I have received a lot of support from the exposure. In fact, everyone is telling her to leave OM and work on her marriage except 2 people. OM and her best friend (we will call her EN for enabler) I can't legally change the locks and throw her stuff out. She can't move back in with her mother. One of her sisters has moved into the available room while she is waiting to close on a house. The kids are dealing with the situation the best that they can. They are confused and hopeful that things will work out for the best. I'v been advised she won't be able to get the house. I am trying to be somewhat careful what I say here because WW has been to this site before. I don't think she intends on coming back, but I want to be cautious. She has been looking at houses and apartments in our school district. She can not afford them though even if they move in together. He has never been married and has no kids. I know this for several reasons. (I talked to his mother, I went to high school with him so I know many people that know him, he moved back here and no one came with him, his mother mentioned a long term relationship that ended badly a while back)I am concerned about this guy being around my daughters. Apparently he was away for "30 days" before he moved here. It was interesting that this was the term that both he and his mother used. Not gone for a month but "30 days". I was told by both it was none of my business where. Only 3 options I can think of: 1. drug treatment 2. mental institution 3. jail. My fear is that it was a drug treatment facility and it was not court ordered. So I may never be able to find out because it is protected by HIPAA

jmwc - She moved out the day I exposed and I hadn't yet allowed the carrot and the stick to work together. At that point she was saying she was going to think about things. So filing at that point didn't make sense. My original question was should I give up. I take it your answer is yes. If i file for separation and/or divorce, that is the end. I have wanted to have the face to face meeting with OM but not sure I can control my temper if this happens. I'm not trying to be a tough guy, I just know that this confrontation would likely end badly. So until I get my emotions somewhat in check, I will have to put that meeting off. How do I enforce boundries? I can't physically stop her from doing anything. This weekend I took the car keys to prevent her from going out with EN to a cookout where he was going to be. I went to drop DD12 off at a friends and EN picked her up.

All- I want everyone to know I am not trying to give reasons why I can't do what anyone is reccommending. I am just trying to get everyone up to speed as to what I have thought of/ looked into/ done. I will say, even after all that has happened I want to save my marriage.

I am not going to put words into Jim's mouth, but I don't think he meant for you to give up ALL hope. It is advised to BH's ALL of the time to file because you need to protect yourself. You need to protect your access to your children and your assets. And no, Plan B is NOT about giving up. If you have been lurking for as long as you say, I am sure that you already know, MOST affairs end within 2 years of exposure. That is PART of the reason for Plan B. The BS waits out the affair. There is also to part about us being removed from the drama of the affair. And the BENEFIT of becoming a stronger, better person.

But I digress. You need to pull of an excellent Plan A and figure out how to get her out of the house

No, I was not suggesting you to give up. Instead I was suggesting you exposure her to the full consequences of her actions and give her a brief glimpse of what divorced life would look like. Not too many women would want to lose custody of their children and be stuck paying child support. If you could have done that, she would have been pissed, but she would have likely hit rock bottom and agreed to end her affair. A lot of times the WS needs to hit rock bottom before they change their ways and break their addiction. I was just suggesting less carrot and more stick. You want to make getting a divorce seem like the worse option. That means cutting her off financially among other things.

In your instance, I would just drive to the cookout with some of your friends (to keep you from doing anything stupid). I like the taking of the keys. Any affair phone you need to smash (or a lighter approach is to remove the SIM card). Block OM's number email address. Basically, lock down your house from OM. Also, interfere as much as you can if she tries to meet him in person. Bring your digital recorder, and get him doing/saying something stupid.

Hire a PI and have him figure out what happened on those "30 days" away. Dig up dirt on OM as best as you can. Use it against him. Push his buttons. Pushing OM's buttons is not a love buster for your WW and it will likely make him love bust your WW. He'll push her to move forward with the divorce even though she isn't ready to. This is what you want, to cause trouble in paradise.

Also, get with a lawyer and strategize how to get primary custody and a favorable financial settlement in case things don't work out AND to make divorce seem less attractive to your WW. I'm sure she has a complete fantasy in her head about how divorce would go. Burst that bubble.

Still - Is it cake eating if she won't let me provide any of her EN's. No affection, no conversation, no sf, won't hear admiration. She distances herself if she feels me getting close in any way. This is much worse since OM has moved to town. At this point i am very low on hope.

Jim- I hear what your saying regarding showing her what divorce will really look like. The problem is, If i file for divorce, i will end up divorced. I don't want that, though i see that it may be unavoidable. It can't be a bluff though.

I did destroy the affair phone. The problem is, she had switched sim cards with her regular phone. So i destroyed the wrong card. This allowed her to keep the affair phone number which is billed on EN's plan. ( I just realized EN should stand for emotional need so I'll refer to her as BF from now on)So I no longer have access to her phone records.

Get a replacement SIM card, and destroy the other card.

If you file for divorce, you won't necessarily end up divorced. Not if you have the upper hand and the terms aren't to her liking. You have currently lost the upper hand. If you don't want to end up divorced, then I would have originally filed for legal separation if you state allows.

List of ENs:

Affection
Sexual Fulfillment
Conversation
Recreational Companionship
Honesty and Openness
Physical Attractiveness
Financial Support
Domestic Support
Family Commitment
Admiration

I am fairly certain you are still meeting the need of financial support and family commitment, and depending on what you do at home, probably domestic support as well. If OM is as big of a loser as you suggest, he won't be able to provide the same financially as you. He also probably won't be called "daddy" by your kids anytime soon and be running them around to their different activities and having "family time" with them. Right now she still has you to meet those needs and the OM to meet her other needs. I've got news for you, financial support and family commitment are two of the most important needs for women as well as two of the most difficult to meet. Your WW won't realize how much she misses these needs being met until you are no longer there to meet them. That could start sinking the relationship. Part of plan B is throwing your WS into her lover's arms and saying, "Okay, good luck trying to meet ALL her needs," and waiting for the relationship to die.

My state allows legal separation but both parties have to agree. If I file for separation she can change it to dissolution on her own.

I am meeting her needs of family commitment, and domestic support. I am only partially supporting her financially. I am doing my best to make her pay her own way because she is using her money to pay a lawyer. So I have refused to buy groceries, pay her car payment, phone, and insurance. I also only pay for half of the kids extracirricular activities. Though she has never told me, her #1 need is conversation. Clearly this, affection, and admiration have to be high because OM was able to become her soulmate just by talking on the phone.

Well then, try and cut off all contact as much as possible so he cannot meet that need very much.

hi sot, sorry you find the need to post here,
Should you give up of course not, you love your wife and you are willing to fight till the end for her...
Keep trying to meet her needs tell her you love her no matter what she has done and that you would be willing to work through your problems if she would commit to your marriage.....
If she can't do this then ask her to leave and find somewhere else to live that it's just to hard on you and the kids to stay together....
If she wants her freedom she can have it....
Let her see the OM for what he really is, all his faults will quickly come to the surface when every day life takes it's toll.
Hard as that may be it's your only chance to save your marriage....
Let her feel the brunt of her decision to leave you and your family for someone else...
Right now she is seeing him when she wants, you are still letting her live there with her kids, why would she change things for now...
Show her the man she fell in love with.....be strong move on with your own life, show her you are not the doormat she now thinks you are....
It's not giving up, it's being patient and letting the fog she is in lift and leave her so she can get her brain back again.....
See what life is out there for you.....tell her if she wants to leave then let her move on with the OM if that's what she wants to do.....
Talk to a lawyer and get things going, show her you will not put up with her seeing someone else while you are married to her.....
Let's see if she really thinks the OM is worth destroying her family for.....
Make her make that decision.......make her be the one to be accountable for the decision to leave her family......
good luck, be strong, look at the plan in the long term not just the stress you feel in the short term,,,,,,,

I'll do what i can. The problem is she is pushing me to react and when i do she uses it as justification for her leaving me. So when she was going to meet him, I LB'd by AO and some DJ's and she was able to walk away feeling like she was doing the right thing. How in the world can I fight with her about the affair without LB'ing? I know its probably possible, just not sure if I can do it. The other issue is that one of our big problems was about control. So every attempt I make to stop her from doing anything is seen by her as an LB. Its a catch 22. Can't let her go, but what can i do to stop her.

jessi - thanks for posting. I agree with what you are saying. I guess i don't question the strategy just not sure what tactics to use. I have asked her to leave, she won't. She wants the kids at least half the time and I suspect she may be planning on going for full custody. I think she came home at a lawyers suggestion, so I don't think she is leaving unless advised to. I have been told that this situation will likely not be changed by the courts until a D is final.I also think that a D will get really ugly really quickly. So after all the fighting what would be left of our M? On the other hand, i don't want to make a D easy for her and give her what she thinks she wants. I know Jim is right that if I would have filed for separation when she was gone I would have been better off. Hind sight is 20-20.

sot,

I have not read all of this thread but do your children know of her Affair? If not they each should be told in an age appropriate way. She is destroying their family and they need to know that this is happening so that they are not blindsided.

God Bless,

JL

sot,
Look I think this is what I would do, since she is lost in the affair fog and will not listen to any reasonable thinking.....
Go to a lawyer yourself and figure out what your game plan will be if she files and takes you to court....can you work out a deal by yourselves?
Then in the meantime since you don't want to separate or divorce be the man she would consider changing her mind for, this will be tough, but accept her decisions and go on with your life, be happy, work on yourself, spend time with your kids, take part in your hobbies and just show her you are going to enjoy life.
when she is around include her and show her that spending time with you and her kids is a safe and happy place to be.....
It will take time and will seem like it's going at a snails pace, do little things for her, brush against her skin, touch her shoulder,arm.....soft warm gestures......
Ask her for a hug once in a while, tell her you feel bad and it will keep you calm and together.......she might feel guilty enough to go for it, that little bit of physical contact could awaken something in her again.......what have you got to lose....
Let home be her safe place to be....
Don't worry about the OM, the affair will wear it's self out on it's own, affairs are based on fantasy not real life.....read the odds of it working, something like 7% or less........the odds are in your favour......
If she doesn't end up going she will remember a loving, kind man who was willing to accept her for all her faults......
When the affair crashes around her, she will think of you.....
Long term my friend........you can do this.

The kids must be bold that mom is dating the OM.

As to EN/BF..... TF-toxic friend.

Just Learning - The kids know. The older two are up to date as to what is going on. DD-7 knows but not really any details. They have also all deduced on their own TF's (thanks road i'll use that) role in the destruction of our family. I have not talked to them about that but they are smart kids.

Jessi- What you described is basically what I'm currently doing. I don't think i can continue to do it if she flaunts her adultery in my face. So I'm sorta stuck because I can't implement a sudden plan B. If I file, it will take literally months to get her out of the house.

Last night I tried to continue Plan A and she continues to be angry with me. That is the part that is so confusing. I haven't done anything, how in the world is she angry at me? Anyway, I just stayed calm, and tried to maintain a conversation with her. It's difficult when she texts with TF the whole time we are talking. I tried to help around the house and show appropriate affection, but nothing is penetrating the fog. This weekend we will be out of town together for DD12's sporting event. It should be an opportunity to spend some time together. She has no where to hide .

She made a comment last night that has my stomach in knots today. While texting TF she mentioned going on a camping trip. I said she couldn't seriously think that would be ok given our current situation and she explained that I had no control her and she would do what she wants. My guess is that they will plan it in the upcomming weeks. Anybody have any ideas about how to handle that one?

You and the kids would LOVE to go camping with her. Put GPS on her car, and when she ditches you and goes out there, you and the kids can go out there. I'm sure OM will be invited, so you and the kids can crash their wonderful party.

I figured that would be the answer I would get. She will likely go in TF's car, so not much chance in trackting her. I'm sure I will threaten to bring the kids along and follow them. She may not care. At this point she no longer sees right from wrong. I'm really struggling coping. My emotions are swinging wildly moment to moment. From anger to dispair. I love my DW so much. I wish i could find her. This crazy person that she has become is disgusting and I know my DW would agree. I fear that the change may be permanent. I know when she speaks its all fog. But she's pretty convincing. When she says that she never loved me, and that she wanted a D anyway, maybe she is right. The way she is acting now, I doubt she will want to recover the marriage even if the affair ends.

That's her addiction to the OM talking. If OM is out of the picture, her behavior will change a lot. You can't possibly know unless the OM is out of the picture.