting. The only good thing is since he still has this obsession with her after all these years he has actually been a pretty decent caregiver for her since her diagnosis (well except for the times he jumps all over her for remembering "their" history wrong)

"I just want us to be friends" really means "I want to be able to destroy my family and feel good about it. If you'll be my friend, then that proves I didn't really hurt you and I didn't do anything wrong."

That's why so many WS, even XWS, are very angry and frustrated if the BS/XBS refuses to be "friends".

This hit the nail on the head so perfectly��being friends� is the WS/xWS�s way of alleviating guilt and avoiding responsibility via a fa�ade of �cordiality� toward the BS/xBS. It�s sort of says (in the wayward�s mind) �Look everyone! My xS & I get along great now�see????� When the BS/xBS won't go along, that is when the wayward usually starts trotting out the "he/she is just bitter!" defense.

My xWW pulled this one too (�I hoped we could be friends or at least friendly��) and got really belligerent and vengeful when she discovered that I/former-family/former-friends wouldn�t go along and had nothing but contempt for her actions & unrepentance.

Many a BS fail to realize the importance of clearly and calmly informing their WS as to the nature of their relationship post D. I think it tends to be an overlooked weapon in the fight against the A.

Mulan and SDCW are pointing out something I've also heard firsthand. I have let Skatt know on several occasions how it's going to work IN REALITY. The WS must not think for a second that you'll be their buddy, their pal, or their hamburger and hotdog griller at the big family BBQ. Granted we never really know what TRULY goes on in the mind of a wayward, but Skatt has admitted that one of the drawbacks to going plan D is knowing we will have an extremely limited relationship that will focus entirely on the welfare of the boys -- and that she will have NOTHING CLOSE to the fantasy divorce scenario that bounced around in her head early in this tussle.

There are MANY important tasks at hand in the fight against an A. Blowing up the fantasy divorce mindset -- which festers in the heads of most WS -- is also a crucial one that should not be overlooked or minimized.

TB

For anyone interested in the topic, please see the MB thread "The Fantasy of Divorce" in the link below:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2275600#Post2275600

Now back to your regularly scheduled affairage discussion.

This bears repeating:

Its sickening how waywards are all sooo much alike in their thinknin, isnt it?

Larry,
I do not know your history and have to admit to speed reading a great deal of what has been said here.
I was one of the unfortunates who came here to try to put some perspective on what turns out to be a minor blip in a very harmonious and happy marriage, only to be lambasted by virtually everyone who read my post because I had met my wife after I had filed for divorce from my ex.
Not only did the supposed help (from MB posters) create more of a problem in my marriage, it nearly finished it and I eventually, after being accused of everything from mental illness to basically being a sinner, gave up on the whole idea of MB. I took a course of traditional none bias, non faith based marital therapy and what was an issue, is no longer one.
I implore you not to get embroiled in any of this nonsense and try to look deeply at what you have and how lucky you can be. We all meet our spouses in different ways, and yes, sometimes when we least expect it or it is not ideal, but a current marriage is the one that counts.
I have not posted here for a very long time but occasionally peak at what is going on and have discovered that it is really the insecure making the less secure feel worse. In my case, and I am sure that this will be edited anyway, it was a total disaster ever bumping into this site.
I know that things can go wrong in any relationship for various reasons, but we cannot choose always who we fall in love with and why. All that matters is that we are as good a person as we can be and work hard to remain that way.
I suffered extremely badly exposing myself to some of the folks here and it created a great deal of crisis in my house. Luckily my wife and I made sense of our lives and got things in perfect condition.
We all make mistakes and we certainly are never far from creating problems if we so wish. Please though, do not think of yourself as a bad person because you fell in love. You didn't cause a problem and you certainly were not the catalyst to the end of a previous relationship.
I know people will accuse me of wayward thinking, as they have you, and to be quite frank I do not care. I also know that I am classed as an affariage and to be quite frank, that does not bother me either. If I am a threat to the paranoid or insecure then so be it, but it is not something after 10 years of being together with my now wife that I tried to create.
I don't take pride in the fact that I was part of a failed marriage 10 years ago, but I am certainly not going to beat myself up for the rest of my days for it and especially not ruin what happiness I have now found in my wife and our MARRIAGE.
Look deep inside yourself and if you are truly and completely satisfied with what you find then the rest is irrelevant. Don't ignore what you read here, just don't let it get you down. Some of it comes from a far worse place than you have ever been.
Larry, just be yourself and look elsewhere for a solution to your issues. Don't allow yourself to be beaten up by people who seem hell bent on condemning your relationship in whatever form it took.
Good luck and keep strong.

Fasten your seatbelts.

you may wish to. I have much to say !!
Recovery is not ALL about guilt.

This thread has evolved beyond its intended purpose, which was to give Larry an opportunity to explain his position. That purpose has been served so we are locking this thread.