This is a bit of a T/J and I apologize; however, Luroosi2's analogy of burning down the house is wonderful.

My question is in regards to what type of house to rebuild. I'm not sure if I follow the norm of WW but our first "house" was built to his specifications and I did most of the heavy lifting. Obviously I blew that all out of the water when I burned it down.

Now, I am fully on board with rebuilding and doing the heavy lifting but do we discuss specifications or just make it all his way again? I guess I know the answer but my problem is, he wants our old house back and well, I just don't but since I'm the one who torched it, I feel kinda guilty about that.

End of TJ

To DJB....it will take awhile for the intimacy. I'm sure she feels that despite her having done what you wanted all that time, you still strayed, so she has lost her confidence (hopefully temporarily). Being unconfident makes SF difficult. Perhaps you can find other ways to build that up unrelated to SF.

Well said, luri.

DJB, the article I linked above is about BWs who find it difficult to enjoy sex once the affair is over. You will find the whole thing useful. Here is a bit more from it. Dr Harley shows why this particular difficulty is hard to overcome, and takes time:

Both B.A. and S.K. think about their husband's affair when they try to make love, and it prevents them from having a fulfilling sexual experience. And they both learned about the affairs within the past few months. But there's quite a bit of difference between them. B.A. has only one affair to think about, while S.K. has six of them, many with her closest friends. As a result, other things being equal, I would expect B.A.'s resentment to fade much more quickly than S.K.'s resentment.

The resentment of B.A. and S.K. is a normal emotional reaction to the pain they suffered. The pain was directly associated with their husbands, so now, every time they make love, and lower their emotional defenses, they feel that pain all over again.

But emotional associations fade over time as long as there are no further associations with new painful events. In both cases, their husbands have not had an affair after the revelation, and so I would predict that if they have a normal recovery, where they learn to meet each other's needs, avoid Love Busters and learn to apply the Policy of Joint Agreement and the Policy of Radical Honesty to their decisions, the resentment would fade away.

If, on the other hand, either husband were to have another affair, the association would be much harder to extinguish. In fact, when a couple goes through a recovery after an affair, and then experience another affair, the resentment is often more intense and more persistent after the second recovery. With multiple affairs and recoveries, resentment is almost impossible to overcome. But then, in those cases I usually feel that the emotional reaction of resentment is not irrational at all. Emotions are telling the person that it's not a good idea to continue the relationship, and I would agree.

But there is more to resent than just the number of affairs a husband had in the past. In many cases, an affair is discovered while it's going on, and the unfaithful spouse makes matters worse by choosing to be with the lover and abandoning the spouse and children. That thoughtless act is a huge source of additional resentment for the victimized spouse. He or she not only goes through the pain of discovering the affair, but must also go through the pain of being rejected. The unfaithful spouse often moves away to be with the lover, leaving the spouse all alone to face the terror of abandonment.

Then, if all of that weren't enough, the unfaithful spouse explains that he or she needs time to "sort out" feelings, whatever that means. It actually means that the unfaithful spouse will go to the highest bidder. Whoever makes the unfaithful spouse feel the best, the lover or the spouse, will win the prize of the unfaithful spouse. So he or she spends some time with the lover, and then spends some time with the spouse. Back and forth, trying to "get in touch" with feelings. Can you fathom the resentment that would follow such a horrifying and humiliating experience?

But there's more. After vacillating back and forth a few times, the lover gets sick of it all and tosses the spouse out for good. With nowhere else to go, the unfaithful spouse comes back home. It wasn't his or her choice. It was the lover's choice. How would you feel being chosen because you were the only one left. Resentment doesn't begin to describe the feeling.

Finally, there's all the lies. Your spouse looks right into your eyes and lies to you about everything. Faced with undeniable evidence, he or she grudgingly and defensively admits to one lie after another, rarely accompanied by apologies. How can there ever be trust again?

B.A. and S.K. went through only a small number of the possible painful experiences that lead to resentment. Over time, their resentment will fade, and a passionate desire to make love to their husbands will grow. Both husbands should be patient, and give their wives a chance to overcome the worst of their resentment, before expecting much from them sexually. But a woman in love is usually a great sex partner, and I doubt that either husband will be disappointed if they do their part in meeting their wives emotional needs. I predict that within a year from now, both of these wives will have almost completely recovered from their feelings of resentment.

sunnydaze, I don't think the WS just rolls over, but rolling over usually isn't a problem when I FWS begins going down the "when do I get what I want" mode. The only FWS's I have seen on here who get rolled on are those who are still so destroyed by what they did months and months later that their BS can "play it" to keep them under the thumb. It doesn't seem like the OP's wife is doing that. It just seems like she is still struggling. That is something we just have to be patient with.

I would love for you to start a thread asking your question because I would be interested in seeing what the thoughts would be.

I do have a thread...it was just buried. I posted my question so now I'm at the top. You can read it if you wish or just scroll through to the end.

End of TJ

DJB, trying is not the same as doing. All of your efforts at creating romantic love are WASTED if you don't have 20+ hours a week of undivided attention.

I TOLD you how to create intimacy and that is the answer.

No, no I wasn't saying she was the problem..I obviously am the problem. I am not angry with you thank you.

Melody I am TRYING to schedule time. W doesn't seem to want to put forth the effort OR be away from our daughter that much.

Patience.

SWW

DJB, I think you are doing great overall, except I think you were potentially taking a wrong turn today. Looks like you've been redirected. Looking at your other thread, I have confidence you'll take the advice to heart, and I feel optimistic about your chances.

You do need to fall back in love. She needs to go first. She needs to fall in love first, and you'll be in conflict for awhile, which is rough. Hang in there, because it gets better.

You have really got to fix this problem with the POUA, though. You have GOT to make 20-30 hours a week together. HAVE TO. MUST.

I don't believe the stuff about your one child who is not in school preventing you from having time. You can't snow me on that one. I have five children, none of whom are in school. We put 20 hours on our schedule for each other every week; we have an emergency plan to get 28 when needed.

Thoughtfully request more time with your wife, and then for every bit that you get, give her your undivided attention and make it spectacularly worth HER while. Kill some of your priorities if you have to. She'll be more willing to kill some of hers if necessary when it's really, really worth her while.

Hang in there.

Then I guess you have to thoughtfully request the changes you want just like those of us who haven't had an affair in our marriage. There is a way to go about it, and it's got to take your spouse's feelings into account or else it'll never work. I know you know that, but it's the same for faithful spouses with a reluctant spouse as it is for wayward spouses with a reluctant spouse. Every time I've started focusing on how hard the lifting was for me and how I wish my wife would do more, I've been wrong. You can read my thread. It's embarrassing. Those are the times I have really, really, REALLY hurt my wife.

Get your thread active again (bump multiple times if you have to) and get more eyes looking at why your marriage's recovery isn't progressing the way you'd like it to. There IS an answer to how to get what you want out of marriage, wayward or not. It's gonna involve patience and heavy lifting no matter what, though.

That sounds like strict Marriage Builders, to me: pushing and cajoling is controlling (abusive) behavior, something one tries to implement with disrespectful judgments, selfish demands, and angry outbursts, and something intolerable for marriage, from the Marriage Builders point of view.

Thank you Markos. I'm not seeing how you do it with 5 kids. We have ONE family member in our town who is willing to watch our daughter. If she is at home there is NO alone time unless it's after she goes to bed. She's the type that sees us hugging and runs in there to root in between us. We're planning on signing her up for Pre-K but that's not until August. Babysitters are tough, because we don't trust many people. I'll work on it. Any ideas for alone time strategy are appreciated.

I stopped trying to get any SF about 4 days ago, hopefully I can make it last and she will come around eventually.

She wants a quick fix just as much as I do. Always looking into Marriage retreats, etc.

There's your clue.

Your wife might want a quick fix, as you say, but is it a quick fix to enjoying sex? Has she told you this?