And another question and dilemma...she is CLEARLY not happy. Every day - she is just visibly sad. Of course, this makes me sad as well..I am happy outside visibly when around my daughter, but she cannot even be happy then. Of course, this devastates me as well. And I KNOW that a divorce will not make her happy - she has to choose to start being happy. But, in the meantime, I cannot do anything about that can I?

This all sucks..Every option, every day...just sucks.

Read about withdrawal again. It is fundamental, unavoidable, predictable, and disillusioning. But it is also temporary, as long as the affair stays destroyed. New contact = clock starting over.

Your plan is to try to destroy the affair, a big part is destroying the fantasy. If you're on board with her, it means what she ts doing is OK, right?

Yes, there is ALOT you can do. She is depressed because of her affair. Adulterers usually ARE depressed because they are having to wrestle with their consciences every waking moment.

What you can do to help this is FIGHT the affair with all you have and do your best to save your marriage. That will not be achieved by appeasing her fogged out, confused mind. She needs you to stand up for your marriage and lead them out of the FOG.

Igrip,

I don�t understand you at all sometimes. You keep saying that you want your wife and family together but you keep doing the things that will guarantee its dissolution and you keep ignoring or delaying doing the things that give recovery a fighting chance. You continue to dither and appease and reject GOOD ADVICE.

Has something changed? Do you now want a divorce? If so, then take her �deal�. Get it IN WRITING ASAP because I don�t believe for one second that her financial �generosity� is believable or that it will stand up in court without a signed contract. Understand that, even if by some miracle you get �favorable� economic terms, the emotional costs are going to be massive. Don�t believe her divorce-fantasy about �friends� and everything �working out� easily with your daughter. SHE IS SUCKERING YOU (esp. via your daughter) AND YOU ARE TAKING THE BAIT. [My WW tried something very similar on me.] Here is what is really going to happen: Your xWW is going to get CS, alimony (probably), 50-50 custody, she�s going to move in soon thereafter with the POSOM, your daughter is going to be spending half-time with them, and she will soon be calling him �daddy� too��

Hello!!!!! Is this what you want?

I don�t know how many times we have to you to get this into your head! Having �been there� and having been bullied & manipulated as a BH, I can see exactly what is going on here from a distance WAY better than you can now from up close (both physically and emotionally). I feel like I am watching an impending train derailment in slow motion but am not allowed to flip the switch to prevent it.

My Lord, man---you have advantages that I would have KILLED to have had back in 2006-7!!! [I was foundering back then before I found MB and my state is strictly �no fault�.] You have advice & MB plans to guide and strengthen you AND you live in a state in which adultery has substantial legal repercussions---you have the weapons to DESTROY this affair before it destroys you!!!

What the hell are you waiting for????????????????

Dude, she's "sad" right now because she's out-of-contact (mostly anyway) with her LOVER--i.e., early withdrawal. She's not sad about the 'amicable' divorce! She's trying to bamboozle you into going along with that so she can resume her affair full-tilt!!

WAKE UP PLEASE!!!!

hi igrip, I've been reading following your thread as I'm in a really really similar position right now and by no means an expert. I read your post above and everyones advice and it applies to me too. We both have to stop our WWs from having a getaway option, and make divorce as hard as possible. My WW is actively lookig for a new flat to move to, and I know deep down that as soon as she gets her way, it's gonna be 10 times harder to get her back. I even found revealing the affair counter-intuitive at the time, but looking back, in had no choice. I think all the advice is right, try and make her path to divorce as awkward as possible. it's hard - but it makes sense! Good
luck mate!

Hi igrip,

First, I have to apologize to you for my post to you last evening, which I believe totally missed the point of where you are at. I know that you had received a copy of the divorce petition, but you have had alot of activity on your thread the last couple of days and I missed a full page of posts skimming your thread-to-date yesterday. Let me say also I have read alot of posts and threads here to gain knowledge and insight into my own situation. I will tell you that your situation has touched me and I am so much pulling for you.

That being said Igrip, I would like to offer you my observations. I need to caution you tho that I am have not gone thru a divorce nor come close to it. So, if I offer anything inappropriate I would ask the more experienced here to counter me. Also, my W and I are in recovery now, but there are some other complicating factors.

I believe what I sense most is that you are getting lost between the methodology (noncontested vs. contested divorce) and the desired results that people are offering. Also, like Melody has been advising you, you are letting yourself become too distracted by your W's day-to-day behavior. If she gives you a little bit of hope one day you seem to go into a stall mode.

My point Igrip is that you have been in your Plan A for at least a little while now and no results. She has gone to the next step by filing for D. Like in the withdrawal stage of the three states of mind in a marriage it seems that she has emotionally divorced you at this point, and now in her fog she is attempting to buy you out of the marriage. Her goal of course is to be able to be with her AP physically as well as emotionally zip speed. I belive what other more experienced people here have been telling you is that by not fighting (i.e., not countersuing) and agreeing to be amicable your chances of saving your marriage are nil. Imho, and I say this gently Igrip, she is already gone. In addition, I am afraid You will be the one to have to leave your home.

Now, I believe what the people are saying to you is that by countersuing for adultery you have a chance at least somewhat above nil to save your marriage. They are telling you that you should make it so difficult and distasteful that it isn't worth the effort for either your W or the AP to hold onto their dream, and that their 'dream' is totally unrealistic. Isn't that what you do want? I can understand what you are saying or most likely thinking in not wanting to do that for sake of the unpleasant circumstances and possible resentment on part of you W, but I agree with the others here that is seems to be the only card you have now in your goal to kill this affair and save your marriage.

One other quick though Igrip, and that is if you go down amicably then you risk your young daughter being raised in an affairage, not a marriage.

Oh man Igrip I am really pulling for you, and my words are simply meant to try to get you to act on all the excellent advice that has been given to you. You will also be in my prayers, and that is all I can do.

...well, all of the above being offered, this is the first near 90 sunny day we have had in the chicago area since last August, and I need to get out and water my new garden.

Tom

Withdrawal, from what I can remember, takes a minimum of 6 weeks, and up to six months or longer! You won't see anything untill it is over. Anything you do see is a mirage that will throw you off course or a tactic to distract you. Heck, in my story, about 2-3 weeks before our hearing to get me out of the house, my wife let me get pretty busy with her for the first time in over a year and see her naked as well, which hadn't happened for a long time. Less than a month later I was out.

Your plan A is confusing the things she had already decided. But those things poke out every so often and then get shoved back down. She may test her feelings and back off. But you have to be around.

She has filed. Soon she will be asking the judge to have you leave.

This is my experience. If you leave, either voluntarily or under legal order, you will not be back, you will be divorced. This is not a given, but it is likely.

I don't know the law where you are, but I have gathered that you can countersue for adultery. Maybe that gives you a better chance of staying in the home. Maybe she will leave then. But even so, you can leave the door open. If she stays or if she comes back, you can work your plan A and ride out the withdrawal.

There is no other alternative that will work.

herb,

You just told Igrip what I was trying to say, but much better. As I prefaced, I have not gone thru a divorce, but the advice of all here now is so intuitively obvious to me.

I just am pulling for this guy, and know what, it just damn hurts to see him not protect himself and his daughter.

Tom

I'm listening I'm listening. This sucks, understandably, but I am listening. Everyone makes sense. If I sit and 'take it,' chances are great that I will be divorced before the end of the summer. By 'fighting' the divorce, there is a chance for something other than divorce....that does make sense. Now. I'm slow, but I learn eventually.

So, just to confirm, all this junk she says about how we were done a year ago, regardless of affair, is just fog? For sure? The 'thing' that set her off, remember, one month ago, was that I 'figured' out that I was wrong all this time (about arguments, etc - that it was not all her fault). However, one month ago marks about the same time her 'physical' affair started...emotionally however, who knows. So she is feeding all of us some bullS*** when she talks? Everything else on this forum has been spot on and makes sense...just want to clarify every loose thread while I continue. I told her that I did not 'believe' her today when she said she was 'out' a year ago - sleeping in our bed, being affectionate and doing normal stuff day to day does not match someone that is 'out.' Yes, that may be a lovebuster, but it was hard not to tell her...of course, she argued...but I did not argue back so that is progress To me, it is strange that I cannot have ANY affection anymore from her..even a hug. One month and a day ago, we slept together. When I figured out we had a problem, NOT A KISS, hand caress, hug...NOTHING. Weird? I have already been replaced by the OM in her mind is my theory.

Today, was a terrible day. She woke up angry...after a GREAT day yesterday. She is CHOOSING to be unhappy. Nothing, including our daughter, is making her happy. I told her today how 'blessed' we were - had money for lunch, didn't have to work sundays, had a beautiful healthy baby girl...lots of things that I was happy this weekend even with this turmoil going on with us - she could not even see that as she is 'empty' inside (cannot explain - I assume the OM, but that is just an assumption). Today, she was argumentative, opinionated, angry, not showing any respect...nothing like her normal self at all. I told her I refused to take the blame for everything and to be portrayed by her as a monster. I said it nicely, but I cannot sit and be berated for every little thing she 'invents' that day. It is getting ridiculous.

I have my appointment this week with the 'big dog' attorney - she will give me my legal options and advice there. I have 24 days from last thursday before I have to 'respond' to her suit - so I am safe until then.

NO, I do not want to leave my house.
NO, I do not want a divorce.

THANK YOU for all the advice and help and prayers..I look forward to three things these days - my daughter every day, talking to a good friend of mine every night and checking these forums daily. Thank you.

Sorry you had a bad day, igrip. Your lawyer will try and persuade you to take the easier, softer way so her job will be easy. Don't let her do that. You tell HER what you want. She works for you. And what you want is for her to countersue on grounds of adultery and subpoena the OM into court. She will want to subpoena all phone records and emails too.

Tell her you want her to make SURE you do not have to leave your home. And that you want to keep your child with you.

The goal will be to get living arrangements, finances and visitation all in place and then you can drag your feet. The idea is to drag it out longer than the affair lasts. If you can manage to outlast the affair, then you have a chance to recover your marriage. if that happens, you can drop the divorce.

This is making sense. Now, a few questions to make it clearer.

1. She is constantly afraid that I am going to 'drag her through the mud' and 'turn this ugly.' By countersuing, I am doing just that (in her mind) right? (don't worry, I know that sleeping with OM turned it ugly by itself).
1a. So, when she finds out I countered, she is going to be furious right? What is my 'explanation?" How do I make it sound like 'i am still the good guy.'

So, I know I will find out when I talk to the lawyer, but I am going to counter, stay in the house, stop contact for sure with the OM, etc...then what? We are not necessarily going to court are we? We are just countersuing, keeping me in the house and then 'dragging' feet until another time in the future? Am I reading and understanding this correctly?

There is a 'restraining' section to my divorce which my wife claims is just 'typical' and 'normal' and that she would never 'enforce' that unless she was afraid for her life. I told her that I have never given her any reason for that and I was insulted that was even in there..she claims she had no idea and it is just standard.

I am seeing this logic here..thank you everyone. The way I am, I still feel guilty for it...but I know it is the right and 'best' move at the time. Today, I deleted a few episodes from the DVR - and I felt bad. But she hasn't watched TV with me for a month so that was my rationale...I still feel bad though. That is how I operate....WAY too nice huh?

My WW said the same thing "you're making this ugly. It didn't have to be." What she means is, you're not making it EASY. Just tell her you're doing the best you can to save your marriage. That's the only explanation & reasoning you can offer.

Yeah...you're pretty much toast. What a shame. You never lifted a finger to save your family.

Time for a new name...igrippedinfear.

Best of luck to you in your future hovel and Ramen noodle dinners. Don't worry though you, might get supervised visits with your daughter.

I really hope you wake the he77 up!

Your wife is afraid you will defend yourself and make her destruction of your family difficult. She wants to replace you with no difficulty.

Just let her know that you will be fighting for your marriage tooth and nail and will not cooperate in any way, shape or form. The TRUTH is your explanation. She won't like it no matter how you explain it.

igrip, I want to emphasize that Plan A does not stand for [censored] kissing or appeasement. It is not a lovebuster to defend your marriage from her ugly assault.

I'm awake MaiMai...don't worry, I am on board (finally).

I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that while you might have an effect on your wife's attitude on the subject, you can't have any legal effect on your rights unless you are abusing your daughter or something, or sign your rights away. Lots of people have rough divorces; it does not mean they forfeit their right to be with their child once divorced.

If the unthinkable happens and you've gone through this plan, I can't see how it would affect visitation/custody with your daughter at all. You haven't done anything wrong.

Of course, courts are sometimes biased against fathers, but your best defense against that is a bulldog attorney.

All of those Love Busters are addressed by the Marriage Builders program. The two of you can address them together in Recovery. Many, many husbands and wives have overcome these. They do not justify an affair.

What you can do right now is make sure you do not engage in abusive love busters: selfish demands, disrespectful judgments, angry outbursts. It sounds like you are doing this quite well. Don't let her guilt you as a distraction from what must really happen: she must give up her adultery, which was never justified by your love busters. (If it were justified, you'd be in an affair, too ... what she has done to you is WORSE than what she says you've done to her.)

By the way, I think the fact that she is printing out stuff like this to give you is GREAT because it shows she still isn't giving up on the marriage! But I wouldn't address it in any context other than within Marriage Builders, and only in recovery!

Markos:

You said this about her printing out the "abuse" info:



This is HORRIBLE news. She didn't print it out to have a discussion with IG to work out the problems in the marriage.

She printed it out to provide more support to her reasons for throwing him out of the house. "He abused me" is very powerful. And leaves IG at a disadvantage. Even if he was not the perfect husband, with her "ugly-colored, rewriting marital history" glasses, EVERYTHING IG did wrong is now "abuse".

And she went looking for MORE info, so that she can PAD the story.

IG: Do not get drawn into those types of discussions right now. Her Sunday was FILLED with attempts on her part to get you to respond to her in a negative manner. You did well to avoid this.

You may need to go purchase a Voiced Activated Recorder, and carry it on you when you think there is going to be possible negative interaction, which can be AT ANY TIME.

And its better to have on tape what was happening BEFORE the voices are raised. SHe is looking for the excuse to get you removed.

LG

I'm very glad to hear this!!!