I agree. He is either really uncaring about what he has done to you, or he is still involved with OW.

Clearly he's thick with fog and I agree with the others that he is likely still in his A. That's why he is gaslighting you and I KNOW how that feels. (((feelinghurt))))

If I were you, I would put my best Plan A smile on, stop trying to share MB stuff with him, and stop asking about the A and OW...and I would start snooping like a bloodhound like ML said earlier.

I would do these things, like, today:
~install a VAR in the car
~start investigating the cell phone records. Did you see my questions earlier about whose name the phone is in and what service you use? Can you check the records online?

using those two methods alone you may be able to find out exactly what is going on and who OW is in a pretty short time.

These aren't going to be easy things to do. There are some BSs who ignore some of the advice the get here and keep trying to "convince" or "talk" their WH out of their waywardly behavior. I would advise you against doing that ~ it never works out and will just push your H further the other way.

And whatever you do, do not tell your WH about this site. It is your secret weapon for now. Okay?

Welcome to MB, believe it or not, you've stumbled on the BEST place to help you give your marriage the BEST shot at recovery.

(((Hugs))))

Our cell phones are through verizon, but they are through his dad (their business-- the 3 of us are on a plan) so I really don't have access to the bill.

I am seeing there is a fine line between getting answers trying to educate him on why/how I am feeling, etc and love busters. I think for now, I need to look at Plan A closer and take some positive action.

I can't that everyone enough for all of their insight. You people are great!

There is a huge difference between NC and Contact.

You ALWAYS verify there is NC. You never just assume your WS is telling you the truth when they say the A is over.

If there is any red flag at all, you snoop like a bloodhound; otherwise, if there is ongoing contact, you are spinning your wheels with "talk".

I will post some Plan A info for you.

Carrot & Stick of Plan A

Also:
Mr. W's do's and don'ts of Plan A:

Does his dad know about the A? Can you quietly discuss this with him and ask for access to the phone records?

His dad doesn't know. He JUST got out of the hospital from having a double lung transplant -- I wouldn't dare tell him with his state of health. However, his mom knows. I will try talking to her about the phone.

PLAN A -- going into action ASAP !!!

feelinghurt...

PLEASE LISTEN VERY CAREFULLY...your H is still in his A. I cannot emphasize this enough...HE IS STILL HAVING AN AFFAIR.
I was in a False Recovery (FR) for 10 months, I know what a WH still in an A looks and sounds like and your H is one of them.

I suggest you hire a P.I. Just like my FWH, your H has gotten very good at taking his A further underground. It will be hard for you to find proof of his ongoing A but a P.I. can do it for you.

You cannot begin to recovery until the A is over and you expose it which (which 95% of the time ends the A). There is NO WAY he went NC with her if it's been going on for over a year. They never end this easily.

This is hard for me to hear. I have been SO wanting to believe that the A is over. In the back of my mind, I have been fearing it is still going on. I have no solid "proof" that it is over. Other than he called her in front of me to tell her it was over. I HAVE to get that detailed phone bill. Maybe that will help.

I have a hard time believing that OW would walk away so easily too. Afterall, OW told me they loved each other. So overnight, they aren't in love anymore and have NC??? Sadly, I think you are right. I better get my snooping gear in order. I truly don't think I can go through this again. I think a false recovery would be almost worse than finding out the first time .

Thanks for your honesty, no matter how hard it is to hear.

It is imperative that you get that bill. Once you see what is on it, please report back here before confronting your WH. You are fighting a battle and you need to be very strategic. You've got some awesome posters already helping you so take advantage of it, OK? Again, DO NOT confront your H yet. Hang in there!

Ok, I'm back for help. First of all, my SIL looked at the bill for me. NC should have been established on 4/13 and WH told me OW has never contacted him since. SIL said that the bill only showed to 4/22 and there was a call on 4/18. So, already a LIE! I am anxiously awaiting the next bill to see if there have been more. If there are, what is my next step? I thought about giving him another chance to fess up and if he still lies, the gloves are coming off. I have been VERY nice about this whole thing. If I find he's still lying ... look out. What is the next step ?? -- so I am ready ...

By the way, I told him from the beginning of this whole mess that I would give him ONE more chance and if I caught him lying, that was it, no questions asked. OVER -- kids' and my bags were packed.

Anyway ... let me tell you another little thing that transpired this weekend. I needed that phone bill, so I called SIL who is in from out of town to see if she could help me get it. I had to give her OW's phone # so she could investigate. Well, she calls OW! (NOT what I had intended, but she said she couldn't help herself). OW immediately says some explatives and hangs up on her. OW then texts me regarding this call which I have no clue about. OW also calls WH telling screaming at him about the call. Then she leaves him a voicemail stating that if she gets another call from me or SIL, she is pressing charges against me (again, harsh explatives used). She definately has NO grounds, but not something I need to deal with right now.

So now I am on the chopping block because WH is blown away that SIL knows all of this. I had to explain to WH that SIL knew about his A from the beginning and why I gave OW's number to her. WOW. He took it pretty good - considering.

I have been sick ALL weekend. I feel like I did almost 2 months ago when I first found out. I feel like I have regressed in this recovery (partially because of the 4/18 call on the bill). I am bracing myself for the next bill. I can't think straight. I took 3 wrong turns today going places withing 3 miles from our house. I have to pull myself together if I am going to win this battle!

Also, SIL begged me to let MIL tell FIL. She says that MIL is heartbroken over this and needs to talk to her husband. I told her it was up to MIL, I don't want to jeopardize FIL's health in anyway.

SOrry this got lengthy, but a lot has gone on in a few days. Advice for how to handle the upcoming phone bill (If there are more calls on it)?

WH shouldn't be surprised that SIL knows because EVERYONE should know! You haven't exposed? That's your next step, actually that should've been a few steps ago...

((feeling hurt))) FR is very very painful and a huge setback. That is the bad news.

The good news is you haven't even used the best tool available to kill (or set in motion the death of) an A. EXPOSURE.

Exposure puts a new perspective on the A for the wayward spouse. He will see the A through the eyes of his family and friends, the hurt and the disappointment, and it will help to kill the excitement of the A...because affairs thrive on secrecy.

If I can tell you a personal story, I came here about 3 yrs ago when my H was having an EA. Then last year, my younger sister found out her H was having a full blown PA. He was so foggy and alien-like.

I pushed her to post here and to follow the advice she had gotten to a "T" (Melody helped her tremendously ~ if she helps you, LISTEN to her!!). She did a nuclear exposure, including to their daughter, family & friends and to OW's Facebook friends and family and it killed the A cold. Yes, her WH was angry but w/n a couple weeks he had cooled off and started to defog. They are in R now and he is so thankful that she fought for their marriage and "followed the MB plans so well".

So we need you to hang tight a little longer and get your exposure ducks lined in a row. We need to get OW's name. Do you even know her first name? She is a SIL to your H's friend? Do you know this H's name? Do you think you could somehow get the name from this friend? Is it possible your H has written her any emails or is FB friends w/her? Can you follow your H or put GPS in his car? (this is how my sister found out who OW was)

You can do this. You will make it. Hang in there.

The most important thing you should know about being here is we care for you in the absence of your H caring for you.

Follow the advice here and it will protect you from this awful thing you are feeling now.

Take a look at Mels rank in posts and time here. She know what of she speaks.

Read and post in your thread whenever you need to let off steam or ask questions. We will get back to you ASAP.

Prayers

Good for your SIL! Why haven't you exposed this yourself??? Everyone should know!

All of this snooping around makes me feel like I am the one in the wrong. Why? Why do I feel bad about telling anyone? Why do I feel like I am wrong for looking at his phone daily or tearing apart my house every other day looking for some scrap of evidence?

I think am embarrassed to tell any of my friends. I am ashamed this has happened to me. I know it's not my fault and I did nothing to deserve this, but I am ashamed this is happening in my marriage.

We all feel like its our fault when this happens. Its part of that value we used to have in ourselves and the trust that we had when we thought we were trusted.

Then part of us is removed and the internal clothes we had on that protected our emotions are stripped away and we feel alone and ashamed.

Believe me many ppl here will tell you that is what happens and you start to blame yourself. Just about every person that gets counselled to expose and bring the affiar out in the light or to snoop and get evidence has to be told over and over
1. Its not thier fault
2.Protect themselves
3 Take no prisoners and have no mercy on the Wayward spouses activity and especially.. don't believe them when they are in an affair. The chemicals that are driving thier brain make them as reliable as any addict. Your spouse is as sick as any addict is . Tough love to get him straight

Please read around the site and it will all make sense to you in time and you will thank God for this place.

Get proof

Read and get advice on what and how to expose here is a great link to help you get started with tons of topics for newcomers

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2375650&page=1

You can do this.. You will heal and possibly heal your marriage. Trust me your worth it and you have nothing to be ashamed of.

FH, everyone here is giving you the best advise possible, the only thing I need to give you right now is that you need to be on here at least 3 or 4 times a day! We could have helped with that situation with the phone bill tremendously

Keep digging! If he is still in the A (which I strongly believe he is) then EXPOSE EXPOSE EXPOSE!

I understand the list of people to expose the A to, but I really don't know who else to expose to. I have exposed to MIL and SIL. Because of FIL's health, I am going to let MIL tell him.

OW is divorced. OW's mom, sister and sister's husband (who was WH's friend) all were supportive of the A. They would go out with OW's sis and her husband. Also, OW's mom called WH to meet with him to get the "secret phone" back and she expressed how sad OW was, etc. Oh, BOO HOO !!!! Hey, she knew what she was getting herself into --- I didn't!!

Most of WH's friends are fishing or hunting buddies that I really don't know that well. He only has one other friend that I might feel able to expose to, but he probably already knows. He and his wife have been acting a little strange toward me.

I don't know if I can tell my family. They would never be supportive of my trying to save this marriage. And if they were, they would always hold this against him, which I think, would make it hard for us as a couple. Maybe my brother and his fiance.

I am still awaiting the next phone bill from SIL. Once I see what is on it, I will definately be back looking for more help.

Did you ever just think to yourself ... "How can this be happening to ME? This can't possibly be MY life!" This is something that goes through my head almost daily.