Glad to hear it YEG! Keep working the Plan and keep your head up. Stay consistent and watch your expectations. This may take a while.

GREAT JOB YEG. You are in control and you are doing the best things for your M. KEEP IT UP.

Update.

First of all I got word back on my STD tests. im clean.

WW really hurt me on this though. I told her while we were watching a show that I had heard back from the Dr and the results. She said said she knew I would be fine but I needed to find out for myself. She then said she was anal about that stuff. I asked what she meant. She then told me that she had made me take the test prior to us having SF 8 years ago. I then asked she made him take the tests prior to her having an A. She said he had taken a round of tests after his M ended due to an A.

I just let it drop there but it really hurt me. It almost seemed to me that she had been PLANNING to have an A. Honestly i think she was just justifying her actions to herself but the thought that it was premeditated just made me a bit sick. I held it in though. I did bring up the conversation and its not like it matters anyway how it started.

It just hurts when she talks about it so matter of fact. There was no shame in her voice. Almost like she was proud for being so responsible cheating on me.

Anyways. Its not like telling the WW that cheated on you that you didn't catch sewer slime from their disquesting roll in the cesspool is ever an easy thing.

Earlier in the night we had a bump but I recovered nicely. I was asking her about her day and her plans for tommorow. she told me she was going out. I asked with who. Really wasnt trying to dig much into it. She spouted off ina quick sentance the people she was gonna be with and the times and locations. Then she gave me a disapproving half smile.

I just told her thank you for letting me know.

Rest of the night went pretty easy though. Sat on the couch and watched a show. No contact or anything but we chatted. She really is an funny person that i just enjoy playing around with.

She still wont commit to th weekend. I want to cook dinner for her with candlelight clear the table, sit in frion of her an sing More that Words,

Its hookey but it like to sing it for her, When that bombs Im going to cook her some asian inspired meal

Hopeflly she will love it. Im about to buy a great necklash taht monnny has been wantings.

Also looing for cruising, time ti get away,.

Have you already taken your Ambien for the night?

Keep up the good work.

You are doing great YEG. Keep your expectations in check. She did justify her actions to herself. They all do. They HAVE to, in order to carry it out. Sounds like you are doing an awesome Plan A. Keep it up.

"She then told me that she had made me take the test prior to us having SF 8 years ago. I then asked she made him take the tests prior to her having an A. She said he had taken a round of tests after his M ended due to an A."

Ask WW if she got to see the results of the STD tests. Also ask if WW was the only SF partner for the OM after he took his tests. And how WW knew what the OM said was true.

Yea its pretty obvious when I do that. Its funny rereading the post and you can see it degrade as I go on. Sad thing is the only reason I still take it is because I dont dream when im on ambien. Otherwise I just had nightmares all night about the OM taking my WW and child.


Of course she didnt. I already know that. She never saw mine. In all honesty I just told her I got tested as part of annual physicals in the military. I think it was true but id pretty much had said anything back then for SF.


Already know that. He was dating another girl he knew from high school and supposedly had SF within the last year. I remember her acting all jealous over it. Another sign I overlooked.

Because he told her and he would NEVER lie to her.

I know what she was saying was just justifying her conduct. "I knew I would never HURT my BH because the OM took a test." I know she just doesnt wanna believe that her actions could have hurt me. She knows how much she hurt me already and doesnt wanna think that her thoughtless actions could have permanently scar me.

I know its just babble. I expect it at this point but it still hurts me when I hear it.

BTW her parents are pushing her to take a round of STD checks. It will be a term of reconciliation in the future from me as well.

Another hoo hum night.

WW was in full force today. I got home and she was just kinda ignoring me. I tried to spark up a conversation but she just kinda blew me off. She did agree to let me take her and DD4 out to dinner. We had a decent time though she fakes happiness when she is around DD4. I think she might just have to get lubed up for conversation. usually after about an hour or so of me being home she will warm up a bit. Especially if I sucker her in with a subject we have a common interest in.

After we got back she stayed for a bit then left. She went to her parents house to spend the weekend. Ive been trying to get her to commit to dinner on saturday but she keeps saying I dont know like she has other plans. I tried to ask what they were but she wasnt giving me anything. She knows im watching and even when im just asking about her plans trying to spark a conversation she takes it as me snooping.

For example i asked her if she had big plans tonight. her answer was she was going to her parents house and would take her 5 minutes to get there. She invited me to call and check out her story.

i walked her out and told her she didnt hae to stay away this weekend. That she could stay with me. She just said "im going".

At that point I just walked back in the house so i wouldnt cry in front of her.

Even after all this crap I still am waiting for an ahh ha moment that i know will never come. Just waiting for her to click and realize what she has right here. it happened before when we were dating but I know it doesnt work that way.

My taker is just screaming for her touch. I just want her to hold my hand or give me some sort of sign. She is purposely holding back this weekend. I think she wants alone time to work through this in her head and she knows that I want to spend time with her. That or she is testing my resolve.

Steve Harley told me in the session that she is frozen. he said some people are terribly afraid of regrets. So they agonize over every decision and prolong it as long as possible. The cure he said was education. Leading her to buying into the "ideal scenario". That being a place that she is truelly in love with the father of her child and happy. Hopefully she will consider letting me make an appointment for her with Steve H.

I think I made the right decision calling off the D. I think WW wanted ME to D her. Do the dirty work for her. It would be a way she could justify D to herself. She could always say that she was doing it to make me happy and give herself the high moral ground. I think she is in a way trying to push me away from her with her actions as well. Testing me so to speak.

Im up to the challenge though. My DW may be gone but so is the WW's doormat spouse. She is really attracted when i bully her. She likes me saying no to her. She will say she will pay for something but backs off once I do it. Doesnt even really put up a fight anymore.

We did have a pretty good time shopping. Were looking at clothes for DD4. While she avoids having a relations with me ATM she definatly not troubled with having a relationship with my friends mastercard and visa.

I did by her a present today. Bought her a venetian glass necklace and matching earrings from the jewelry store. I knew she was going to stay at her parents so i actually left the necklace and a "thinking of you" card on her bed there. i called it a pre-anniversary gift. Our real anniversary is next month so I will give her the matching earrings then.

Also brought up the idea of a cruise together later in the year. She has ALWAYS wanted to go on a European cruise. Sent her the dates and details. She seemed intrigued by it. Of course no commitment but she is a needs freak and im sure the wheels are turning.

She is noticing the stuff im doing for her. She tells me thank you. Small victory but I gotta take what I get.

Saw my local personal therapist today. Told him about seeing Steve H. for marriage coaching and shared with him my plan. He said it was well organized and seemed impressed with my resolve not to take the easy way out. he asked me a couple of what if questions. Like what if the WW makes contact with the OM. in the end he knows im stuck in a holding pattern till the WW "thaws out" and makes a decision.

Im still confident that she will choose our M. The other option is just not that appealing. So much pressure from her side of the family and church not to D. She doesnt have the money to D me. Especially when I told her I would contest it and go bankrupt before I gave up. I think she will try to freeze me for a few more weeks then begrudgingly agree to recommit to the M. She will probably try to turn the tables on me but im not gonna bite. I have control and she recommits on MY terms.

Alright some questions-

Anyone have some counters for when I ask her her plans and she takes it as snooping? I've been just politely saying thank you and I appreciate her telling me. Thought someone else might have something better.

This is easy: Don't.

Become friendly, but no more. Don't ask her what she's doing, or where she is going.

You're too available. Be less so. Here's the 180. It's a good guide:

180 is a list of behaviors from Michelle Wiener Davis, the author of Divorce Busting, that will help your spouse to see you moving forward as a healthy person. I would highly suggest that any new BS begin these behaviors as soon as possible. I am convinced that if I had implemented them, I would still be married. In retrospect, I did everything besides 180. I looked pathetic. No one wants to be perceived as pathetic. 180 makes you look strong. Strong is attractive. (Making it)

So here's the list:

Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

No frequent phone calls.

Don't point out "good points" in marriage.

Don't follow her/him around the house.

Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.

Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.

Don't ask for reassurances.

Don't buy or give gifts.

Don't schedule dates together.

Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.

Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.

Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!

When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!

If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.

Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!

Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.

No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.

All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!

Don't be overly enthusiastic.

Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!

Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!

Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.

Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!

Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.

Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"

Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.

When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW."
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Disclaimer: The 180 is not an MB concept. But many BS have used it and liked it. I noticed immediate results (though I didn't have the strength and confidence to fight divorce).

But I implemented the 180 and saw an immediate reaction. Here's the text from another post:

Fundamentally, it is all about personal empowerment and rebuilding your self esteem. It is not about manipulating your spouse and when this is not understood it interferes with the results. The goal of the 180 is to become the type of person that you want to be. Here's what I understand to be the fundamental basis for it:

1) Master your thoughts.

Ultimately, you determine what thoughts you give attention to and those thoughts will set into motion the dynamics that will affect you. If you tend to focus on the negative you increase the probability that you will become your own worst enemy. It is important to realise how your thoughts create your expectations of the future. By increasing your positive focus you will increase the chances of bringing in positive energy to your life. This does not mean that you�re being unrealistic or naive. It simply means that you are choosing to focus your thoughts and energy on success instead of failure and on the good parts of your life instead of the bad. You want to cultivate the thoughts that you want to have through positive affirmation.

2) Adjust your attitude.

Our attitudes determine our thoughts which translate into intentions which leads to actions. We can be very realistic about the challenges we face, but still form the inner resolve to focus on our belief that we can overcome obstacles and bounce back from adversity. To do so takes belief and patience with ourselves, sustained motivation and energy, accepting our personal responsibility, and willingness to perservere. If your attitude is peaceful and positive then you are in the best position to have the focus and energy available to find solutions. Grace under pressure displays your courage and fortitude even when you are fearful and anxious.

3) Practice acceptance.

Acceptance is something to do for yourself when you are ready to let go of the anger. When we can't accept the situation, we have less energy to spend on the present because we are holding on to bitterness about the past. Acceptance does not mean condoning what has been done or passively enduring mistreatment. It means that you are ready to move forward unencumbered by bitterness or anger.

4) Look for the lesson.

Experiences can lead us to new growth, understanding, and maturity. It is important for us to examine and redefine these experiences to be able to discover and access our hidden strengths and resources that we didn't know we have and learn about ourselves.

5) Continue to nurture yourself.

Make a commitment to continue to nurture yourself so that your energy and vitality will remain high. You are not being selfish to honour your needs, but are providing new growth and fresh perspective.

6) Examine your character.

As humans we all have strengths and weaknesses. It is important to be able to do an honest self appraisal so that we can be real about ourselves. We are all responsible for our character, qualities, and actions and for the effects that they have. As conscious beings, we are also able to acquire those qualities that we desire and it is up to us to use them beneficiently.

So there you have it. My personal understanding of the conceptual basis of the 180. The above represents a strategy to take with our lives, and the 180 list provides us with the tactics. Keep the strategy and end goal in mind at all times and alter the tactics as necessary.

In the end, it's all behavior intended to get you to move to a healthier place. Right now she sees you as a lost puppy dog.

You want her to see you as a man.

I understand what your saying. Im trying to look strong even though i feel weak. I feel like a lost puppy dog.

I will incorporate some of the ideas though. I need to stop sweating her time on the computer and stuff. Need to stop sweating if she goes to her parents. not like she is meeting OM there.

Positive night. Its all relative I guess.

WW has been sleeping at her parents lately. The whole I need space to think stuff. Bleh. I did get to spend the day with DD4. We had a pretty good day though WW was off being introspective.

DD4 kept asked where mommy was. i told her mommy didnt want to stay with daddy right now. She thinks Mommy is just sad. From the mouth of babes. DD4 wanted to talk to her so I let her dial WW, MIL and Fil looking for them. Non answered so she left some pretty sad messages begging for mommy to come home. Don't like seeing my daughter suffer but WW needs to hear those calls.

I didnt call her all day. WW called looking to talk to DD4 which I just let her have the phone. I invited her to dinner which WW was noncommital about.

Glad she did because I had shopped all day to set up dinner. Candles, dessert and made one of her fav dishes. Finally WW called saying she would be there in a half an hour.

DD4 ended up staying so WW could see her. Derailed the romantic dinner plans I had but it was still pretty productive.

When DD4 had to go potty she told me she had gotten the present I had left for her at her parents house. She wasnt wearing it but she is going to wear it tommorow for church. I spent to much on it which she commented on. She also made the comment that she feels im trying to buy her back. I didnt admit to it but she isnt totally off base. She likes expensive things and loves jewelry though so its not like she is turning it away.

That led into a discussion about change. I talked about the belief system change Im undergoing. Told her that change without a belief system is temparary while this is not. She said she has noticed the difference. About that time DD4 came back and ended that conversation before i got to deep.

During dinner we got into the subject of our prior vacations together. We were reminiscing about a painting we bought in the room on that cruise. She said that was a great trip. I agreed with her. She also said that it felt like a lifetime ago. Cant argue with her there. I pointed out I think we have another great cruise in us. She didnt comment about that. I have planted the seed of going on her dream cruise later in the year. Just sent her some info on it and the days I can take off of work that match up with it in an email the other day. Its another carrot that she might take a bite out of.

I brought up some pictures we took on a past cruise. It was the first time we had SF. She commented that was the cruise that started it all. WW also said that felt like 2 lifetimes ago.

Rest of dinner went well. WW and DD4 got in a pie in the face contest. It was a genuine momment that we all shared. All i could think about though was how much id love to just kiss her with her face all covered in pie. I dont know if she read my mind or if I gave it away with the body language because she backed off a bit. At least I didnt make a move on her.

DD4 went to bed and we watched some shows together. It was one of WW favorite shows that I recently started watching. Kinda exploited the Rec companionship thing I little but I genuinely like it. She ended up staying 2 hrs.

After the first show I made her stop it. Told her I wanted to give her the other present. She tried to tell me I didnt need to do it. I just made her pause the show. Thats when i sang her the song that i had been practicing. Couldnt look at her when i sang it but singing was always a turn on for her. She thanked me for the song and I apologized for not remembering all the words. After that i just got back on the couch and we watched the next show. Didnt push my luck any.

When the show was over I knew she was leaving so i went in the kitchen to do dishes. Small victory for me because usually I aske her to stay and not leave. This time I just let her go upstairs and get her stuff. She told me she was going like she was just running to the store. I said ok and just walked her out to the car. She sat down and I closed her door for her and waved goodbye. No pathetic scene at the car this time. Im making small progress on the me front. I just turned and went back inside so if I was gonna lose it she couldnt see.

Overall a good night i guess. I kept my taker at bay and she left on a good note.

FIL called me earlier in the day as well. He is a very good ally and we talked about my frustration. He is frustrated too especially at the way its starting to affect DD4. He was hoping that WW would confide in her Mother today. Thats who she was spending the day with. My FIL is getting pretty upset at the fence sitting. He is tired of this limbo too. Probably shouldnt get him so involved in the process (oops almost said recovery. wishful thinking). He is a sympathetic ear who WANTS me to stay with his daughter and I dont have many of those.

Pretty solid plan A today though. I screwed up on a couple of spots but overall a good effort. Just wish that cured the pain i am feeling in my gut. My broken heart just hurts but writing about it helps.

That sounds positive YEG. I wonder if the presents and singing to her may be a bit over the top at this point? You know your wife better than anyone, but it seems almost a bit desparate. You may want to show her that you are going to be OK without her too.

I would tone it down a little bit. Just my opinion and overall, if it made you feel good to do it than so be it. I think bringing out the pics from the previous cruise was good. It's good to have her remember better times.

Expensive Presents are. Im learning from that though. That one was something DD4 really wanted to give her for mothers day and i didnt wanna drop the $$$ on it 7 days after D-Day when OM smell was almost still on her. Its was a 1 of a kind and I didnt want someone else to buy it. Should have held it off till our real anniversary next month though.

Wasnt a total negative though since one of the big differences between me and OM was the fact her always forgot her birthday and was cheap. Im sure the connection was lost though since she is still in the revisionist history phase.

I did focus some on this as well. Like the 180 stuff. In the past I said the changes I made were for her. Now I focus on them being for me and how they will help me in future relationships.


Good is relative. Its about long term gain. If I tell her i love her and I cant live without her that makes me feel better short term. Long term its a negative though since it makes me look weak and begging.

Overall I think im running a solid plan A. 1 key is learning from every interaction though. Im trying to do that.

Im also feeling pressure to make up for everything RIGHT NOW. I need to just calm down and let the Holy Spirit do his work. I really think God is working in my M. I just need to stop mucking it up with unwise attempts.

NEW DILEMMA

Decent day starting off. WW stayed night with parents. Nothing new there. She is basically leaving our house at 10 or 11 each night and just sleeping at her parents house. Dont like it but cant control it.

We met at church. Had a good sunday school. Subject was fervent righteous prayer. She also caught me praying when she came to church. All good things. Had the usual after church meal. Surprisingly she wanted to ride home with me. Also afterwards I asked her where she wanted to go. She said since you asked Id love to have a cup of coffee. I gladly took her to Starbucks and we walked around a bit.

Fast forward a bit. Im at home and I receive a text from her. Apparently one of DD4 favorite characters is comeing to an amusement park in WW college town next weekend. I reply back do you want me to get tickets. She says we will talk about it.

We talk later and she wants to go. We had already talked about going out of town this weekend. Here is the catch. Her college town is where she and the OM were visiting when I discovered the A a month ago. Its where she called me with him in the car and lied to me. Its the last place WW and the OM had SF.

Naturally that town is LOADED with triggers. From the PI calling me constantly, searching every motel room in town to the motel she actually stayed with him at.

Its also one of her favorite places in the world.

Ive decided if she is willing to go with me I will go with her. If we are to make a M of it eventually I will have to go back. Its also a very good opportunity to fill the Love bank. Travel is WW FAVORITE thing. Its a HUGE recreational interest of hers. DD will also be there so that will cut off any relationship talk. The draw of maybe even curling up with her at night is a huge incintive. If nothing else it will be the first time I have slept in the same room as her in months.

I always knew id have to revisit that place. I just always thought id have more time and maybe a re commitment to the M first. D-Day + 1 month is awfully soon.

Any thoughts on revisiting the Discovery Day location?

Has your WW wanted to do anything like this before? Would you consider taking DD by yourself? The reason I ask this is because your posts appear to be auditioning for her - the gifts, the singing, the dinner - now going to an Amusement Park for DD. It sounds fake to me - unless you've always done this sort of thing. If you have that's one thing. If not, your WW may see this as manipulative. I know I would.

If you can handle it without lovebusting, then do it. If you have any anti-depressants/anxiety medication, you might want to make sure you are on it.

You going with WW and DD is different then WW and DD going without you.

Go for it.

Her college town has always been a favorite place of hers. We have been dozens of times together. Even to the amusement park with DD4. We have been on several trips since D-Day and she has enjoyed them all.


Gifts are too much. Im toning those down.

Dinner was actually part of the love dare. I have cooked like this in the past so Its more a way of showing her the person that she has lived with for the last 2 years is gone.


Cant help but agree with you. In a way i am auditioning for her. Im also trying to show her the positive changes ive made in my life. Its a fine line that I know I cross.

I m very aware of the manipulative aspect of things. I am trying to counter that back cutting relationship talk, not following her around the house and stop trying to paw her every time we have a tender moment (keeping my taker on lockdown). VERY difficult task.

I am seeing some feedback though. She talked to her mom about the A and returning to the M a bit the other day. So she is reaching out a bit. The talk of "its too late. Not sure we can make it" has been notably absent. She has been coming around the house and even asking me to do things with her. Time is working its magic.


I can do that. I have been able to control LB quite easily. She hasnt really baited me into any fights. The pawing is the hardest thing to stop but Ive done that ok the last few days.

Upped my dosage of ADs. I got plenty so that will be no problem.


I will if she wants to go. Issue is she may have plans with her Mother that day that she already committed too. I'll just see how it plays out. Honestly Im just going to go and have a good time with the DD4. I'll focus my attention there. If WW wants me to meet a need (although just going is a huge one) I will do that.

Any more thoughts suggestion on revisiting the last place WW and OM were together? The D-Day Location?