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Yet when I say this, feminists rail at me... "Don't you want to not have to depend on a man!?"
One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt
Frankly, I ended up divorced from my WW, after exposure, etc. After reading Dr H's view, that if Joyce cheated, he'd divorce her, I agree.
My wife may HAVE been a great catch, but once someone decides an affair is the solution to the marriage problems, they lose that status.
I personally WILL NOT fight for a wayward wife. If she cannot see my value, then I'm better off without her. Plan D, immediate, do not pass go, do not collect $200.
I've done the try to win the WW back under SH's coaching and will NOT ever try it again.
I went so far as to get a vasectomy after my divorce so I wouldn't have any more children.
Life is just too valuable to be spent with someone who cannot honor her vows.
I'm surprised that more guys are not taking this up, but oh well, perhaps they are too busy as I should be right now.
Anyway I would like to add my three cents. I think your example is more of adrenalin than testosterone..*s* It is true, men are more or less cultured to protect, react to aggression, and be competitive. Which guy would not stand up for his W if he saw someone seriosly trying to hit on her. Which baseball pitcher would not be eager to throw at the other team's batter if he saw that team's pitcher intentionally throwing at a batter on his own team.
I too have seen almost too many guys here continue to avoid and do all the wrong things after so much advice is given to them.
But, at least initially I think a guy's reaction is like this. In the case of your bear, let's say that somehow your wife gained the bear's trust so that he would not harm her, but SHE is the one who led that bear to your camp. I think most guys would be bewhilderd and confused at fist as I was to the point of not knowing how to react. Some might even wonder if they should shoot the bear OR the wife first. Most others would at least initially think that their wife ought to at least have the sense of obligation to end the affair. I believe these feelings are normal for a guy initialy because, unlike facing only the bear, now the guy is facing betrayal and the feeling of at least sense of rejection it may bring. That can not only cloud judgement, but it could dillute any amount of testosterone. I think that most guys do recover their courage after they've had time to get over the initial shock.
The other thing is, we really don't know the wife's true feelings in these cases and the reasons for them. That does NOT of course in any way justify an affair. However, that wife may have long ago lost respect for her H due to things lacking in the marriage. I feel that once a woman gets to that stage it is hard for anyone to win her back.
I personally WILL NOT fight for a wayward wife. If she cannot see my value, then I'm better off without her. Plan D, immediate, do not pass go, do not collect $200.
That is every man's prerogative, but what about those who WANT to stay married and sit by and allow their wives to abuse them?
Also, Dr Harley did say he didn't know what he would actually do in that situation. Not that there is anything wrong with deciding to cut your losses. I respect those who do and I respect those don't.
What I DO NOT respect are wimpy men who decide to stay and do absolutely nothing to defend themselves. That is shameful.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt
By the way, most guys are reluctant to take advice initially at least when they feel confused or lost. How many W's out there have tried to convince there H's to stop somewhere and ask for directions when she felt he was lost, and he really was!
The good guys are the ones who do finally admit they are lost and at least look at the roadmap.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt
Frankly, I ended up divorced from my WW, after exposure, etc. After reading Dr H's view, that if Joyce cheated, he'd divorce her, I agree.
My wife may HAVE been a great catch, but once someone decides an affair is the solution to the marriage problems, they lose that status.
I personally WILL NOT fight for a wayward wife. If she cannot see my value, then I'm better off without her. Plan D, immediate, do not pass go, do not collect $200.
I've done the try to win the WW back under SH's coaching and will NOT ever try it again.
I went so far as to get a vasectomy after my divorce so I wouldn't have any more children.
Life is just too valuable to be spent with someone who cannot honor her vows.
My FWH and I had an agreement when we got married. That agreement was that the only 'marriage-breaker' for either of us would be infidelity. Well. Fast-forward a few years, and lo and behold, my H cheated on me.
That whole agreement thingy flew out the window. I had to do some heavy heart-searching to determine what I wanted for ME. What was best for ME. That choice was my flawed, repentent WH. Do I regret that decision? No.
I had the right to call the whole thing off, sure. But I chose not to. You made a different decision. I won't fault you that for a second. You did what was right for you.
I think it's sometimes easy to say what a person would do in a given situation, especially when that situation isn't even looming on the horizon. Things can really change when the situation actually occurs. It did for me.
D-Day 2-10-2009 Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever! Thank you Marriage Builders!
One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger
Frankly, I ended up divorced from my WW, after exposure, etc. After reading Dr H's view, that if Joyce cheated, he'd divorce her, I agree.
My wife may HAVE been a great catch, but once someone decides an affair is the solution to the marriage problems, they lose that status.
I personally WILL NOT fight for a wayward wife. If she cannot see my value, then I'm better off without her. Plan D, immediate, do not pass go, do not collect $200.
I've done the try to win the WW back under SH's coaching and will NOT ever try it again.
I went so far as to get a vasectomy after my divorce so I wouldn't have any more children.
Life is just too valuable to be spent with someone who cannot honor her vows.
My FWH and I had an agreement when we got married. That agreement was that the only 'marriage-breaker' for either of us would be infidelity. Well. Fast-forward a few years, and lo and behold, my H cheated on me.
That whole agreement thingy flew out the window. I had to do some heavy heart-searching to determine what I wanted for ME. What was best for ME. That choice was my flawed, repentent WH. Do I regret that decision? No.
I had the right to call the whole thing off, sure. But I chose not to. You made a different decision. I won't fault you that for a second. You did what was right for you.
I think it's sometimes easy to say what a person would do in a given situation, especially when that situation isn't even looming on the horizon. Things can really change when the situation actually occurs. It did for me.
Let's be clear, as it appears you mis-understand.
My first marriage, I fought for my WW, and she got the divorce she wanted despite my fight for her, the marriage and the family. I got the house, she got the divorce and primary custody.
I'm re-married. But I wouldn't fight for my wife should she cheat. I've been down that road and won't go down it again. In fact, if she were to cheat, I'd probably never marry again. But one cannot say for certain.
However, I will have no children with her, I've seen to that, so if she should decide to betray me, she's off the team, forever.
I'm surprised that more guys are not taking this up, but oh well, perhaps they are too busy as I should be right now.
Anyway I would like to add my three cents. I think your example is more of adrenalin than testosterone..*s* It is true, men are more or less cultured to protect, react to aggression, and be competitive. Which guy would not stand up for his W if he saw someone seriosly trying to hit on her. Which baseball pitcher would not be eager to throw at the other team's batter if he saw that team's pitcher intentionally throwing at a batter on his own team.
I too have seen almost too many guys here continue to avoid and do all the wrong things after so much advice is given to them.
But, at least initially I think a guy's reaction is like this. In the case of your bear, let's say that somehow your wife gained the bear's trust so that he would not harm her, but SHE is the one who led that bear to your camp. I think most guys would be bewhilderd and confused at fist as I was to the point of not knowing how to react. Some might even wonder if they should shoot the bear OR the wife first. Most others would at least initially think that their wife ought to at least have the sense of obligation to end the affair. I believe these feelings are normal for a guy initialy because, unlike facing only the bear, now the guy is facing betrayal and the feeling of at least sense of rejection it may bring. That can not only cloud judgement, but it could dillute any amount of testosterone. I think that most guys do recover their courage after they've had time to get over the initial shock.
The other thing is, we really don't know the wife's true feelings in these cases and the reasons for them. That does NOT of course in any way justify an affair. However, that wife may have long ago lost respect for her H due to things lacking in the marriage. I feel that once a woman gets to that stage it is hard for anyone to win her back.
Again just my three cents.
Tom
All good points Tom. Certainly my examples and analogies are somewhat simplistic and not totally comparable to the complexities of betrayal.
And I certainly did not see the Russian Circus trained Kodiak bear scenario coming. I would shoot my ex-wife first by the way.
But those who come back day after day updating about every little text message but never lifting a finger to protect themselves or their children��it�s really tough to watch. The fear of their WWs they have is nearly palatable. And they have every excuse under the sun not to do anything for themselves. Arg.
Sometimes in their initial post they will spit out, �And I can�t ever expose because��..� just to try to preempt exposure advice from the forum.
Ranger�s are rigorously trained and equipped to assault the ambush. The betrayed wrecks that arrive here (and I was once one) are only starting their boot camp. But after a few weeks of great information and advice and still no signs of a man willing to protect himself, his children or fight for his wife�.? Let�s talk about her text activity last night instead? And yet they continue to declare they want their marriage?
Time to get out of the chopper boys.
Last edited by chrisner; 05/20/1003:41 PM.
Testosterone boys! Testosterone! It ain’t just for nose, ear and back hair anymore!
Yet when I say this, feminists rail at me... "Don't you want to not have to depend on a man!?"
It's not that you "have to depend" on a man - or anyone else. Maybe both you and the man in your life can make things a little easier and more fun for both of you.
Crikey, life is tough enough as it is without having to go through it alone.
Helpless dependency is one thing. Having a partner who is there for you, while you're there for him, is a completely different thing.
Me, BW WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
ITA. I've seen little 5'2, 120 lb women (coughcough) put up a bigger fight than some men. I don't understand it either.
......yep, me too. And ironically, the OW's, especially single ones, are willing to battle the BW for the WH. They usually DON'T back down and slither away like most OM's. Go figure.......
The most EMPOWERING thing I have ever done was stand up to OW and bring my A game to the table........ Imagine men how great your own SELF-RESPECT would grow if you were to do this......
I thought I did or said something when we met up that gave you this idea! 