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Apparently I am in the minority here, Butterfly but I would have so welcomed it if my WH had written down what you wrote in your first post and shared it with me. It was so honest about your feelings, how you got yourself into the mess you are in and how torn you are. I did not hear you blaming anyone but yourself.
My WH was never able to discuss the feelings that surrounded his A or even how he felt about hurting me. He is rather emotionally closed off. He always has struggled with expressing feelings and I would never encourage him to hide his feelings even if they hurt.
You know your BH better than anyone. Do not do or say anything right now that would magnify his pain. I am sorry if I steered you wrong.
One day soon you will be amazed and ashamed of yourself for the feelings that you thought you had for OM and for putting your family in jeopardy because of them.
God's Blessings,
Say
Me, BW-57
FWH 54
4 kids and 4 grandbabies between us
In recovery since D-day, May 28,2007
FWH never onboard the MB boat but still clinging to the side.
One day at a time by God's grace.
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Excellent. You are off to a very good start. Thank you. It actually helps alot to know that I'm doing the right things and that that is recognized. There are a few universally true concepts that most people don�t know about �love� and most WSs don�t want to hear about when they are in the throes of the addiction:
1. �Falling in love� is not love. It is infatuation and an emotional high caused by brain chemistry.
2. �Falling in love� with an affair-partner is far different that FIL with (�in the right way�) an eventual marital partner. The latter does not require secrecy, deception, betrayal, familial destruction, or selling out one�s standards and values. It is not based on pure fantasy, idealization, vulnerability, or a �search for happiness�. Affair-partners are not the wonderful people they seem during the affair�they are almost always users, manipulators, opportunists, and pathologic liars without any character to speak of.
3. True LOVE is a set of attitudes and actions�it is VOLUNTARY.
4. Real love is therefore a CHOICE, not a feeling.
5. Choosing positive attitudes and positive actions will inevitably result in positive feelings. Yes, by loving your husband you plant the seeds to �fall back in love� with him. Then your feelings are re-aligned with your values, standards, principles, family, and with the person of loyalty and character that you originally married. Thank you again for the advice. I do firmly believe 1, 3, 4, and 5 and I'm not disputing #2 but just not ready to accept it yet either. It would be easier to tell you all that I agree wholeheartedly but honesty is better if anyone can help me with this process.
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Just curious on this....I've been advised her not to say things to him that I have typed in here. But now several of you have suggested I bring him here. How does that work? Bringing him here is saying those things I've been told not to say. Not bringing him here isn't fair to him because I believe that we could both learn alot from this forum and site articles. Do you see the dilemma here? BF, thats ok to bring him here and let him see the thread. Just don't say stuff like that to him in the future.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Any "friendship" you initiate or maintain via secrecy or deception from your spouse is AN EMOTIONAL AFFAIR at the very least. Our friendship (the part I feel at times that I'm "missing" or "still addicted to") is the one that wasn't secretive or deceptive. It was open, and our spouses were both part of those friendships as it was all four of us that at one time at a friendship before I made the decision to damage the friendships and both marriages. Any "friendship" in which you have ever said or done anything that you would not have said or done with your spouse standing right there, is AN EMOTIONAL AFFAIR at the very least. I understand. And until the sexual part of our relationship, I never did or said anything that I wouldn't have if my husband had been there --- and 90% or more of the time he WAS there.
Last edited by Butterfly10; 04/23/10 03:24 PM.
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Believe it. Trust me, I know, I'm a man, and a very sexual one at that. Can't argue with that...  When I'm hanging out with my FWW's friends, the ones I am not attracted to, I'm fine with just saying, "Hi, how are you doing." Her more attractive ones, I have a hard time avoiding chatting them up. I guess I don't quite "get" this because I hang out and chat with the attractive and non-attractive friends, neighbors, and colleagues. I don't consider myself a social butterfly all of the time, but I can develop friendships with people that are both attractive and non-attractive to me. This "friendship" was completely fake and based entirely on his attraction to you. If he were not attracted to you, this "friendship" would have never occurred. This didn't just "happen." OM deliberately cultivated this relationship and your lack of proper boundaries allowed it to escalate. It's an ugly truth isn't it? Yes, an ugly thought. And one that I am not sure I can admit yet. Maybe because it hurts, or because the emotion is raw or because I'm still "addicted"...or all of the above.
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I just want to make sure that she understands she can experience this passion in her MARRIAGE, but in her marriage, it will last. It has a future, unlike a sleazy affair. I understand and thank you Melody.
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Saynomore,
No apology is necessary. Thank you for your opinion and insight.
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The other man and his wife contacted us today. They were together as were my husband and I and they made a request which my husband and I denied.
They are being incredibly nasty and sending me text messages that are derogatory to both my husband and I. I deserve this and I accept that because of my poor choices.
But my husband didn't deserve the way I treated him. Even more so, he doesn't deserve the way that they are treating him now. And I don't know how to help. I have been honest with my husband and show him any correspondence I receive - but it's hurtful to him. I don't know how to help that and yet I know it is my fault.
But I'm unable to control OM and his wife, and that is hard. And I don't know how to help my husband with the motions of being treated like garbage by these two.
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Change all of your contact info and cut them out of your lives.
God's Blessings,
Say
Me, BW-57
FWH 54
4 kids and 4 grandbabies between us
In recovery since D-day, May 28,2007
FWH never onboard the MB boat but still clinging to the side.
One day at a time by God's grace.
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The other man and his wife contacted us today. They were together as were my husband and I and they made a request which my husband and I denied. Can you share with us what their request was? As far as your BH coming here and seeing your thread: I'm of two minds on this. First, I think this site a water to a thirsty soul. As a former BS, I couldn't read enough on it and have spent hundreds of hours here. Some of the posts mirrored much of my sitch, and although some of it was painful to read, it was a huge eye-opener. I realized how completely ordinary my sitch was in the Land of the Affair. And I received comfort by reading posts of other BSs. Having said that, I'm for getting your BH on here. If he does read your thread, he'll be seeing a lot of good feedback from other posters who will posting to help both of you. My question to you is: Do you feel you can post honestly if you know he might be reading your posts? Or would you find yourself tailoring them for his benefit? If that's the case, you might want to hold off on having him come here. Print off the emotional needs questionnaire and go through that with him, for a start.
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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It sounds like you are off to a great start with deciding to drop alot of your IBs (Independend Behaviors) and begin doing RC (Recreational Companionship) WITH your H. This is truly crucial for M recovery. You have a good list going and brainstorming will add even more. Eventually it will be second nature to only do RC with your H and you will not at all miss the IBs. Hard to believe now but we are living proof of this. My H tells me all the time that his favorite time of the week is our UA time...this coming from a man who was King of IBs is really saying something.  We have tons of fun together now, why would either of us want to do something alone that we could do together? As for the OW/hiw W contacting you, you need to change all of your contact info ASAP. Both you and your H should do this if they are also contacting him. It's a small price to pay for peace of mind. And yes, bring your H here. You can always go back and edit your posts of things that you know would be hurtful.
Me,BW - 42; FWH-46 4 kids D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006 D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR) Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007 In Recovery and things are improving every day. MB rocks.
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Butterfly,
Where did the wonderful man go? He now seems to be painting you and your husband as the wrong doers.
Even more so, he doesn't deserve the way that they are treating him now. And I don't know how to help. I have been honest with my husband and show him any correspondence I receive - but it's hurtful to him.
Your honesty will be painful in the short term, but in the long term will favor you, it is the only thing which will save your marriage.
Of the four players in an affair the BH, BW, WH and WW, the BH is the one who is looked upon as carrying the greatest shame by many people, please understand that.
God Bless
Gamma
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Change all of your contact info and cut them out of your lives. My phone is a company phone and I don't have the ability to change the number and unfortunately they keep contacting on that number. But as of last night, they said they wouldn't contact our family again. We'll see.
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Can you share with us what their request was? They wanted me to help them pay for a bill he incurred during the affair. The OM and I both had expenses related to the affair and about a month ago I agreed to give him money for this bill and he could tell his wife that his company reimbursed through petty cash. I agreed to do this in order to keep the secret and avoid his wife getting too worked up about the bill. However, that didn't happen before the exposure and ending the affair. As far as your BH coming here and seeing your thread: I'm of two minds on this. First, I think this site a water to a thirsty soul. As a former BS, I couldn't read enough on it and have spent hundreds of hours here. Some of the posts mirrored much of my sitch, and although some of it was painful to read, it was a huge eye-opener. I realized how completely ordinary my sitch was in the Land of the Affair. And I received comfort by reading posts of other BSs.
Having said that, I'm for getting your BH on here. If he does read your thread, he'll be seeing a lot of good feedback from other posters who will posting to help both of you.
My question to you is: Do you feel you can post honestly if you know he might be reading your posts? Or would you find yourself tailoring them for his benefit? If that's the case, you might want to hold off on having him come here. Print off the emotional needs questionnaire and go through that with him, for a start. I will consider these two thoughts. Thank you for sharing.
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Butterfly,
Where did the wonderful man go? He now seems to be painting you and your husband as the wrong doers. I think "Other Man" is acting out of frustration and hurt from the entire experience. I can understand that but his actions do reinforce that he is not wonderful. Of the four players in an affair the BH, BW, WH and WW, the BH is the one who is looked upon as carrying the greatest shame by many people, please understand that. I understand that and I know that he is hurt tremendously. I know he is feeling alot of shame and in all respects I do have to say that I will repeat this as often as I can, I don't believe there is another man on this planet who would be as supportive as my husband would be. He is dealing with his own pain but is still sympathetic to mine which is amazing. I don't deserve his support but I am grateful that I have a man who is willing to try to regain trust and learn how to make our marriage stronger. So, to those of you who were betrayed and yet still support your former cheating spouses, I recognize how much strength that takes and I have a great deal of respect and admiration for you.
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Change all of your contact info and cut them out of your lives. My phone is a company phone and I don't have the ability to change the number and unfortunately they keep contacting on that number. But as of last night, they said they wouldn't contact our family again. We'll see. Have you asked your company? If you're serious about "no contact," then you WILL ask. Tell them the current number is compromised in a way that subjects you to harrassment & thus hinders your work -- i.e., they have a financial interest in giving you a new number. I didn't think my employer would switch my office number, but I asked, and as it turned out, it was a piece of cake & cost nothing. And most importantly, this gave my wife a bit of extra peace of mind. Consider it, butterfly. You need actions, not just good intentions.
Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
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Excellent. You are off to a very good start. Thank you. It actually helps alot to know that I'm doing the right things and that that is recognized. There are a few universally true concepts that most people don�t know about �love� and most WSs don�t want to hear about when they are in the throes of the addiction:
1. �Falling in love� is not love. It is infatuation and an emotional high caused by brain chemistry.
2. �Falling in love� with an affair-partner is far different that FIL with (�in the right way�) an eventual marital partner. The latter does not require secrecy, deception, betrayal, familial destruction, or selling out one�s standards and values. It is not based on pure fantasy, idealization, vulnerability, or a �search for happiness�. Affair-partners are not the wonderful people they seem during the affair�they are almost always users, manipulators, opportunists, and pathologic liars without any character to speak of.
3. True LOVE is a set of attitudes and actions�it is VOLUNTARY.
4. Real love is therefore a CHOICE, not a feeling.
5. Choosing positive attitudes and positive actions will inevitably result in positive feelings. Yes, by loving your husband you plant the seeds to �fall back in love� with him. Then your feelings are re-aligned with your values, standards, principles, family, and with the person of loyalty and character that you originally married. Thank you again for the advice. I do firmly believe 1, 3, 4, and 5 and I'm not disputing #2 but just not ready to accept it yet either. It would be easier to tell you all that I agree wholeheartedly but honesty is better if anyone can help me with this process.
Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
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Yes, Butterfly, find a way to change that number. Your husband will never feel safe as long as OM has the ability to contact you at his fingertips. It tests both your willpower and OM's and is cruel to your BH.
God's Blessings,
Say
Me, BW-57
FWH 54
4 kids and 4 grandbabies between us
In recovery since D-day, May 28,2007
FWH never onboard the MB boat but still clinging to the side.
One day at a time by God's grace.
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Butterfly, have you brought your husband here yet? My suggestion would be to bring him here, let him read this thread, but ask him to start his own thread. That way we can help him navigate through his emotions. He has the greatest need for help in all this.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I want to add something about the OM and his feelings for you. Any man who would "DO" a married woman does not love or respect her, he has just spat in her face. He has treated her as an unpaid wh*re.
That is not "love," that is disrespect and degradation. It is the highest insult to a married woman. A person who cares about you will not help you degrade yourself in the worst possible way. That is the kind of man the OM is. He has spit in your face, Butterfly, and deserves to be slapped, not remembered with fond feelings.
This is the view of someone who is not high on the fog of affair addiction; an objective, realistic view.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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