I think you are confused about the timescale, Telly. My angry outburst was on Tuesday night. I did exactly what I said Wednesday morning: I did do better Wednesday night.

What the -

YOU PLANNED A LOVE BUSTER?

YOU PLANNED TO ABUSE YOUR WIFE?

You PLANNED it?

Most men who AO would have people believe that they simply "lose control." Yet you are saying you actually had the mental wherewithall to PLAN AN EPISODE OF ABUSE?!


Whew!

An opportunity to calm down.



So why did you NOT use the opportunity for calmness to take a moment for yourself & re-assess how you were going to tackle your concern in a way which did not serve to withdraw love units from your account and harm your marriage?

You have been posting here for how long and even advising other people! if another guy here had asked you what to do, what would you have advised?

Point is - I KNOW YOU KNOW BETTER THAN THIS.


OMG...

May 14th is just around the corner, but this problem is WELL WITHIN your level of understanding and ability to solve.

Shame on you Markos.

No.


Somewhat.


I think anybody who took a vow for better or for worse should provide caring love for their spouse, but I think that's immaterial, because it's not my job to make Prisca do what she should do.


No.

Nor do I think this is a problem you'll solve with feminism.

Markos,

I had an affair so you can not even imagine how my BH feels. One thing positive that has come out of this whole mess is that is put things in persepctive. For him, AO's were a daily occurrence. This is not a history rewrite as friends, collegues and family members have confirmed this.

By the time that I realized the toll this was taking on me, I was so withdrawn and with such poor boundaries that the affair was easy.

I am not saying this to justify my actions or those of any other WS. I am saying this because in your situation, your wife has withdrawn but she has NOT done this horrible disgusting thing. She made a choice. She may retreat back into her shell sometimes because she is afraid...but she is NOT retreating to another man's arms.

My husband found some perspective, he does not AO over a mess the kids made or forgetting to turn on the drier. You do not want to find perspective this way and I do not wish it on either you or your wife or your children.

She is not perfect but she is better than me. Please allow for imperfections before she gives up entirely.

Wait a minute. Prisca's night of hitting me with two hours of independent behavior and refusing to even speak to me came nearly twenty-four hours before my angry outburst.

We had undivided attention time scheduled from 8 to 10 and she baked until 9:30 for a ladies' church event the next day. I kept asking how I could help and she refused to answer. We finally sat down at 9:30 and I asked if she wanted to do what we had planned, and she still didn't answer. At 10 I went to bed. She woke me up later, accidentally; when I went back to bed, I told her calmly why I was upset: she spent the evening love busting me with independent behavior.

The next day, I was coaxing her out of withdrawal again.

I asked her what was wrong, and she said that I had refused to help her the night before.

All of this happened before my angry outburst. I just want to make sure the timescale is clear:

Monday - Prisca's independent behavior
Tuesday - my angry outburst
Wednesday - my statement that I would do better

Practice what you preach markos.

There is absolutely NO Justification for INTENTIONALLY ABUSING your wife in front of your children.

None.

It's not IMMATERIAL!

She cannot be reasonably expected to love and care for you if you won't love and care for her. That's like asking her to Plan A you indefinitely which will give her PTSD.

YOU know better - YOU HAVE TO GO FIRST!

I thought you were further along than this mark.... Go back, and print out Mark's Space/Grace post. Put it at your desk, read it any time you feel your blood boiling and you start planning another abuse of your wife- you know, that person you took a vow for BETTER OR FOR WORSE to provide loving care of.

*********************edit**********************

Markos, boy, you sure been getting an earful this morning... And son, just so we're clear, all the justifications in the world and all the timetables do not deminish the facts. Remember, your focus is squarely on you and the facts are you dropped the ball.

You, with malice intent, went after your wife.
You, with malice intent, exposed your children to abuse.
You set y'alls recovery back.

I could care less what your wife did, I ain't talking to her, I'm talking to you. The good news is you have had moments of clarity along the way and you do know how to fix this. So when are you truly going to start trying?

Just a thought, don't know if it applies to your situation...

When my husband asks what he can do to help it is usually because he knows I will say "that's okay" or "I'm good thanks." What would drive me crazy is that it appeared obvious to me what needed done and I thought his asking was a way of getting out of it. Clearly a huge DJ but not unfounded. He would often say things like "Is there any ice cream?" or "Did we get the paper?" which was my cue to go and get these items.

This is not okay and a huge DJ on my part but, maybe if you were to just start doing something....you're a smart man, you can probably figure it out and believe me, if you are doing it wrong, she will let you know and THEN maybe give you something to do.

This was super hard for me because I thought I would pay for it later by having to do something I didn't want to. "I emptied the dishwasher, so now I'm going out with the guys." or I would need to heap on tons of praise. "Did you see I emptied the diswasher, I did a good job right?"

Even just sitting and talking while I have to do chores is helpful to me...rather than "Can I do anything to help" said as he quickly exists the room.

Good luck.

Understand that I was not saying I don't have to do what I'm supposed to. I was saying that I don't have a right to try to make Prisca do it.

Start trying?

How will we recognize progress once I start?

You're making excuses and you know better.

That's disgusting.

STOP AOing your wife.

Perhaps you will not PREMEDITATE your AO episodes?

Hey Markos, can you add more info to the time line? Specifically: what took place prior to Prisca's IB on Monday.

Thanks!

When you quit focussing on her behaviour and truly be accountable for yours. There is absolutely positvely no reason on this earth why, when you have the knowledge that you now have, that you should have an Angry Outburst like this... NONE WHATSOEVER. You control you and that was a choice with malice intent. That was not trying or practicing any type of loving Marriage principle at all..... And the cycle continues.....

That wasn't the case, here, though my wife might have thought it was.


That was the case. It appeared obvious to Prisca what needed to be done. It was not obvious to me. I wanted to talk about it. She judged me for wanting to talk about it. She specifically told me Tuesday I shouldn't have had to ask.


That's my plan for next time.


She usually doesn't let me know. She usually thinks I've made a decision and that she isn't welcome to suggest I do differently. It's always a danger for me to charge in doing something because she may come back upset later.

For example, I did do some helping with the baking Monday night. Turns out that wasn't what she wanted me to do. I was supposed to have known what she wanted me to do, and shouldn't have had to ask.


From about 7 to 7:30 I did sit and talk with her, and things were pleasant. About 7:30 we realized the appetizers we'd eaten were enough for dinner and decided together that I wouldn't need to cook dinner. Then I started asking about helping her and she quit answering. I spent most of the rest of the night with her, trying to do small things. About 9 or so I gave up asking about helping. By then it was apparent that she wasn't planning on taking a break at 8 for our scheduled time together.

Would've been ideal to me to stop at 8, spend our two hours together, and then spend 10-11 or 12 or so doing the baking.

In fact, I would've stayed up all night and done the baking for her.

I've been told that insisting people answer a question in a yes or no manner is a bullying lawyer technique and actually very disrespectful.

Not every question is a yes or no question.

Thanks for clarifying Markos--I am glad to know that you aren't lying to us.

Everyone has setbacks. I admitted on another thread that after I promixed not to have any AO's to my husband, I have slipped up several times.

Did I feel provoked--YOU BETCHA!!! In fact, I still look at those incidents and cringe, because it was so hard not get angry, and I chose the easier way.

But the bottom line is, it does not matter what my husband does or fails to do. It does not matter!!!

It is my job to be responsible for my own feelings and actions.

I do have a couple of suggestions for you, Markos:

1) Make time in your schedule to work out if you aren't already doing so. You need some place to release your frustrations, and could probably benefit from teh endorphins.

2) Don't keep trying to engage Prisca when she is not speaking to you... by doing so you are "rewarding" her bad behavior, AND building up your own frustration. My husband has a tendency to do what Prisca does when he's upset, and I find I just have to get busy doing my own thing and write off whatever plans we made.

Our partners are responsible for their emotions/feelings, and we have to stop doing the work of trying to "figure it out".

If she wants to not talk/not ask for help/not engage, then she's on her own. After helping with the kids, you should try and get out of the house... Get a cup of coffee, go read a book at a bookstore, whatever. Go for a walk. Go workout. Go for a drive and listen to music/talk radio. Work in teh garage. Work in the yard. Watch a program you like (as long as this doesn't drive you to distraction to have her so near, but not speaking--which is how I feel).

In short, do SOMETHING that will bring you peace.

3) Also, would like to recommend a book called "You don't have to take it anymore" by Stosny. Very good. Helpful techniques.

You have a lot of hurt/resentment and feelings of betrayal. I understand those feelings. Your wife makes bad choices when she is upset as well, and you are hurt by her choices. Still, it is YOUR job to manage your negative emotions and not just control them, but ELIMINATE them so that they don't get in the way.

You want to stop the cycle.

4) Someone recently posted how things often get much worse just before they get better. People start to hope, and when the inevietable slips occur, they are hurt/angry and things get ugly. At the point of recovery is the very point where some people give up, because the rise and fall of emotions can be too
overwhelming.

Don't be overwhelmed. Be patient!

Yes, she was setting a boundary.


Which you did not respect.

And I kept calling.


And here she was being O&H.


And you blew that one to he// markos. You think she's going to feel safe sharing O&H now?

Markos, my post was not about you trying to make Prisca do or not do anything. My post addressed your lack of care of her and your hypocrisy for expecting her to do it when you wont.

Please address that issue.

You're going into defensive mode trying to escape culpability for your action.

STOP!!!

OWN the fact that you just ABUSED your wife.

HUMBLY apologize to her.
HUMBLY apologize to your children.

There is no justification for the INTENTIONAL injuring of your spouse and children. And that is what you have just done.

Do you know the amount of terror a child feels when they see an adult lose control?

OWN that YOU did that to them. You have destroyed an element of their security, their trust in you.

Progress will start when YOU stop INTENTIONALLY hurting Prisca because she's not reacting the way you WANT, but rather reacting the way she must TO PROTECT HERSELF FROM YOU. You have created a vicious cycle: You abuse, she protects herself, you get upset and so you abuse more... you know what will stop the cycle? YOU NOT ABUSING HER!