OK, we gotta figure out the best ways to ask for things including our husband's time and conversation. Have to make dinner but we will figure this out!

Uh-oh. I think the emails/letters may be a LB for my H, as well. He makes comments here and there about "wow, I did not get one of the emails from you this week, you must be feeling good". I never thought to read it as : I hate them. Iiiiiinteresting!

Hmmm,
my number 2 EN is O&H, which kinda means some C is gong to have to be involved since neither of us are good at in depth sign language .
3 Day ago I asked Flick about filling EN's. I was asking from MY place ie am I, Lil, filling his ENs. He got confused (maybe) and said he often thought about EN's but didnt like telling me about it because he didnt want me to think he was hugging me just to tick a box.

Sooooooo...

Maybe I could have explained it again, but since my DH is allergic to C (not QUITE as much as Mr Jayne) I had to stop about here and leave the C for another time. I want to know how to respectfully revisit a C in such a way that it doesn't come across as nagging; that most hated of guy things.

Maybe guys just don't like talking?

{{{hugs}}}} Jayne.

My H is way more direct, Gdar. I get the angry outburst about it.

Well, I have found that right after SF is generally a good time.

It would be nice if I could feel comfortable initiating meaningful C at other times as well.

Jayne, about the sharing fatigue in sharing your O&H again, LA once asked me to consider doing for my marriage what I was unwilling to do for my spouse. How would you feel about doing something similar, doing for your marriage what you feel too exhausted to do for yourself?

Have you ever tried a 180? If you did, did you like it, did it feel relevant for where you were? For me, it helped me when I felt that deep loneliness you are sharing.

I know you have a lot of comraderie with your coworkers, do you meet with these folks or other folks outside of work stuff? It's really sad coping with the loss of a lifelong friend, and I'm wondering if this and your loneliness in your marriage are having a tougher impact on you together. While you're thinking through what you want to do in your marriage, how about at the same time also working on your friendships? Are you making friends with any of the moms from boy scouts, neighbors, church, bible study, or your kids' classmates' parents? Or couple friends with any of the parents? Do you think scheduling some social get-togethers with your family would help? Does you H talk when you all are out with other families?

Are there any new things that you are thinking about trying out this week or next week, to help you get out of this rut?

You guys totally nailed the response to "I can't make you happy"...I was wrong.

CWMI, I loved you and Hold's suggestion very much.

Very true, too.

You're not crazy, Gdar. Yes, he's choosing to not do what he knows makes you happy.

Jayners, you're not crazy. You know it's a choice.

Stop at the choice, though.

"I know you believe you can't make me happy anymore. What I don't know is how you feel about that."

Insert "anymore" because this wasn't true at the beginning, and sometimes, since then...and do you want to know how he feels about his belief?

And what about us? Is it really Conversation? Or attention?

To see him see us...hear us...experience us; not as an appliance, but as a person? I know I experience my DH as an appliance...especially when he's not meeting my expectations. When we talk, I get to experience DH as DH, get to know him today, hear about his experience outside of me...so in conversation, I get to experience it when he shares, with him.

That's attention...and listen and repeat is attention...

and thanks to the poster who said to POJA the way we meet the EN for attention...

because "what would it take for you to be enthusiastic"...what delight, pleasure (foot rubs, special snacks, talking on the deck now that good weather has arrived), setting, timing, would get you enthusiastic?

For every half hour we spend talking, you get equal time playing video game/computer?

And during the attention time...you'll work on meeting Admiration simultaneously. You need that space to share your stored up appreciation and admiration thoughts of him, too.

LA

Lil,

We don't check boxes unless we want to check boxes.

We act and then we feel.

I feel good checking boxes...checking myself. And it's the only way I've trained myself to NOT react to my feels (refusing hugs and withdrawing).

The hug is good. Stands alone.

Touch, connection...feels good. And doing what you didn't think you felt like it, is an act of commitment...and then you feel connected, committed as a result.

Lil, do you wonder why your H talks himself out of meeting your EN for O&H? He knows. He's really smart. And an expert on you.

I'm asking this of you, Lil, when really, I'm just asking my DH. And the "talk himself out of"...well that was my Mother's Day..."I was going to get you a ring, but then I talked myself out of it."

Their struggle doesn't justify or excuse actions. Knowing their struggle, that they do, their process, however, is our job as their intimate. They struggle.

We struggle.

I think I need to focus on how much I talk myself out of...take another look at it.

LA

Nononono...this is bargaining, and this is setting up a scenario where your spouse is only giving you what you need in order to get what they want. Setting up a reluctant spouse. Encouraging them to feel like time spent is time served, and now they have freedom...when the end goal should be valuing your time together. That's what we want, right? It's what I want. I'm pretty certain that everyone here wants their spouse to value their time with them, make it a priority.

So why on earth would you dangle a freedom carrot? "If you do this with me, you can do this other without me..." kinda sends the message that you both know that time together is a HAVE TO, not a WANT TO...and want to is the goal, no? It also sends the message that you're okay with a 'time spent' spouse...I'm not okay with that. Are you, Jayners?

I have to agree with this 100%. This is one of my biggest struggles in my marriage. I just have no idea how to break this cycle. At all. This part is HARD.

When I wanted to talk with my husband (not about things, the house, TV shows, the cats, etc) I had to ask him to talk with me and turn down the TV and that it was important.

I do not know if this was the right way to ask.

How about this? I am lucky, because my H enjoys talking. Thing is, many nights he is so tired of talking because he has been doing it ALL day. I flirt with my eyes, body language, the tone of my voice "talk to me. Tell me something I don't already know". I make it a fun game instead of a chore. He knows I am not wanting to have a relationship talk, or in fix it mode this way - that I just want the pleasure of his conversation. It works for me, as long as he is not completely wasted from the day.

GDAR, i am going to try your technique.

My H said that he did not need conversation because he talked all day long at work and SH told him to get in another line of work if it prevented him from filling my needs. hehe.

Too funny! My H and I had this VERY conversation in counseling about 2 years ago and he was told something similar.

Now if there were some way to get them to listen to good advice...

I forget what we were talking about at the time, but I asked my H, "Have I ever tried to steer you in the wrong direction?" and he said no, he could not ever think of a time when I tried to push him into something bad for him. Yet he ignores what I say and listens to morons. wth? lol.

Get out of my head! My H will listen to his best friend (whom I admit I cannot stand) about life stuff and it always boggles my mind. The guy (bf) cannot get through the day without smoking weed or being drunk on cheap beer, but then complains every week about how broke he is and how hard it is to put food on the table for his wife and 2 yr old. Makes me sick! WHY would you listen to what this guy has to say on life? LOL

Your head must be getting pretty crowded by now!




I'm here, but today was the last day of school, kids got out early, etc etc etc. I'm trying to catch up and will post when I can. I love the discussion started by Gdar and Stella, yep let's work out a plan together!

BTW someone asked how I've tried to tell my H I wanted to talk. I pretty much usually come out and say something, like "I really need more conversation" or "I feel lonely, I need more communication" or something. Or tell him how I feel when he doesn't have time for me until the last 30 seconds before falling asleep. Or I'll simply try to just start a conversation myself.

Like last night. He was busy on the computer right up until he started getting ready for bed. I tried a lighthearted comment in the tasks/chores/finances arena, not emotions or relationships etc. I said, with a smile (although he wasn't looking so he wouldn't have known), "So, what shall we do with our tax refund?" (unexpected refund that just arrived) Him: "It's in the savings account for now." Me: (still with a smile) "Well, can I do whatever I want with my half?" Him: (tired and NOT smiling) "I don't wanna talk about it right now."

Stella, this technique has your name written all over it!

I dunno, I'm thinking...


I think I tried components of a 180. I'll have to refresh my memory exactly what a 180 would look like now.


Well, my closest friends right now are my dog ladies... <rofl... I get a kick outa calling them that... "What's another name for dog ladies, or lady dogs?" >
... a group of us, mostly women with a couple of husbands thrown in, who are training our dogs together. I've tried to limit my time with them especially when it's during a time that H would be home, like on weekends. But H says he's totally supportive of me doing this activity, and it isn't doing any good to hang around waiting for him to feel like interacting with me. With summer, the dog ladies are ramping up the activities and I'm agreeing to do more things. My kids may join in some of the things as well.

Last night, driving back from tracking/trailing, I felt the best I've felt in awhile: driving my little two-seater that I bought years ago (that is mostly H's car nowadays) with the top down, my dog right beside me licking my face, and singing "Sugar Sugar" with the radio...