No I truely did forget about it. I have a horrible memory and forget thisng about 10 min after I think them most of the time. Last night we had girl scouts for my DD and then went to dinner with friends then I cam back and got into doing a package for the navy and it took me till about midnight to get it together and correct and by then she was asleep and I was exhausted as she has been too and just passed out after I got it all done. I see what you are getting at but there really was a lot going on last night that it had slipped my mind before I could remember it to do it. Sorry.

Naveguy, look at your justifications for not doing this critical step in your healing:

1. I have a horrible memory.
2. DD had GS.
3. We had to eat.
4. I had to do a package for the navy.
5. She fell asleep.
6. I was exhausted.
7. It slipped my mind.

And your coup de grace: "Sorry."

You don't need to be sorry - no one here has been inconvenienced because you didn't do the EN questionnaire. But look at your justifications. Do you do this with other important things in your life? Memory is an interesting thing: if your memory was terrible, you would forget your name. Or that DD has GS. Or the dinner. Or you would have forgotten to do that package. But the only thing that was 'forgotten' was the ENQ. Think about that. Look at your priorities.

I know what you are getting at and yes I did forget about the package, it is do today, and I have forgotten about her GS and eating too. I know I need to stop making excuses and just do it. I get that. The sorry was for not putting this as the priority. And now I am saying sorry for making the excuses.

You remember the truly important things, remember that. If you have 'forgotten" something it is because it was not important to you or you are resisting it for other reasons.

Part of being honest with someone is being honest with yourself. You make excuses even to yourself, and your W and YOU are too important to do that to.

When I would point out to my H how he was making excuses I saw him get really ashamed and say sorry, and make excuses. Which seemed to make things worse...he was already beating himself up about "forgetting" or procastinating, and then disappointing me too...

And the person you are disappointing, is yourself...

You are making so many excuses...lies...to yourself. And you deserve more. You are worth more than this.

These excuses and beating yourself up just put you in a shame spiral, and keep you feeling like a victim, like the world is happening to you and you have few choices...

But EVERYTHING you do, you have made a choice about what to do.

You DO what is important to you. Your family knows this. And although you say they are important, if you don't put them first, then you are showing them they really aren't important to you.

Look at what you DO in your life..really look...and you will get a hint at what is truly important to you.

You really need to make the EN questionnaire a priority. I've read some of your BW's posts and all of yours. I have to say-you sound like I once did.

My FBH and I had a destructive pattern-He would ask me to do something, I would agree so not to make him upset. When I didn't or couldn't get it done, he would yell at me or scold me and I would feel terrible and agree to change, and it would start all over again.

You are going to have to break the cycle of behavior that has brought you here. I had to and I will be the first to admit that it is difficult and I don't always get it right. But I'm working on it.

Again, make it a priority.

I am, I have printed it out and have it ready for her when she gets home.

Pete, how did you end up breaking it?

naveguy and peterja - you are talking about passive-aggressive behaviour. It is extremely cruel, extremely immature, and extremely destructive. You can drive somebody stark screaming crazy by using it as a weapon against them.

Here is a link to an extensive MB thread on passive-aggressive behaviour. Virtually all active WS are passive-aggressive towards the BS while actively cheating, but some WS become real, real good at it and employ it as their weapon of choice.

The bottom line: Those who use P/A behaviour are heavily invested in remaining victims. The P/A stuff drives their spouse crazy and they get to remain a victim of their mean crazy spouse. It's a horrible vicious circle and it WILL destroy every relationship you have.

I hope you both (naveguy and peterja) start reading this thread right now so you can see where P/A behaviour will take you.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=622389&page=1

Mulan, wow that hits the nail on the head with me. I never even thought that I was that way until now. After reading the traits I do the majority of them. So how do I stop is the question, or did I miss that in the thread somewhere, cause it was a pretty long one lol. Anyway I really want to stop doing that to her, it is not fair to her at all. I wish I would have seen this a long time ago so I didn't end up here. Thanks for that link.

naveguy, you stop P/A behaviour by using 100% Radical Honesty with your partner at all times.

If she asks you to take out the trash, but you're in the middle of watching your favorite TV show, you do NOT say, "Sure, honey," and then an hour later you are still watching TV and she's angry because she feels ignored and P/A'd again.

No. You use Radical Honesty to TELL her: "My favorite show's on right now and I really don't want to miss it."

Then you immediately use POJA (Policy of Joint Agreement) to say something like, "How do you feel about my taking out the trash once the show is over in one hour?"

If she happily agrees, then it's all good. (And then you make bloody sure you DO take the trash out as soon as the TV show is over, so that you have indeed kept your word.)

If she really wants the trash to go out NOW, again, you use POJA. "Honey, if you take it out or get one of the kids to do it, I will (wash the dishes) or (whatever). Would that work for you?"

The bottom line is: You are HONEST about what you really want. You NEVER EVER EVER just tell somebody what you think they want to hear in order to get them off your back. You are HONEST and you use RH and POJA to work out anything that comes up with your spouse, whether large or small.

The concepts of RH and POJA are extensively discussed in the Basic Concepts links at the top and bottom of every page on this site, and there are many here who will gladly talk them over with you and provide many examples.

Avoiding conflict only leads to more conflict. P/A behaviour is the worst sort of conflict avoidance. There are much, much better ways of doing things and all those here will be happy to help you learn them.

Thank you.

So now I have to figure out why I still feel like I have to hold back with her. I don't want to but am sill doing it. I haven't done anything as stupid as my post the other day, but trying to figure out why I did do that. I want to know why I was able to do that with complete strangers and not be able to do it with her. I always say it's because I care about what she thinks and don't care what others think, but the more I say that the more it sounds stupid to me. Can anyone out there have a clue as to why? I have been pondering the P/A behaviour being part of the cause , just not sure how it applies if it does. Any adivce agai is grately appreciated.

Right now you don't have time to find out why you cant open up to your wife. But why not try something new?

Every single time you feel like opening up to us, or opening up to some strange woman, or to another person other than your wife, STOP YOURSELF.

When you STOP from opening up to others, GO TO YOUR WIFE IMMEDIATELY, or CALL HER ON THE CELL. Then, open up to her.

In other words, TELL YOUR WIFE EVERYTHING YOU WOULD NORMALLY TELL OTHER PEOPLE. TELL HER EVERYTHING PERIOD.

BLAB TO HER 24/7 IF YOU WANT TO.

STOP YOURSELF FROM TELLING ANYONE ELSE ANYTHING.

That is what I am going t do, but I don't always want to go tell someone else things and I have to get my brain to stop thinking in the manner of what I have been thinking in about not telling her things. Also the main problem is when I do finally want to tell her something it is at the wrong time, meaning she is at work. She has a very high stress job and is very busy and I don't want to add anything to her already bad day of work. She is scared of losing her job as it is and she is behind on some of her work because she had to go home for her dad. By the time we get home I have talked myself into not telling her. So in theory that sounds awsome and I am going to do it, but in reality it is hard. Any suggestions how to avoid that would be great. I know it sounds like an excuse, but I really don't want to stress her out any more then she is at work.

If you want to tell her something but she is busy, quickly write it all out in a letter. Then, give it to her when she gets home.

Passive/aggressive people constantly accuse others of being "controlling" - especially their spouses, parents, bosses, anyone with whom they are close - but in reality, P/A's are some of the most controlling people on the face of the planet.

Why? So they can keep all the power in the relationship.

And what is the easiest and best way to control someone and keep all the power for yourself?

By controlling the truth.

And how do you control the truth?

By flat-out lying, of course, and with deception and manipulation - but P/As usually prefer the (very passive) approach of simply Not Telling, also known as Lying By Omission.

If you keep someone in the dark about things that affect them, you have gained tremendous power and control over that person. You call all the shots and you can yank their strings any time you want to, because YOU know what's really going on and they don't.

Ha, ha.

Power trip, anyone?

I agree with Mulan. Most mature people dont need the approval of anyone that badly that they would withhold information from thier spouse and tell it to others.

Start trying to be honest with her for one solid week and see how it goes. And quit making excuses.

I like the idea about writing it down when I can't talk to her on the phone. I am going to be honest with her for more than just a week, I will be forever. I want to make this work so I am going to do everything I can to prove it and show it. Just going to take time.

Navy Guy,

My take on the difficulty with being honest is this:

1. You have problems being Radically Honest because there is a major thing about you that you have never told her before, and you do not want to tell her. This may not have anything to do with the affairs. It is there, lurking, and you believe it is a deal-breaker when anyone hears it, or you believe it is a huge secret and that you yourself can't even deal with it, perhaps. Just tell her and get it over with.

2. You are afraid that the whole truth will result in your being judged negatively by your wife. The consequences of this judgement will be the loss of the family, and you are not prepared to deal with that.


Somewhere in all of this, you need to realize that your wife has hung in there so far, and that she can probably deal with the whole truth a lot better than what you've given her so far.

SB

schoolbus - I see what you mean, but I am not sure what could be bigger or more difficult to admit to than the sexual activity with men - just sayin' -

Yeah I really don't have anything else to say, I have put it all out there. Yes I admit that I haven't given her as much credit as I should, but there really is nothing that I am holding back. Given my track record I understand why she feels like I am still holding something back, but again I am not.

We watched the movie FireProof last night. It is a VERY good movie and if you have not seen it yet I suggest that you do. Was an eye opener to me to say the least.