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Anything else? Or was this a drive by?
BW(Me)aka Scotty:37 DSx2: 10,12 DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09 Plan B Dec18/09 Personal R in works Scotty's THING  Newly Betrayed click herePraying for walls and doors. Thanx MM “Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.” ? Maya Angelou PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION THANK YOU
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Latest.
HDe got exposed be time.
After she finished stomping aroun the house trying to pick a fight and telling me that my plan had failed and she was going the other way. Which makes no sence since she was alredy his, Hense why I fight.
She kept on the chrade for about 15 minutes Finally she sat down to watch a moving. I asked to sit next to her. "Its your couch" at this point im almost laughing its so funny. We sit through 5 minutes of 300 and she starts getting up and standing in the kitchen.
ME-"ready to head up to charlottE?"
WW- "not sure i even wanna be in there.
So i ge her into the car. Dammit she tried not too but she had tons of fun around ikea, and all over charlotte. I even got her to commit to let me help her with baking cakes next week for girls party.
Way back she was very quiet. didnt wanna respond. Deep in thougt jsut kept the convo lite. Only thing she said stupid to me was "Just remember your just fighting over me"
My responce" Im fighting for the women I love and our child together. Im a man that is handling his buisness. Hes the one scared now hes outted. If he feels guilty good for him. He desearves it."
Good night. Im going to meet the WW tomorow to go to church. Got her another hand made card a open hart necklace and earring set.
(ME) BS - 33YO (HER) WW - 32YO Married 7 years DD5 D-Day - 5/1/10 (PA) Exposure 5/7/10 Plan A 5/7/10 - Plan B or Recovery on 7-1-10 Its in her court ATM My thread
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Yeg You did great with exposing. Good for you. I waited too long in my case and trickeled out some along the way. Until I went all the way there were no good results. I know from your posts you said you were doing a lot of reading on the site. Please make sure you understand this and if you have any questions post them Way too many people go to PLAN A and it ends up being Plan Doormat. It goes way too long and that is not what the Plans are about. Read Carefully. Vets correct me if I am wrong but I believe for men Dr.Harley recommends approximately 6 months max for Plan A. What are Plan A and Plan B This is out of the NOTABLE POST THREAD and was put together by Pepperband. Thank You Pep. #1836781 - 03/05/07 08:35 PM Misapplication of plan A [Re: Pepperband]
Pepperband
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Loc: Shrek's Swamp Misapplication of Plan A ... by Distressed
I may be opening up a can of worms, but I read so many posts from people struggling with the implementation of Plan A that I thought I'd open up a philosophical discussion. Before expressing my opinions, I need to be clear that I myself did do Plan A for about 18 months in total. So when I'm critical, accept that I'm criticizing my own behavior in the hopes that others can learn. Here goes.
I am a great believer in the Harley methodology and it helped me work through a horrible situation. However, I am convinced that there is no greater misunderstanding and misapplication of techniques than in the betrayed's use of Plan A. FAR, FAR too many betrayed's seem to believe that if they stop love busting, go to great efforts to meet the wayward's needs (while the affair continues), and don't bring up OR talks or any issues, their spouses will eventually come back. While the spouses sometimes do come back during Plan A, it is my strong belief that their coming back is much more related to the natural death of their affairs than any action the betrayed is taking.
Plan A serves one narrowly defined purpose only. Its purpose is for the betrayed spouse to demonstrate for the wayward spouse the behavior he/she is capable of should the wayward ever decide to return to the marriage. That's it. It does not and cannot be used to: 1) win the spouse back from the OP, 2) recreate love from the wayward while the affair continues by meeting emotional needs, 3) unconditionally demonstrate love and self-sacrifice from the betrayed, or 4) create guilt within the wayward.
While the positive aspects of Plan A are useful, they come with a very high negative cost if it goes on too long. The backlash to the betrayed's self-esteem grows over time as disrespectful behavior from the wayward is not only tolerated, but often rewarded. The betrayed forgets what it's like to respect him/herself, and just accepts whatever crumbs the wayward offers. Worse still, the betrayed remains so engrossed in the effort to meet the emotional needs of the wayward, that they're not focusing on developing a separate life. This doesn't always happen, but it happens far more often than it should.
I believe the Harley's are frequently misunderstood about Plan A. Their intent is for a SHORT Plan A, just to demonstrate the changes. Normally, they recommend going to Plan B at separation or after just a few months of Plan A. Plan B is almost always necessary according to the Harley's. Their advice is clear, but many people do not apply it as advised. Plan A goes way too far.
Unfortunately, it's best to accept that once someone decides to leave, whether they choose to come back is completely out of the control of the betrayed. The primary influences on the wayward's behavior are some combination of the state of the affair and the character of the wayward, not the actions of the betrayed. That's why Harley says go to Plan B and stay there. It's basically designed to allow a maximum waiting period for the affair to end. _________________________
~ Pain is a given, misery is optional ~ Also, very soon a No Contact letter that you approve of will need to be written and mailefd by you to the OM. There are a lot of good examples here when that time comes. Just post asking for one and we will find some that should work. I don't mean to bog you down with info but from what I am told Recovery is extremly hard. Taking these steps will help the two of you along the way should she decide to really commit to the M again. Another good post for For referance. This is by Mark 1052. Thank you Mark. Post about Newbies By Mark 1952 Hope this helps Nesre
M 29 yrs
DS 28 DD 18
Me 53 FWH FBS
MTA signed 5/11/2011
D final 5/16/2011
Free.... and going wherever the big guy wants me to go......
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Also, very soon a No Contact letter that you approve of will need to be written and mailefd by you to the OM. There are a lot of good examples here when that time comes. Just post asking for one and we will find some that should work. WW brought up the NC. Said she would HAVE to talk to him at least 1 more time. I told her there were better ways than doing it over the phone or in person. I mentioned a letter. Of course she was very hurt by this. I think it was the thought of not being able to give a formal goodbye. At that point I just backed off and changed the subject of conversation to something lively. Thanks for linking that clarification. I have probably been implementing it wrong. I will town down the deep conversations even more and just focus on meeting needs.
(ME) BS - 33YO (HER) WW - 32YO Married 7 years DD5 D-Day - 5/1/10 (PA) Exposure 5/7/10 Plan A 5/7/10 - Plan B or Recovery on 7-1-10 Its in her court ATM My thread
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No changing the subject on NC. You see ALL WS try the, "I just need one more time." It leads to, "Just one last time." If it is done face to face, it is so they can get one more time to "knock boots." If they do it over the phone, they can make it sound like it isn't their idea. If you aren't in on the convo, they will make plans on NEW ways to stay in contact. NO NEGOTIATIONS ON THIS. DrH recommends a NC LETTER. That is written by HER and okay'd by YOU and SENT by YOU. There are some examples on here that you can get her to copy. When she does write that letter, put the rough draft up here for others to comment on it. You can do this.
BW(Me)aka Scotty:37 DSx2: 10,12 DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09 Plan B Dec18/09 Personal R in works Scotty's THING Newly Betrayed click herePraying for walls and doors. Thanx MM “Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.” ? Maya Angelou PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION THANK YOU
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hi there, yeg
I just wanted to add my support for you and your fight to save your marriage.
You are a good man and if you follow the plan that the good people on this site give you about exposure and meeting her needs you will come out of this in a good place.
Even though she will be mad, she will also notice you are fighting for her and your family, she is going to feel important to you and that's probably what she has been missing.....
Be strong even when it feels like you are going backwards, it feels like that for a while at first. She will be mad, but grateful later in the process...
It doesn't happen quickly, they say about 6 months to get her fog of the affair to lift and think like a normal person again. I found it wasn't my husband during that time it was like he was possessed by some selfish person I didn't know....
He found his way back and she will too.......
Hang in there, support is here and it will give you the strength to go through this process.
BW 56
WH 57
Married 25 years, live together for 2, dated 2 years before that.....
DS 23, DS 25
D-Day Nov 23/09
NC Mar 1/10
Working on Recovery
Grateful for finding Marriage Builders
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Mothers day report
Spent the day with the wife and her parets. Went to church and afterwards cooked dinner for her with her father. WW was in a mopey mood all day. Just kinda drug around and staring at walls and stuff. I would ask her questions and try to spark conversation. She just gave me one word answers to everything
Overall a very draining day. Im still staying at night with my parents and she basically said it was time to go home at 9 pm. Told me I needed to get some sleep before work tommorow.
I made her a handmade card with caligraphy I picked up off the internet and gave her a open heart necklace and earrings shes wanted for a while. She just hugged on the baby and loved on her. Barelly said anything to me. Im jelious of my own daughter when i see WW smile at her and hug her and hold her.
Im plan A and i know im just there to meet her needs. What do I do when she pushes me away because im being too smothering? I know I cant believe her. Still giving me the "I need time to think" garbage.
She did watch a little of a movie with me before she asked me to leave for the night. I think that was herway of tossing me a crumb.
Should i be asking her everyday if she has talked to the OM? That seems like a LB. I want to keep them backpedaling but i dont wanna push too hard.
Is there any advice yall can give me to keeping my energy level up? Bad fog days like today are hard to get through. Its just really hard to just smaile and take her standoffish nature.
I think I may have to go to letter format. That may get me an easier way to tell her how I feel about her without being overbearing.
I just pray to God every night for strength. I feel like im running on fumes and im so desperate for a kind word from her.
(ME) BS - 33YO (HER) WW - 32YO Married 7 years DD5 D-Day - 5/1/10 (PA) Exposure 5/7/10 Plan A 5/7/10 - Plan B or Recovery on 7-1-10 Its in her court ATM My thread
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I would back off a little bit on telling her how YOU feel. Quite frankly, she doesn't care at the moment. It is all about HER and her needs. Use that to play into it.
Stay away from relationship talk and remember, NO EXPECTATIONS. This is going to take a lot of time. It is hard and draining. Re-read the Plan A carrot and stick again. Meet her needs that she will allow you to, and don't push too much. It may appear overbearing and 'smothering'. Stay cool and take care of yourself too.
-SOL
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Good news though is the OM should be gettting Exposure ambush by his supervisor early tommorow. I pray that will end the affiar. She has been feeling heat pretty hard. Time for the OM to get a taste.
Even if this does cut the head off she will probably be moping pretty much for another week before she agrees to NC.
All i am doing is telling her I love her and that she is special to me. Im just trying to spend the time with her I should have been for years. all WW says is you cant make it up in 1 night. Meanwhile im pulling my hair out thinking "YOU WOULDNT YET ME!! YOU WERE TOO BUSY GETTING IT FROM OM!!!!"
Its very frustrating.
(ME) BS - 33YO (HER) WW - 32YO Married 7 years DD5 D-Day - 5/1/10 (PA) Exposure 5/7/10 Plan A 5/7/10 - Plan B or Recovery on 7-1-10 Its in her court ATM My thread
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I would back off a little bit on telling her how YOU feel. Quite frankly, she doesn't care at the moment. It is all about HER and her needs. Use that to play into it. Very true. Barelly looked at me when I talked. I know this last a longtime. Its just hard to keep up the energy for it.
(ME) BS - 33YO (HER) WW - 32YO Married 7 years DD5 D-Day - 5/1/10 (PA) Exposure 5/7/10 Plan A 5/7/10 - Plan B or Recovery on 7-1-10 Its in her court ATM My thread
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Okay, for now, STOP TELLING HER YOU LOVE HER AND HOW SPECIAL SHE IS.
Ummmmmm, one thing though, I forget, why aren't you living in YOUR home? That needs to be corrected.
BW(Me)aka Scotty:37 DSx2: 10,12 DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09 Plan B Dec18/09 Personal R in works Scotty's THING Newly Betrayed click herePraying for walls and doors. Thanx MM “Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.” ? Maya Angelou PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION THANK YOU
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She will probably be 'mopey' for much longer than a week. I think it usually lasts around 3 weeks AFTER no contact is established. Be patient, and remain consistent. She needs to see you consistently meeting her needs, or at least showing the ability to meet her needs without smothering her. It is a very fine line, but as time goes by you will get the hang of it. I've been doing it a while myself and getting better day by day.
Scotty is right. You need to move back home. Don't make a big deal about it, just grab your stuff and go back home.
-SOL
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Im plan A and i know im just there to meet her needs. What do I do when she pushes me away because im being too smothering? I know I cant believe her. Still giving me the "I need time to think" garbage. Don't be too clingy. Don't try to snuggle up. Just meet the needs she'll allow you to meet and back off the ones she doesn't want you to. At the first sign of resistance back off, and just meet the needs she'll allow you to meet. Try again later. Rinse, lather, repeat. It's a complicated dance, but with practice you can learn to master it. Make yourself available, but not too available. Makes plans and hang out with your friends to let her know you are still living your life and not just hovering over her all the time. Should i be asking her everyday if she has talked to the OM? That seems like a LB. I want to keep them backpedaling but i dont wanna push too hard. No, you snoop and verify yourself. OM will soon be given a NC order, so if your snooping uncovers a breach of NC, you report OM to his CoC. Problem solved. Whenever there is contact, you need to respond with consequences. Since the consequences will be greater on OM's side, you deal with it from that angle. Is there any advice yall can give me to keeping my energy level up? Bad fog days like today are hard to get through. Its just really hard to just smaile and take her standoffish nature. Suck it up. You know your goal, and hopefully with our feedback you understand that things aren't going to be very good for the next six months, so you expect that and chalk it up to the pain that's necessary for the gain. I think I may have to go to letter format. That may get me an easier way to tell her how I feel about her without being overbearing. She knows how you feel. There is no need for love letters right now. If anything, I would send positive notes and emails thanking her for a wonderful dinner and the like. I just pray to God every night for strength. I feel like im running on fumes and im so desperate for a kind word from her. You better fuel up because you have a LONG way to go. Getting NC w/ OM is the first step. The next step is getting with your lawyer and devising a way to get you back in the house. To this point, it seems to me that your lawyer has been awful thus far. She should have realize that maybe you weren't in the best frame of mind after just finding out, and that maybe you didn't know what you wanted. Sure, moving out will ensure your WW won't get alimony. That's a good plan if that's what is most important to you. However, she just handed over a slam dunk custody case to your WW that would relegate you to a one day a week and every other weekend dad. You march into your lawyer's office tomorrow and tell her that you want to move back into your house because that is where you need to be to plan A your WS and your daughter means more to you that any potential alimony. If you don't want to lose that, just don't sleep with her until she is committed to the relationship again (and I'm betting that you wouldn't get offered right now anyway). Ask your lawyer for the best way to accomplish your goal.
Jim BS - 32 (me) FWW - 33 Married 8/31/03 No kids (but 3 cats) D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA) NC agreed to - 11/8/06 NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07 Status - In Recovery Jim's Story
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Okay, for now, STOP TELLING HER YOU LOVE HER AND HOW SPECIAL SHE IS. I'll do that. Definatly doesnt seem to be helping any anyway. Ummmmmm, one thing though, I forget, why aren't you living in YOUR home? That needs to be corrected. Im trying to develop a re-entry strategy. Problem was we have been sleeping in seperate beds for months. When I go back I dont wanna do that again. She also is telling me she needs space to make her decision. In the end her decision of NC is HER decision. I can't force her to do it. If she isnt committed to NC, radical honesty, joint agreement and transparancy in the relationship it wont work. No, you snoop and verify yourself. OM will soon be given a NC order, so if your snooping uncovers a breach of NC, you report OM to his CoC. Got webwatcher on order. She thinks her computer is safe so I can at least filter it that way. I think attacking the affair from the OM angle will minimize negative feelings with my WW. You better fuel up because you have a LONG way to go. Getting NC w/ OM is the first step. I know. Its one reason I post here is so I can vent and get support. I couldnt manage doing this alone. You better fuel up because you have a LONG way to go. Getting NC w/ OM is the first step. I wasn't the best client either. I was a basket case.
(ME) BS - 33YO (HER) WW - 32YO Married 7 years DD5 D-Day - 5/1/10 (PA) Exposure 5/7/10 Plan A 5/7/10 - Plan B or Recovery on 7-1-10 Its in her court ATM My thread
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She also is telling me she needs space to make her decision. The only reason she needs space it to continue her affair. Don't smother her, but don't feel the need to give her space to help make her decision. She's just trying to buy herself more time. In the end her decision of NC is HER decision. I can't force her to do it. If she isnt committed to NC, radical honesty, joint agreement and transparancy in the relationship it wont work. Again, you are not understanding things properly. Yes, NC is her decision, but you need to attach negative consequences for her making contact so that in the end, choosing NC is the easier path. Waywards ALWAYS take the easy way out, so make it hard to continue contact. Every bit of contact should be re-exposed to her family and OM's CoC. I would first sit down with her family and tell them your definite intentions of saving the marriage. Also, when you are back in your house, ENFORCE MARITAL BOUNDARIES. She is an addict who can't control herself. Don't let her contact OM in YOUR HOUSE. Block his email and phone number. I put a strict lockdown on contact w/ OM. She knew I wasn't going to allow it anymore. I deleted all OM's contact info from her phone and email and got rid of old cell phone bills with his number on it (She pretty much only called him and she didn't have his number memorized, so it took her probably a week to find his number again). Don't allow contact in your house. If she wants to contact OM, she can go stay with HER parents. You aren't leaving. She isn't going to commit to NC and radical honesty, transparency, and POJA UNTIL she's already gotten through withdrawal. You are putting the cart before the horse. Get NC established, get her through withdrawal, keep meeting the needs she allows you to meet while avoiding LBs, and THEN get her on board with the MB stuff. You are at the very minimum 2-3 months away from that. Focus on today.
Jim BS - 32 (me) FWW - 33 Married 8/31/03 No kids (but 3 cats) D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA) NC agreed to - 11/8/06 NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07 Status - In Recovery Jim's Story
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She isn't going to commit to NC and radical honesty, transparency, and POJA UNTIL she's already gotten through withdrawal. You are putting the cart before the horse. Get NC established, get her through withdrawal, keep meeting the needs she allows you to meet while avoiding LBs, and THEN get her on board with the MB stuff. You are at the very minimum 2-3 months away from that. Focus on today. See thats one thing I didnt know. I thought that the purpose of Plan A was to solely show my WW that I'm willing to meet needs. Im monitoring all the phone access that I can. Ive got a Webwatcher OTW. Right now she is recieving alot of pressure from friends, family and myself to cut off the A. last time I can tell she contacted him was on 5/4/10. Every bit of contact should be re-exposed to her family and OM's CoC i will do that. So far I havent CAUGHT any. Of course Im limited to what I can do. If I catch her I will re expose to family and OM COC. She isn't going to commit to NC and radical honesty, transparency, and POJA UNTIL she's already gotten through withdrawal. I guess I got the order messed up there. I KNOW recovery cant begin until the A ends. For that NC has to be established. I thought that when she agreed to NC that she had to agree for POJA, transparancy and honesty at the same time. I understand it may be hollow. I think I may be just getting conflicting advice from my therapist. He insisted that when she went NC that I needed to insist on POJA etc at the same time. So do I wait for POJA and stuff till withdrawals end? What do I do when she goes NC? I guess im just kinda lost. Ill post my Current plan atm and yall can comment on it. Exposure - achieved Keep pressure on her and get to agree to NC - In progress. Help through withdrawal. (not sure how to identify when this is over) Get her to agree to POJA, Rad Honesty and transparancy Im not trying to deviate from the MB system. Its the closest thing I have to a handbook. I just put myself at a disadvantage from the start by moving out and Im trying to recover.
(ME) BS - 33YO (HER) WW - 32YO Married 7 years DD5 D-Day - 5/1/10 (PA) Exposure 5/7/10 Plan A 5/7/10 - Plan B or Recovery on 7-1-10 Its in her court ATM My thread
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BTW Jim I started reading your story as well.
The advice from Foreverhers (the poker analogy) and the dos and dont that Marshmallow provided helped alot.
I try to save stuff like that I see so I can refer to it often. It provides me with inspiration and helps me keep on track.
I KNOW ive been guilty of saying "I love you" too much since Dday. Ive also been too preachy saying "look at how ive changed".
Im toning it down and getting back into the house ASAP. It may be just back into the spare Bedroom but thats at least back in the house.
(ME) BS - 33YO (HER) WW - 32YO Married 7 years DD5 D-Day - 5/1/10 (PA) Exposure 5/7/10 Plan A 5/7/10 - Plan B or Recovery on 7-1-10 Its in her court ATM My thread
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The purpose of plan A is to put yourself in the best possible light to show your WW what you will be like in the future when/if she recommits to the marriage. Your goal is to use the carrot and the stick. The carrot is to try and meet her ENs that she will allow you to meet with no expectations that she will meet yours and to avoid all lovebusting behavior other than exposure. The stick is to expose your WW to all the consequences of her actions. This includes mostly exposure but also things like boundary enforcement (i.e. you aren't allowed to contact OM in our home, I'm not footing the bill for you to run around on me, etc.).
She's not going to commit to anything until NC and she gets through withdrawal and you have made enough love bank deposits to interest her in the relationship again (you can't make many love bank deposits when the affair is ongoing). Withdrawal happens in about 3 phases. The first phase is the first 2-3 weeks, and the WS acts like their life is going to end, they hate you for ruining the relationship with their soulmate, they tell you this doesn't mean we're getting back together, and they pine for their affair partner constantly. The second phase goes until about the 2-2.5 month phase. They are functional again, but they think about the OM from time to time, if the OM calls they will jump right back into the A, they are questioning whether or not they should get back with you if the OP is out of the picture, they don't work on the relationship, but they stop saying they hate you or want a D all the time. Then the 3rd phase last until about the six month phase. They'll do some work on the relationship, they start questioning their relationship with their affair partner and start to see the other person for what they truly are, but if the other person makes contact, there is a decent chance they will jump ship again, but there isn't much of a desire to contact the other person anymore, etc. After six months, the fog should be over, unless the affair was going on extremely hot and heavy for more than several years. Your situation might take longer than 6 months, but since there was distance involved, it might not be as bad as if they saw each other on a weekly basis.
Once you are at about the 3 month stage of NC and your WW is showing signs of working on the relationship again, that is when I would start introducing the MB concepts.
Jim BS - 32 (me) FWW - 33 Married 8/31/03 No kids (but 3 cats) D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA) NC agreed to - 11/8/06 NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07 Status - In Recovery Jim's Story
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UPDATE
First and foremost
IM BACK IN THE HOUSE
I told her I was OMW home and id bring home the milk she wanted. When I got home she was finishing up dinner. I asked her what was for dinner and complimented her.
Then I told her I was moving back in the house. She freaked out and said no your not. I told her I thought it was best for my marriage... then I asked her what kind of chicken it was.
She calmed down for a bit and jumped on the computer while I was getting the 4YO ready for bed.
Afterwards I asked her if she wanted to watch ou shows together. SHe asked me when I was going home to my moms and I told her I wasnt.
At that point she said again she wasnt ready and I told her I was there to stay.
Then she tried to grab the 4yo and leave but after i called her bluff she let the 4YO stay in bed and left herself. Said she was going to her parents to stay. At that point I said have a good night and she left.
I warned her dad the hornet's nest was on its way over and he said he would do what he could to fix it. Im sure she will slip in about 11ish after Im in bed for the night. She already said she was spending the night there with the 4YO tommorow so its not really an issue.
Honestly Im sad I caused a LB in not respecting her feelings but it was neccessary. you cant watch your flock for wolves when your not in the field.
I also took the night away to install webwatcher. So now i can cut off that avenue of contact. It definatly is a PITA to set up but looks like its rolling now.
She definatly pissed as crap at me but its not like she has many options at this point. the OM is effectively out of the picture with the COC on his butt.
Im hopeing she will reluctantly "give me another chance" soon. I'll have my head held high when she chooses too.
(ME) BS - 33YO (HER) WW - 32YO Married 7 years DD5 D-Day - 5/1/10 (PA) Exposure 5/7/10 Plan A 5/7/10 - Plan B or Recovery on 7-1-10 Its in her court ATM My thread
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Joined: Jun 2008
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Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,686 |
It was not a LB to move back in if that's what you were talking about.
You are taking charge and when she is defogged she will thank you.
One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger
I will not spend my life this way.
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