What she said!!! You are doing fantastic. Keep vigilant though, especially if WH and OW still see each other, in whatever capacity. That keeps the feelings going. Is there a way to work around this? If it's an activity, could he join another group?

Well, there is a distinct possibility OW and H will run into each other due to the interest (or due to her seeking him out which is more likely), but I am obviously aware and will be with H in his interest. He will not be participating alone, nor will we be where she is as much as possible. I can't trust her not to do something. He is well aware and knows that we will avoid her like the plague.

Triggers are so hard to discuss. I know you're right, I need to be O&H with him. I've been trying. I told him when I saw her SN on another message board, and he quickly got off. He has actually left the message board due to other reasons, which actually for me is a real good thing. I didn't want to ask him to leave it, but he did, so it worked out for me. Anyways, I guess I really need to tell him more, but I'm so afraid of upsetting him. He knows some of the triggers and does his best to be aware of them and avoid them, which is a lot. I guess I just need to be more O&H with myself to be O&H with him.

My biggest thing I think is that I've never asked for the details of the A. I can't, though I know I should. I know as much as I can handle. I get little details here and there anyways. I don't think I could handle full disclosure. I think it would kill me. I knew enough, saw enough, I don't know if I could handle hearing all the torrid details too. :-/

Definitely getting in as much UA time as possible. Hard with a kiddo, but we do the best we can. We have an agreement that I am off the computer in the evenings at minimum. We don't have an official POJA, but I have been trying to really push that with us, so that we are talking about what we do and don't want, understand, discuss, and go from there. I've caught myself a couple times saying we are going to do something, then I realize what I'm doing, and ask him his thoughts and the like. Again, it's a start. Recovery is difficult, but definitely doable. Especially when you have a willing partner.

cd78, what does this mean exactly? Are they still in contact?

Being with him will not prevent him from seeing her if she is there, though. Just seeing her will trigger his feelings. He will be in a state of perpetual withdrawal. You can't prevent that.

If his feelings are triggered, they can and will just meet up when you arent around. Everytime he sees her he goes back to DAY 1 of recovery. Its like an alcoholic going to the bar and having one drink. You might be able to stop it once or twice, but he has the taste in his mouth and will be looking for opportunities to drink when you aren't around.

cd78, I am so sorry you have agreed to a set up that is a death of a thousand cuts. I bet you H stays fogged out until this set up ends. This is what we call a false recovery.

This is the problem, cd78, is why you are not in recovery. If you were, you would be cutting off every avenue of contact together. If you haven't even discussed this with your H, then that is even worse.

Why haven't you had a discussion with your husband about cutting off ALL CONTACT wtih this OW? He shouldn't be leaving that message board for "other reasons" he should have left because he wants to protect YOU by ending all contact with the OW.

Recovery is not something that happens by magic. There has to be a PLAN to achieve this. That means FIRST affair proofing your marriage, by cutting off all contact with the OW. That is the LEAST you should accept from him in order to be willing to work on this marriage.

cd, go back and re-do STEP ONE, if you want to save this marriage.

continued here

Then odds are you will never recover.


Everybody always has extenuating circumstances. You may well be justified. But your marriage can't recovery this way! A couple may have a great excuse for not spending 15 hours together a week, but if it's impossible to do it, then it's impossible to sustain romantic love.


No it isn't. This isn't just about keeping the affair from renewing. Every contact with her is a trigger for him which will prevent him from completing withdrawal and recovery, which will prevent you from having the marriage you deserve!

It's not just about keeping her (or him) from trying anything!

Don't cherry-pick this program. You don't know all the reasons for the policies, yet, and here you seem to be trying to achieve the "goal" of NC without actually following it, but you are too inexperienced to know that there are actually several goals to that policy, which can't be met in the way you are describing.


You're tolerating one staying around, now, and her name is POSOW.


Then show him the door, please. One of the things you insist on before recovery even starts and Plan A/B end is that your wayward spouse engage with you in a program of recovery (Marriage Builders). If he isn't doing that, then you should not accept him back.

If you set the bar low, he will live down to it.

You deserve to have the good marriage that MB can provide. You deserve to not go through the hell of false recovery or dragging it out without working the plan.

How much is that, exactly? We have a hard time with five kiddoes.

The best you can will be at least 15+ hours. It's there. Your H will be motivated to help you find the time, when he enters recovery.

I recommend you track your UA time on paper each week, forever, especially if your child makes UA time difficult, so you will be instantly aware if you aren't getting it.

Once recovery starts, of course.

You can't "make" anyone do anything, cd.

But you can decide "I will not stay in a marriage where my husband has committed adultery and will not follow a program of recovery with me."

But going through a false recovery would be worse than driving him away, right? You said you were terrified of another false recovery.


In a Plan B letter.


I suggest taking a survey of the folks around here with recovered marriages, particularly those who went through false recovery first. See how many of them find this recovery "hopeful."

If I may chime in: My H and I did not have a FR. And there's a reason for that, cd. The reason is because there was NO CONTACT after exposure. ZIP. My H is now the poster boy for repentent ex-waywards. He says now that he realizes that he would have had to leave his job in order to end the A on his own - he would not have been able to do so if he had remained in contact with his AP.

It's just that simple. There can be NO CONTACT FOR LIFE.

Wow, what a firestorm. I've been through a false recovery, if anyone knows my old thread/SN.

ML- No, they are not in contact, verified several ways. I understand what you mean by seeing her triggering him. I wish I could go into more detail but I can't for a number of reasons. (Ask LilDoggie if you want to know why.) They had never talked via message board, and he was on there for a specific reason. That reason is no longer valid. I did talk with him about his use, though, and it was only in my presence that it was used.

There is about .0001% chance of them meeting up without me present, as she lives across the country. Would it still be a trigger for him to see her? Possibly, but the further we get away, the more he realizes how stupid he was and never wants contact with her again. I notice that in our random conversations, not from him specifically telling me. Though as I said there is a distinct possibility of them running into each other, it is highly doubtful it will occur. I guess I should have made that more clear. Now, the one place/time that there IS a HIGH probability she will seek him out, he and I have discussed, and he will not be attending. HE said this, and obviously I agree.

To respond to your quote from Dr. Harley, we have worked on what made the affair possible, and the message board and interest WASN'T it. The interest was the icing, not the cause. He is fully aware of his boundary issues, I am fully aware of my role. We know what made the affair possible now. Could this be a false recovery? I will not deny it. The first FR is still fresh in my mind. I have compared the two and they are tons different. He also knows my resolve. I will not stand for this again. I was patent and Plan A/B'ed because I knew of my role that made the environment possible. That has now been worked on diligently, and so if he ever tries this again, I WILL go to Plan D, no ifs, ands, or buts.

Markos - I understand what you are saying. I respectfully disagree in some cases. Maybe I'm not explaining myself well. It has been difficult since I can't say more than vague things. I have worked hard learning Dr. H's concepts. Am I still a novice? Definitely. Will I mess up? Yup, you bet.

He is aware that I am big on MB. I have been essentially implementing it, just without specific terms. He has been on board with all that I have said. So, I guess he really is on MB without knowing it. As for UA time, looking at this past week, and we've hit around 10 hours. And we still have Fri and Sat to go. He is VERY motivated for UA time, as he and I both know that was one of the causes for the A - Attention. This is HUGE in his book. As well as Recreational Companionship. We are really working on meeting those. I will definitely start to track UA time and report back in a few weeks in regards to that.

Am I nervous and terrified about making too many demands? Of course. That is not something I like to do on a normal basis now, as that was one of the causes for the bad environment. Have I made some? Certainly. Is it enough? Quite possibly not. Would it be worse than another FR? Possibly, I can't say for sure. Do I think others who are recovered would find my sitch hopeful? Probably not, not without all the details first. And even then. But, who knows. I try to follow MB to the best of my ability. That is what I can do. I make mistakes along the way, get back on the bus, and go at it again.

I apologize about getting defensive, this is something I've been working on in IC, but at the same time I don't feel that I can't be defensive when you all do not have all the details. Do I think with all the details you all would feel the same way? Probably. But at least you'd have all the details to better understand.

Anyways, that being said, gonna go back and reread SAA, it's been a couple months.

Thank you MB for chiming in. I truly understand that and we are preventing that as much as humanly possible. I made the mistake during my FR, not monitoring as well as I should have been, taking everything at face value, not insisting he do certain things. I wanted to trust again. As Homer Simpson says, "Duh!" That is NOT the case this time. We have changed things so that he is no longer "alone" with the computer, he leaves his phone with me anytime he leaves the room. I monitor, I snoop, I peek over his shoulder when he least expects it. And he peeks in on me. And I am glad he does. I invite it. He saw me writing to New Petals the other day and asked about it, and I told him. If I ask about something, he tells me now, I remind him about transparency if he doesn't (only happened once).

I'm glad that you and your H were able to make things work right after exposure. My exposure did not do as much as it should, other than to make many upset with ME more than him. I don't care though, I know I did what was right to save my marriage, and to he11 what others think. And I've stated that to him. This A had to die on it's own, with her Lb'ing and showing her true colors after I went into Plan B. I knew it would happen, I just had to wait. She became what I expected, and I knew he wouldn't like or accept that.

As I said to Markos, I don't think many who are recovered will think this is an active recovery, and that's ok. I still welcome stories and advice.

cd, it doesn't matter why he was on the board. Just the fact that the OW was on there should have been reason enough for him to leave. It is alarming that you have no plan in place for this and instead tell us he "left for OTHER reasons." That means there is no plan here.


That possibility should be REMOVED. He should remove any possibilities. It doesn't matter if you are there are not.


The fact that a liar tells you that he "never wants contact with her" is meaningless. He WILL "want" her again when he sees her. And he won't tell you about it because cheaters lie.



You are missing the point. He could SEE HER on the message board and that triggers him.

cd, I am sorry, but unless you set some boundaries here and affair proof your marriage, you are NOT in recovery. STEP ONE of recovery means to affair proof your marriage.

If you don't make that a condition, then you are headed for disaster. Its your marriage, you can take or leave this advice, but anyone here who is in a recovered marriage will tell you that this is not recovery. It is not recovery until ALL CONTACT ends. If he belongs to any organizations of which she is a member, he should quit.

If your husband was sincere about recovery, he would remove all those possibilities HIMSELF and open up his life to you. He would have quit that message board BECAUSE the OW is on there and he knows that threatens your marriage. He would volunarily quit this organization that offers the "possibility" of a sighting of the OW.

And if you were sincere, you would not settle for less.

This is not recovery, cd78. When you lower the bar, the WS will live down to you expectations. When you raise it, he will live up to them.

cd-I am sorry that you are feeling like there was a firestorm, but I will have to say that I AGREE 100% with what ML and Markos have said. I DO know your whole back story.

I also am having a real hard time with YOUR actions and not just you WHs. You need to be BRAVE. Don't be afraid of losing him. Maybe you pulled the plug on Plan B too soon. Especially since you were just learning how to be pitch black.

I know that you want nothing more than to recover your marriage. I want that. The thing is, I WILL NOT TAKE A MARRIAGE AT ALL COSTS. If my WH comes home and doesn't do the work, it will be Plan B again. Don't you remember how hurt you were by your FR?

I know that you can't talk about specifics. The thing is, you CAN talk about the things that are happening in the MB ways. You haven't asked for full disclosure of the A? You haven't told your WH about the triggers? You haven't TOLD your husband that he needs to PROTECT your marriage? What ARE you doing to RECOVER from INFIDELITY? You didn't have some MINOR issue in your marriage. There is your WH's AFFAIR that you are trying to recover from. Do it the MB way and you will have a GREAT chance.

Please CD, do this for yourself and your DS2. We are only telling you these things BECAUSE we care about you and your marriage. PLEASE LISTEN.

Scotty and the others are exactly right. You are doing this the HARD way and the LEAST likely way to come out in a recovered marriage. NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING is worth your marriage, especially some message board. You're playing with fire.

Whatever this top secret activity is that you're not willing to ask your husband to give up for his marriage may just be the final nail in your marriage. Asking him to do this is not a sacrifice, but rather a consequence of his poor choices and boundaries. May not happen today, may not even be the same OW, but the probablity that it will happen again is very high.

I told you early on that you are accepting crumbs. I still believe this.

There should be absolutely NO CHANCES of ANY contact with OW for the rest of your lives. Your (F?)WH should be willing to walk through fire for you at this point, but why should he if you don't care?

This is really sad.

crumbs - that's the real problem.

Even if there's never another A, who wants to settle for crumbs?

I've been silent a bit for a couple of reasons. First, I am busy trying to get in as much UA as possible with H. Secondly, because I really wanted to digest what you all had to say. I went back over some of the info on here, as well as tried to read my SAA again whenever I could.

I should have told him to leave the board. There are reasons why I didn't, but it's not important. I should have and I didn't. Did it resolve itself? Yes. Should it really have, though? No.

As for the activity, we have decided (as a POJA) to take a hiatus from the activity. We know she has only a bit of time left in it, but we know that even a minute chance of seeing her could be bad for us both. And we don't want to ever see her. I feel H is sincere in that, and I know that even though I promised if I ever saw her I would be nice (instead of doing what most of us want to do to the OP) but who knows if I could actually follow through. So lets not chance it. And quite frankly, we don't know what she would do, and don't ever want to know.

My triggers. One was a song. I told him about it, and he has been quite respectful and didn't question it. But the other day, I told him not to fast forward through it like he usually does for me. I realized it's a song. It has no power over me. Was it hard to hear the first time? Certainly. But, it's like saying her name. Not saying it gives it some power. But saying it? Well, it no longer has that power. That song no longer has that power.

I have tried to disclose other triggers to him. I still have some triggers, I know I need to continue disclosing, but it is so hard for me. I still can't fathom why, but it is difficult. I'm working on it through IC.

Speaking of C, H and I will be starting MC this fall, I am insisting on it and NOT letting it go, we go to MC or he goes and that's that. It won't be MB, but I go there for IC and I know they are pro marriage.

The last and most difficult was asking about the A. I have been staunch in my thoughts that I did not ever want to hear about it. I didn't ask, and he only disclosed little things of no consequence. But the other day we got talking. And we started to go into a major conversation about it. And then he stopped. He didn't want to tell me more for fear of hurting me, hating him, or whatever he was thinking. A part of me wanted to say, "yeah, I can assume and that's all I want to do."

But then I thought back to all that Dr. H and you all said. I thought about NP and how, even at full-term, listened to her WH talk about his A. And I was going to be chicken?!?

So, in the most calm, non-accusing voice and face I could muster, I told him I wanted him to share. I learned a lot of things that night. How much she is like me but so not like me. How physically different we are, but how he prefers me, and the reasons why. He, in very vague but distinct terms, told me that it most certainly went PA. THAT was hard to hear, but then I realized I suspected it anyways, so why should it matter? I know there is a lot he has yet to tell me, but I know that we are starting to really delve into what happened. This is a slow process, I don't think I could handle it all in one night anyways, but you all are right, it does make things better to know. I never believed it would make it better, but yup, once again, listen to those vets!

He continues to do as much as possible to help me relieve any fears I may have. He leaves his phone out in plain sight anytime he's not around (that was a huge part of the A.) I have NEVER seen him leave it out just lying around as much as he does now. He has moved the computer into the living room. He tells me all that he's planning on doing, and I do the same. He knows that he cannot go certain places now, as we have discussed what *could* happen and so he will not be going there. There is no complaints about it. He will tell his work that there are certain places he cannot go anymore in case he may run into her. He is very much NOT interested in ever seeing her or dealing with drama.

He is really starting to realize how much he almost lost. (Quite frankly, I am realizing the same thing!) Almost every day he tells me how sorry he is. We're looking into a new apartment together, as the old one brings up too many bad memories. We want to start fresh. We're planning on leaving DS with family in a couple of weekends so we can have US time. We haven't had us time in forever, and a full weekend will be really meaningful.

So, I'm a bit thick-headed. I'm defensive. But I'm realizing I need to stop being defensive (again, stuff I'm working on in IC) and actually LISTEN. Thank you all for your as I obviously needed them (my not listening is part of my part in what got us in this mess!). Continue on with them!

It's good to hear that things are going well. I, personally am glad that your WH has given up the activity that the OW was possibly around. That will be GREAT for your recovery.

As far as the triggers, I am glad that you have started to share them with your WH. O&H needs to go both ways. You will find a lot more times that will "trigger" you and your WH will need to know what is going on. Also, the vets often say that at around the 6 month mark of recovery, the BS becomes really ANGRY. Your WH will need to know about this to be able to help you through it.

I hope that your MC is knowledgeable about MB and their concepts. Did you look at the how to choose a counselor part of the site?

What you are doing for the recovery part is okay, I think you will still need to work on it together but it sounds like it is heading in the right direction this time.

cd, you're doing so well. FWH seems so willing to work on your marriage and you seem like you are doing great not LB'ing when triggers come up and being a safe place for him! That's fantastic!

Knowing all the details makes it a bit better, doesn't it? I mean, it's hard and horrible to hear but at least you KNOW. Whenever it gets really bad, remember what the NC letter says - it was a SELFISH INDULGENCE. That is all affairs are.

((cd)) I'm so proud of you!