MelodyLane is so descriptive, isn't she. She has pissed off more than a few with her choice of words.... But then again, it's hard to get mad with a messenger like ML that is sooooo accurate in the description of what we, as a wayward, have done to the person we promised to love and to cherish.

Yanno, I once thought I was somehow a victim myself in all of this..... I thought, hey what about meeeeee. Look at my terrible childhood, having been abused, my drug addictions, my alcoholism, my my my my poor pityful past and confusion......

Why,,, I'm a victim toooo!

I played this victim card well.

I sought sympathy whenever I started feeling judged.

It was all justification and rationalization....

Yanno what someone once told me about justification and rationalization?

They said, in the long run justification and rationalization is pretty much like masterbation, your only screwin' yourself!

Made me mad.... but later it made me laugh. Kinda like ML's post may make you mad, but one morning you'll wake up and see them as truths you've avoided seeing most of your life.

I hope ya stick around! Never know what you might learn.... Heck, you may even do so well at this recovery stuff that a National Holiday is created in your honor..... lol

ITA.

SoCal - Really glad you're here, man. This is THE place to be to recover your marriage.



I just wanted to address this really quick as I saw it wasn't mentioned above.

YOU know you're being truthful - but SHE doesn't. In her mind she still has plenty to worry about - you lied during the affair and trickle-truthed her for several months. Secret email accounts and secret cell phones are common among waywards and pretty easy to get, false recoveries happen - she doesn't KNOW that these aren't the case and your word isn't good enough, you've damaged that. It is going to take a long time before she actually believes, in her heart, that you are being truthful.

Good for you for being open, keep it up and she will begin to believe you. From what I've read her 'auditing' you is completely normal for a BS. Constantly asking the same questions is also normal - it is how she verifies that you are being truthful. I got the impression that this activity was bothering you, if it is realize it is what SHE needs to heal and you need to accept that.

I hope you don't think I'm bashing - just wanted to give you a little glimpse into her mind. I'm really glad you're here, for your wife's and marriage's sake, please stick around.

Dont get me wrong at all. I was merely commenting that its easier to run for the hills. I am in no way considering it an option. I try to convey to her daily and often that I am greatful she is staying to work us out and that I am sorry and commited as well. Trust me, its hard not to look at her and feel ashamed and remorseful that I did this to her. And yes Melody, I know I DESERVE this feeling.

So, actually, the most recent A was your third A???? How long has your W known about the other two?


AM

Thanks everyone for the huge outpour. Its a little daunting to keep up with the flows in my head in conjunction with all of your wisdom here. But I'll try instead to summarize everything here instead of QQing everything and messing up the thread.

I think you are all right and have great insights. Let me recap what I actualized in my weird combo of lucid dreams and insomnia last night.

You are right; I am coming off as defensive and guilt ridden, when actually it is very deep remorse. I left my best friend on a dusty bus stop while I went off and betrayed her to the very core. It�s a chronic day dream of mine to jump in my time machine and insert walls and boundaries and make right unmet EN's where they went messing. I did come off as Joe cool in my posts yesterday. The fact that you are a weak, lying and cheating scumbag is dirty water to drink, it�s uncomfortable no matter how much I deserve it. I tried to act that way here and not with her and that backfired. So all this garbage of mine does manifest itself sometimes as indifference and after yesterday I see that I let it creep into interactions with my wife. But yesterday I tried just dumping off my chest without much thought. I just needed it off my back for a few minutes. To look at yourself in the 3rd person while you analyze and be horrified by what you see is hard and I was a bit defensive when it felt like some were throwing salt over my shoulders at it too, but then again this is electronic and not voice, you couldn�t have known and I could have been a better writer.
So I am going to take today to try and add an unlimited supply of humility available to my wife. I will probably fail, but I will try. I'm not arrogant enough to even assume I can fast track anything. Steve has mentioned this every time and it was probably the easiest thing to grasp. Being a good enough man to do the right things everyday to help her heal is a challenge I'm going to have to rise to everyday.

Thank you tst, what I was looking for more than anything was a little support. I'm not perfect, hell if I was, I'd be laughing at what I'm writing now. I'm majorly flawed; I just was even more stupid to be weak and primal on top of it. To not be evolved and self aware is just one crime I'll never stop doing time for. I'm never going to make this right, it�s not possible. My goal is to correct, continue and evolve as a couple to where the pain becomes manageable.
But I still do need to figure out the why for me, it�s just who I am. Because if I don�t know why I didn�t have those boundaries up, then they won�t stay up. Everything we do as simple humans is defensive or aggressive. Face it, for all of what modern society brings us we�re still tribal/primal forms. In order to have defenses we need something to defend and I want to strengthen our marriage and have more than just the notion to defend. I think I was jumping in way too soon by trying to address just that yesterday. I need to concentrate on the wounds now. Now I just need to be able to figure out when it�s time to grow past the injury.

They were all discovred at about the same time, roughly speaking.

He took a poly and passed that this IS all of the truth.

Socal...how're things going today? What, specifically, is it that you're saying/doing that is hurting/upsetting your BW?

If you start there we can help you know what to say and when to say it...and more importantly, what NOT to say, LOL.

Thanks for that. Its a new day, let me screw up first! LOL

Socal...ready for a 2x4?

Actually, you do not know the severity of it all...not even close. One day, I believe you will but right now, you don't. It took my H a looooooooong time to fully grasp the amount of trauma he'd dropped on me. You SAY you get it, but you don't....yet. Just believe me on this, ok?

Did you know that finding out about your spouse's affair is compared to being RAPED and/or the DEATH of a child?

If you and your BW had just lost a child (or she'd been raped) would you be stating: "But the fact of the matter is we have kids, jobs and life in some manner has to go on".

We all KNOW life has to go on and actually, the fact that she is still getting up everysingleday, going to work, making dinner, caring for children is HUGE. I could barely get out of bed at her point!

You are only what...about a month past your last d-day? THAT is the point at which recovery began. She is still on full-blown life-support and you want to know when these things can go "on" like before.

I'll give you a HUGE hint...the sooner you begin expressing total and complete remorse without a shred of justification or blameshifting AND begin protecting her with everything you have, then you will be on a great path!

socal, glad you are back with us today. You will gain respect from this board (and your BW) by continuing to come back and post no matter how harsh it can get. Humility and a willingness to listen without defensiveness is key to success at this stage. You have dealt your BW a lot of pain. You have much to overcome in your marriage and personal healing. The good news though is you came to the right place. Dr. Harley has the success rate and your are counseling with his son. You seem willing to do what your BW needs. Another plus on your side. You are being honest with, again a plus in your favor.

People post here mostly because they want to give back what they gained on these boards and from Dr. H's methods. So let things slide off your back when the going gets rough.

Your post this morning is better...good job.

It was a choice, SoCal...pure and simple. You didn't have boundries up to protect you and your BW because you CHOSE not to. It felt good to have your need for Admiration met, you felt entitled to having your needs met no matter the cost to yourself, your W or your M.

No one held a gun to your head and forced you to have ONSs.
No one held a gun to your head and forced you to have a three-month-long A. You CHOSE to do these things SoCal...you and no one else.

You are right...it's important for you to understand this and I'm glad you are wanting to. I'm sorry if it sounds harsh but it really is crucial for THIS to be understood and for the idea that it was unmet ENs that led to your affairs to NEVER enter your mind again.

It wasn't.

and Please SoCal - PLEASE, don't trot out unmet EN's as an excuse for your affair - which is what I see in what you wrote above. Certainly unmet EN's make you vulnerable and receptive to an affair but they are NEVER an excuse.

You went back to an old GF so I'd say it was opportunity - an opportunity you just took because it was on a platter.

Your wife was pregnant and she didn't cater to your every whim? Poor baby.

Talking about unmet EN's is really blame shifting. Until you can accept responsibility 100% without and "but's" then you are blame shifting. Saying BUT negates everything you say before that point.

ITA (I Totally Agree).

Don't say this to K, SoCal...ever. Any LoveBank (LB$) units you have managed to fill up will be totally and completely wiped out if you do.

Think of it this way...do you think you were meeting HER ENs while you were having ONSs and As? We all know you were not, yet she did not have an A.

It wasn't unmet needs that allowed your affairs...it was your weak boundaries.

The good news it that this can CHANGE!!! You can have strong boundaries AND get your needs met!!

How was today?

SoCal, if it was "unmet ENs" that caused affairs then there are countless BS here who should have had affairs but didn't.

They "should" have had affairs because their ENs were being ignored by their Wayward Spouses (who were wayyyy too busy with their OP to spend any kind of time with their Betrayed Spouses).

These BSs were being starved to death emotionally. Sometimes for months. Sometimes for *years*. So why didn't they go out and have an affair?

Answer: Boundaries. They put boundaries in place because they did not want to destroy what remained of the marriage by being just as destructive as the WS. And they just plain didn't want to humiliate their families or themselves by being seen in public as a cheater.

Unmet ENs cause unhappy marriages.

But Poor Boundaries allow someone to cheat in the first place, whether they have Unmet ENs or not.

SoCal, you out there?

Please read the book of James in the Bible for a little more clarity.

Pay close attention to the verses, James 1:13-15

"When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death."

Then order the book "Fall In Love, Stay In Love, by Dr. Willard Harley, Jr.

Available on audio CD as well. I have both and enjoy both again and again. I've listed to and read this book at least 10 times now.

You are very foggy and need to begin working this program as it's designed. You cannot fumble through un-prepared or you will fail..... and your M will fail as well!

Are you willing to work the ENTIRE MB Program or not?

Sorry guys for dropping out yesterday. Work and home was pretty crazy.

TST, I'm definatley willing to work it out. Its the reason I posted in the first place as I knew I wasnt doing something right. I know that (as usual) I'm probably not going about it correctly so your suggestions help. I'm going to order the book and read what you suggested.

I'm sure I'll get more out of continuing to read your responces to others as well.