Remember one thing:

You will not be sad anymore after two years.
If she is truly NC she will not miss OM at some point.

There is hope.

This sadness does not last forever.
She will not be attached to OM forever.

Hermetic NC is key to your success.

Here is her deal with going NC. She wanted to move back in the house. She didnt want to recommit to the M yet (still hasn't). I said OK but I would NOT tolerate her contacting the OM in anyway.

She agreed to those terms. She KNOWS im watching the house phone and her cell phone. Im also monitoring her car and computer without her knowledge.

I have only seen 1 incident of her doing anything close to inappropriate. She went to the OMs facebook page and read the comments. Didnt even look at the pictures. It showed her there 2 minutes. She did not send him any messages.

OM hasnt attempted to contact my WW. He knows im watching and I can push even harder at his job.

As always though I cant monitor every route of contact. The search for A phones yielded nothing. So right now she is maintaining NC, I just would feel more comfortable if she would talk to Steve Harley.


I know I need patience, time and consistency. An empty promise of recommitting to the M isnt what I want. I think she knows that and that is why she is holding off. She has had moments of clarity. She is acting more and more human.

Maybe alot of this melancholy is just a hangover effect from the last 2 horrible years. It was just so bad for so long. Now I know the problem and I just want to FIX it. I know its a long process by now. Just kinda wish she would throw me a bone every once and a while.


I know it wont. I just hope she just decides she wants to put in the work and rebuild instead of just tapping out of the M and starting over. I know its unlikely and I shouldn't feel that way. I just worry.

Sad thing is I KNOW all the answers to this crap. I KNOW what id post to someone else that was dealing with this. Its just seeing the long term solution and not acting on short term gains.

You have a keylogger. Block OM's facebook page. Even pseudo-contact like that can set back withdrawal. It's like an alcoholic drinking nyquil or listerine because it's the best thing they've got.

IF this continues AND you continue to make love bank deposits, you will see some progress in a month or two.

Hmm not a bad idea. I thought about logging onto her Facebook and defriending him. See if she sent him a new facebook friend request. Kinda like a little test.

I dont wanna give away the KL though. So ill just block the myspace page with my router.


I know. It just seems SO LONG. I know in the grand scheme its not though.

My lawyer is gonna be calling me tomorrow. Gonna have to hear an earful about pulling the plug on the divorce. She thinks im crazy to let her off the hook without WW making serious improvements first.

Im doing the right thing though. I wanna treat my WW with love and respect. Not threaten her with the hammer of divorce.

Is she your lawyer or your mom? Seriously? She seems to be a little too personally attached to this.

She is concerned because the lawyer has seen this path before. She says typically it will last about 6 months then the guy is back in her office again having to hire another PI to prove an affair.

The lawyer wants to give good council I think and protect me financially. Im just not willing to divorce my wife to be 100% safe then try to date her again. There is no amicable divorce.

She thinks im just setting myself up for failure given the duration of the A.

In the nd its my wife and my life though. So if I want to not get divorced thats what im doing. Especially since im not putting timelines on myself.

Your doing well YEG. About the 'neediness' though, at least you now seem to recognize that you are doing it. Try to pinpoint the exact moment you lower your boundry and just before that point, go to the store for something. Anything. Just get away.

My Guilt



Been happening alot lately. I think i figured out the reason.

I feel terrible about the way I treated my WW in the past. I went on the road as a contractor when she needed me most. She has a newborn at the time, she needed me and i wasnt there for her. That was the crack that the snake snuck in.

My wife was desperate for support from anyone. I CHOOSE not to give it to her. I didn't know what i was doing then. Why couldnt i have just took the time to learn about my marriage then?

The WW and i had a long talk tonite. I asked her what she was thinking about. basically looking to direct her to Dr. Harley. She told me that she was deciding if she is willing to give it one more try. She tried before. She asked me for help SOOO many times. I ignored her pleas. Only know when I find some OM has snuck into her life do I get concerned. Only when threatened with D do I take action. I just feel VERY guilty and VERY sorry about my past actions.

She also told me that we were pretty much in the middle of our last chance. If I hadnt have already made changes in my life she would be out the door. That hurt. Its not just all wayward speak either. I ignored her for so long. I put my career and happiness ahead of hers. There is a reason I feel terrible. I should. I feel just as wayward as she does.

Dont get me wrong. She told me she is sorry for the A. She knows she did wrong. Its not like she is saying my actions justified it. She told me that I didnt cause the affair. That I didnt push her into it. She went into it on her own. That doesnt stop me for feeling like I pushed her into the arms of another man. I did in alot of ways. I ignored the warning signs. I ignored her begging for help. She didnt verbalize it but I knew my wife.

I hope I sincerely never forget this guilt though. I want to be the man she needs SO much now. I KNOW I love her. I know that I have to put effort into my M. All I want is another chance to show her.

Im about 90% sure she is going to recommit to the M at this point. She has shown zero interest in the OM since D-Day. In retrospect it almost looks like it was the rare event that the fog lifted when i exposed. She isnt judging me between him and I. She is judging me by my past action.

I know that the since she was involved in the EA/PA I didnt have a real shot. I could have stopped it way before then though. I just didnt take care of my buisiness so somoene else stepped in to take care it for me.

Im more certain than ever i need to back off some. She has asked me for space to decide I need to meet that need. She has told me that we are already in our last chance (which means she hasnt given up yet) and that she still loves me. She has basically agreed to NC. She is just wary that once she recommits ill go back to my old ways. I cant blame her.

I NEVER want to be that person again. My family needs to be the most important thing in my life. I need to put her needs ahead of mine and let her make her decision instead of constantly hounding her. Its hard enough as is.

Its probably a good thing i dont get off so easy and have to pay this penance to win her love back. Maybe ill remember this later. That way ill treasure every moment I have with her in the future instead of taking it for granted.

YEG,

I know and understand what you are talking about regarding guilt. Hindsight makes us 20/20. Regardless of how bad you were as a husband- you did not cause her to stray. She chose that path and it is NOT because you made her do it. I'm not saying you were an angel and I'm sure you have many faults pre-A.

Your WW had 3 choices when faced with your innattention.

1. Confront you and separate if you didn't change.
2. Divorce you due to your lack of giving or whatever you want to call it.
2. Maintain status quo.

Having an affair is NEVER an option in a marriage. You are not at fault for her choices. Sure, your failings as a husband probably helped to set the conditions to make an affair possible, but it was NOT the cause. At worst, you are 50% responsible for setting conditions. But that's it. Bottom line is that it was a decision your WW made herself, and she needs to reap the consequences of that decision.

Now, if and when she chooses to work towards rebuilding the marriage- that is where you continue to show your improvements and understanding of your own shortcomings and work TOGETHER to prevent those conditions from presenting themselves again.

That is my take anyway. I feel very strongly about this because I too was not the best husband to my WW. I wasn't horrible either, and I'm positive you were not either. I admittedly took her and her love for granted and I will forever be sorry for that (and I have told her this). Short of real abuse, the act of adultery is never deserved. Probably not even then. She had the right to leave you or end the marriage. She didn't have the right to bring another man into your marriage. Got it??

As Dr. H says, ALL of us are wired to have an affair. It is a choice that each wayward makes on their own however. It took me a while to get this too. In fact, early on I think I enabled her affair by taking all the blame of our problems due to my own guilt as a husband. Looking back, I now KNOW that I was a good husband. Just not as good as I should or could have been. I personally take zero percent of the blame for the affair, but I own up to 50% of our problems pre-affair. I have learned so much from MB and other sources, I could never go back to living like that again.

By the way, my MIL shared an article about the 'walkaway wife syndrome' that she found. I really think it fits my situation almost too well. I posted it on my thread, but will share it here too because I have a feeling that you may see many similarities too. If you do, maybe this might be something to share with your wife.

Either way, I'd be interested to hear what you think about it.

Walkaway Wife Syndrome

WW told me the same thing.


Honestly I dont think im responsible for her deciding to have the A. That was her decision and she told me as much. I really did set the stage for it though. The A was wrong. But its almost like a symptom of the larger underlying problem. The REAL problem was me not taking care of her and meeting her needs when I should have.


She is facing those consequences. She knows if she walks now she walks away with little to nothing. She has no job, will be barred from alimony and likely face reduced child support due to losing her job for cause. I think these will help give me that one more chance.

I think if she recommits she will recommit completely to the process. Its literally our last shot. We both know we are teetering on the edge of D.


I understand she didnt have the right. I almost think I deserved it. It took something that hurtful and that drastic to wake me up. Even when I smelt the A going on I choose to ignore it. It wasnt till she lost her job that I snapped out of it.

I sometimes think that God was trying to wake me up for years. I just wasnt listening. Now only after she has given up and doesnt need me anymore do I make changes. My actions just make me sick. Especially since I knew I wasnt doing what she needed but was too greedy to change first. I put it all on her.


I took care of her financially. I ignored her biggest needs though. Thats my fault. I reluctantly helped around the house some and with DD4.


I wont ever do that again. I wont forget the A. I also wont forget my faults either. I want to give my wife unconditional love. Something I never did before.


Im going to give you my take on it. I have to start class though. Ill post up later.

Thanks SOL. I appreciate you chatting with me about this stuff.

Mine didnt happen quite that way. It was a significant event (having a baby) that changed our marriage. She asked me to do stuff but I didnt. THe end result was the same though. After a couple of years of asking she checked out.


She would occasionally ask me for help. Eventually after she checked out thats when the OM checked into her life. She just did that instead of push for a divorce.


She knows that walls there. She is worried about opening up to me again. Its tough for her. She feels she wasted years on me changing. Only now when she doesnt need me anymore is she seeing those changes.

The article is pretty much dead on.


Its what Im doing. I think she will give it another chance. I look forward to the work though. I want the love of my life back.

Thanks for the link

I'm glad you found some things in common too. I agree about the 'steps towards divorce' not being right on. I think in our cases, our WWs took the steps to allow the affair. I think working towards divorce on their part would have been better. I thought it was a very good article too.

I gotta say that I read this entire thing, and it took me two days, but it answered a lot of the questions that I have had about Plan A and such. Thanks for posting your experiences.

I had the same situation present itself in that I was in the middle of a legal proceeding and we were "thinking" of working things out. There was a "Rule 11" agreement that we could both agree to to put things on temporary hold for a while. You have to realize that a lot of things in a divorce don't actually include a judge if you can both agree on the issues. It might be possible in SC, I'm not sure. Might be worth checking out.

In my case I had the PI info, and records and testimony and such, and it ended in me basically getting everything. The house, the kids, child support...This was a far greater motivation, it seemed, for my WW to consider working things out, than shutting down everything and showing her some bold move that proved my love for her. This might or might not be MB, but is my personal experience.

It is really hard to trust a person's motivations and things especially when you are talking about property and legality, and such. I respect that it's terribly hard on you as well.

I have to say that I am envious of your tenacity and willingness to accept the wisdom that has been offered by all the very knowledgeable people behind you on this board. I wish that I had done things a bit differently...exposed "nuclear" and been less emotionally volatile.

One thing that I have noticed recently is the fact that you seem to be crumbling within yourself with the pain of losing this battle. I hope that you do not give up, but I would agree wholeheartedly with the 180 advice that you have been given. It would bring some sanity to you as well. People want what they can't have typically. Show her love and such, but def. do some things without her that make her a bit jealous. Skydive, fish, something completely out of the ordinary. When she learns about it, just tell her that if she wants to come you will let her know next time and she can come, but you didn't think she was into that sort of thing. This drove my WW completely nuts. Ina good way. I got so used to doing the laundry, the bills, the yard, that I found myself completely boring compared to the guy that she would go out and party with and sleep with all night. I didn't used to be that way, but over time, I was!

It will give you some self confidence. It will make you interesting. Sure you might think or her the whole time, but trust me there will be another time that you can take her.

Sooner or later she will realize that this affair was completely a mistake. My WW was severly beaten by OM one night after they had a fight. That officially ended their relationship, even though I didn't really play all the cards right. You never know...Esp. when God is guiding you. He can keep your way straight even when you don't know where you are going!

You have a good level way of approaching this situation and I think it will work out...But I personally don't know how to handle the legal aspects of the situation. What I chose was to go through with the divorce, and then if she chose to work things out, then we could when I held all the cards. That's just me. Typically the person who files first has the most control over the situation, and with her income not supportive of a legal battle...well...There has to be some way to postpone things w/o closing the book on the whole thing.

Good luck bro!

Thank you for taking the time to read it. If the pitfalls I fell into help anyone else its worth it.


To the best of my knowledge there is little interaction with the judges in SC after the temparary hearing. If parties agree they rubberstamp the agreement. Mediation is required in SC.


Whats done is done for me. It isnt just a olive branch to the WW. God hates divorce and I wanted no part in it. If she pursues it then i will fight her till the end.

I dont want to use it as a hammer. Its a leap of faith but one I made.


just wish i had knew about this stuff when my M was falling to pieces. There is no instruction manual for this stuff.


The uncertainity in my life is taking its toll. Every night I watch her walk out is pain for me. The guilt I feel is horrible as well. I do blame myself for letting the cracks develop in my M. Its just such a heavy load to bear. Im seeing fruits but until she has recommitted herself I cant rest.

The OM as far as i can tell is out of the picture now. Its just me and her. She just isnt sure she has another enough energy left to try it again. She spent so much over the years. I should be happy with the effort she is putting in I know but I want my wife back. I want our chance at recovery.


She already regrets it. I honestly think that when i busted her so completely and the massive exposure that I made her do killed the fantasy completely. They both knew the party was ending soon anyways since he was transferring overseas.

Im completely willing to forgive and move forward. I just want her to come with me.


I trust God with my burdens. I think he is watching out for my M. It still hurts to see her walk out every night even if it is just to her parents house. I have prayed for hours for God to give me patience, and to touch my WW heart. I have prayed that her carries these burdens for me since I can feel myself buckling.

I wont give up on my wife. It just brings me to tears that she gave up on me. Now Im fighting years of inattentiveness to bring her back home,


Im sorry she went through this. Im glad she had you to depend on.


Well its tied up atm. I wont serve her papers. My lawyer is seeking a continuance that hopefully they will grant without her being served. If not I will drop the complaint (probably lose my grounds as well since it will be interpretted by a judge as forgiveness). If not I will have 60 days from the date of filing the complaint to serve her. That puts me early August. Hopefully by then it will be a non issue. Im not going to continue on though with the process though since God hates divorce.

Report from the WW college town.

First of all she went. DD4 talked her into going rather than coming up today. She insisted on getting her own room though.

Decent ride up there. She was fairly withdrawn though.

We get to the town i had to drive right by the hotel I busted them in. I just stared it down though. I refused to look away. My stomach dropped though when i saw it. I kept wondering what room they were in.

The town itself was a non issue though. So many good memories that the bad ones didnt overwrite it. We talked about some of them too. The A barelly came up all weekend.

Good day at the park with DD4. We had alot of fun. ALso ate at the WW favorite restaurants. On the way back she was gonna stop at a high end asian resteraunt. She asked me if it would be ok if we just did osmething small in Ikea's cafeteria instead.

I told her "Id go with you anywhere". She thanked me for saying that. She said it was one of the sweetish things ive said to her since I wasnt trying so hard.

One big event though. After she had said good night last night she closed the door (our rooms were connected). I immediatly just started praying and reading my bible. I also ended up crying. It happens alot after she leaves me for the night. She ended up coming back in to check on the DD4 and caught me though. I broke down.

We ended up having a long talk (didnt really want to do relationship talk but had to at this point). I told her how much I was hurting and how hard this was on me. I also told her my guilt. She said it wasnt my fault at all for the A. She also told me that she was just as wrong as me during the M. Didnt make my pain go away though. Also told her about my feelings about God. She understood. She told me that she believes the changes I made in life are real. She just doesnt know if she can go through another recovery attempt. That is really hard to swallow. My cp is running over with motivation about the M. The though that she could give up is crushing.

She says she doesnt wanna stay at the house with me because she doesnt want to put me and DD4 though any unneccessary pain. If she comes back she wants to be committed to me. She doesnt wanna come back and get my hopes up just to dash them in a few weeks if she cant get motivated and just quits. She also doesnt wanna confuse DD4 by moving in and out.

So im still in the misrable holding pattern. I cant do anything but let her work it out in her own mind and trust in the Holy Spirit to touch my wife. Thats what im praying for. I want this to work out and I dont wanna live my life without her.

Also the WW told me she had read the copy of SAA I had given her. She doesnt believe in it like I do but she read it. Not sure what that means. Trying to push her towards the program right now is a LB. There will be a time for that just not yet.

It is allowed when adultery is involved.

Yes. Good point. I appreciate that YEG is hoping to save his marriage, but God will not be against him if he can't save it. And God is not against any BS who choses divorce on the grounds of adultery. That points to the devastating effects of it...that God would allow a marriage to be end over it.

I have the right to do so but I am not exercising my right. There are many stories of forgiveness in the bible. I want to forgive my wife and honor my vows. I want to protect my family.

Im "all in" as some say.

on another note I really have to find a better way to deal with my personal guilt and neediness. TOO MUCH RELATIONSHIP TALK. I have to find a way to limit it.

I think I am going to have to designate a day in my mind to talk about it. Just force myself to hold back till then. I dont want it pushing my WW farther away to lighten my burdens.

Hey, Yeg, everyone here respects what you want. I had to come to grips that it wasn't something that I could MAKE happen or fix...There is another person here in this equation. Everything is probably going to work out the way it should, esp. if you give it up to God, like it seems like you are trying to do.

This process was complete hell on me, and I'm sure it has been for many others, hence the need for the anti-depressants and tears and counseling...Sometimes it still is terribly difficult months later.

I'm more coming from a perspective of your personal well being. I am encouraging you to find some kind of an outlet. I completely relate to your feelings of trying so hard and being so focused. This is a complicated game of chess now. You have a wonderful set of educational tools, and after a bunch of matches (figurative) you will ultimately prevail. It might not be exactly as you expect it to be though because each game is different and each victory or loss is going to be different.

I found those same sets of passages in the Bible...the main focus should be peace. God also says in heaven there is no marriage or divorces...

Seriously...go tire yourself out somehow. I bought a workout DVD set and put all my aggression and frustration into it, just so I could sleep at night! I lost tons of weight and get tons of attention now. It's a HUGE confidence booster. Ultimately, you don't want to come across as someone with no options, relationship wise. It's kinda like dating again. The marriage factor normally takes people who are dating a while.

For me its six months later, we are divorced, and living together. Our relationship is better than it ever has been. It was like we got rid of the old crappy one and got a new upgraded one. Not really what I would like to have happen, but things work out in weird ways. If a man's steps are from the Lord then how can he know his path?

Just don't force it, or smother her. Just be like Fonzie...Cool...all girls like that!


__________________________________________________________
Me (BS) 32
Her (WW) 34
Married 12 years
DD8, DS10, DS12 in my custody
Divorce Final Jan 2010
NC w/ OM since Feb
Status - In remission prognosis good

I got to think it will. MIL and FIL appreciate what Im trying to do. My parents understand but wish I would do it concurrent with the legal process.


yeap. On pristiq 100mg, a marriage couch, personal psychiatrist. There is nothing I can do about it either. I just have to stay in pain till she makes up her mind.


I am running again. Ran 3.4 miles yesterday. Ive lost 20 pounds and at least 2 inches off my waist. Its tough because if I do stuff I dont see DD4 as much. Often after DD4 goes to bed the WW asks me if I wanna watch TV or something with her. I want to put in the time and meet her needs so I do that. Its tough.


I honestly dont know what Im going to do if she says she is done. All signs have indicated that she is willing to try once again. I think she is just seeing if the changes I made are real (kinda testing me) and doesnt wanna rush into a recovery to quick.

If she goes the other way I just dont know.


Im going to look for those. I need that.

WW was reading Leviticus the other day. She made the comment that women are not highly thought of. She had a few passages highlighted on strength.


Well im off the Ambien. Thats a good sign. Work is what it is.


Facts are what they are. I will survive. I make a very good income for SC and will be a caring, considerate mate for someone. I would like for that to be my WW but if she doesnt thats ok. I will likely file again and go plan B.


Its tough. Im definitely not judging anyone else s path.

Thanks for chatting. It does help.