He just responded with a lie.

Hi Gdar,

I think that asking for feedback might have been more helpful BEFORE you sent the e-mail.

It's hard for me to invest in thinking it through with you when it's already done.

At this point, you said what you wanted to say. Hopefully his reaction is good.

Unfortunately, your letter was SO HEAVY it did not give him much room.

Your very last line is laden with pressure and judgment, do you see that?


How is he supposed to respond to that?

In fact, what kind of response are you expecting here at all?

I think you should post in SAA, gdar. They have far more experience. Frankly, I would think he is completely in the dark about what you want from this letter.

What was the lie? That he's had no contact with her?

I agree. I am not very good at communicating with out that, and to be honest, that was the best I have done in a while. I am just SO upset about the lying and the cycle it creates.

The lie is in regards to the trip with his friends. He does not know that I saw the text conversation between he and his friend (the liar).

His friend asked him to go back to their college town, 4 hours away, for an overnight to get drunk and hang "old school". My H mentioned this to me, but said "X wants to head back to College Town overnight to hang old school, but I am NOT interested at all". What he actually said to his friend was he was not interested in going for ONE night, but for TWO, because it is such a long drive for just a one-nighter. Then his friend told him to lie to me and say they were going camping.

His reply in reference to my email on this subject was:

I need a release from all the stressors and I miss my friends. Going CAMPING with them is not trying to cheat, it is just me trying to get away from the stress".

In reference to the OW, I believe him. He said he would not even be in the building and all he did was fascilitate an area for the Meet N Greet, but that someone else will be in charge. I checked his schedule, he is not lying. He will be offsite at a meeting.

His reply

I appreciate you letting me know how you feel. These are really hard for me to read at work though. As you know, X is out all day and I am absolutely in over my head. Then I get your email and my heart sinks and I know I'm going to be depressed and need to spend time working this out with you when I can't give it the time it deserves because school is chaos, especially with X out.

I would love to go away with you when school is out, but how? We have no one to watch our kids. It is not possible and I need a release from school. Going camping with Y is not an attempt to cheat or be dishonest but to get away from the stressors. I would much rather do it with you or all of us going to together would be fun too. I miss my friends.

If you read the email, which obviously you have, Z invited A and her class to visit the invitees from both schools. I am not going to be there for that. I will facilitate it to happen but will not be a part of the welcome wagon. I have a professional obligation to send out notes to the students. I will have X send the notes to students if that makes you feel more comfortable. Again, I am not "attending" the meeting only help set up the space and get the students there. I have no involvement in the program.

I am trying to be transparent. I know you have access to my email, I leave my laptop for you to look at, I am trying my best to be transparent. I have no reason to not be. Honestly.

I do appreciate you trying to trust me. I just miss hanging out with my friends. I miss hanging out with you. Hopefully we can find a resolution that you will be satisfied with.
I wish I had more time to write you but I have to deal with work right now.

and his next email. Now he is upset.

I get depressed because it so much to deal with at school, it is a bomb. I wish we could talk when I get home instead of emails. And the OW - ommitted thing, I didn't consider it omitted because I did not plan on seeeing her nor did I have any email communication with her. Any time I am with 500 yards, I will let you know. I'm not being funny.

Texts are incomplete messages to each other. Going to College Town is not an overnight option. If we were to go, two is more like it. Duh. I know and he knows that is not going to happen. YOu talk about doing outings with your girlfriends all the time that will never come to fruition.

Why do you go through my messages and then stew? I'm tired of the I"m gonna getcha mode you have. I'm sure you could twist most any text I have into something negative.
X is off the cuff, "lie to her" is being taken to the extreme. He was not serious or at least I did not take it that way. He does not encourage me to lie to you, cheat on you or disrespect you. I realize I made a huge mistake two years ago. Absolutely. I'm sorry it hurts you so much still. I really am.

Not allowing me to see my friends is only builds up my resentment toward you. We can't have opposite weekends cuz your friends are impossible, that is not my problem and should not be held against me. I want to see my friends more and you want to see them less. I wish we could have them over at our house but you don't want them. What does that leave me with? Nothing, except it being a pain in the [censored] anytime I go there or they come here.

I'm sorry I sound bitter. When we first met we talked about how important our friends were to each other. My friends were my family. We promised to not get in the way of that. I know situations change and we must adapt. But not being allowed or feeling as though I'm not allowed sucks.

What are my parameters for seeing my friends? If it is only at our house, then fine, but let them come over. If it is not going out to bars or road trips. Fine. But not seeing them is not an option I'm willing to accept.

I would love to get away with you as i said in my previous email. However, how? $$ we don't have, Sitter we don't have. Let me know how to make it happen because you are my first choice.

I'm sorry this is unedited and rushed but I just don't have time right now

That was a response to this that I sent in between, sorry:

I know you are busy, so you do not have to reply. We can talk about it later. Thank you for taking the time out of your hectic work schedule to address my feelings.

Then he just sent me this, after the reply above:

The problem is not that I don't want to. I just can't adequately. I know my last email is to the point and that is not what you need but I feel I must respond. Not by you, but because I love you. Then I send off something without tact and it makes the situation worse. Ughh. kwim?
I don't mean to attack. I want us to have balance. Right now is not the time for me to find it.

So, I am not sure where to go from here. He has promised me so many things and not followed through. He quit drinking for 6 months and I was so proud of him, but the stress of his job and now the nicer weather showing up - he is back to it. His friends make it almost impossible for him to stay away from beer.

He promised me he would try and achieve balance between work and our family life, and the entire school year is over in a week and it never happened. Then, up above, he says he WANTS to have balance, but right now is not the time?

I have no idea how to help him hold himself accountable. I have no idea what the hell the consequences even are at this point. I am unhappy, he knows it, I have told him over and over what would make me happy and he just wants to run off with his friends, say spending time with me is impossible and that he does not have the time right now to find balance?

This just suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks.

Wow, Gdar, I had such a pit in my stomach when I saw your thread had been moved.

I look forward to when the vets come by, but in the meantime, I encourage you to look at the Plan B threads, see what those letters look like. They are so specific as to what they are looking for in a plan of meaningful action.

What's wrong with a family trip to celebrate being done? Do you two consider your kids "easy" or "difficult"?

Who could watch the kids so you two could go away at some point? If you have specific plans, would he be more enthusiastic about spending this weekend doing fun stuff with the kids?

What about meeting them at a restaurant for a few hours instead of a days-long visit?

He has not put any effort at all into an actual trip with all of us this summer, though it gets talked about. One of my biggest issues is that nothing ever sticks. I get a LOT of lip service. A LOT. Every single Christmas Break, Spring Break and summer break over the past few years - the first thing he does is head right to his friend's house for an overnight visit. Very first thing.

Our kids are easy. We have 4, but the older are a big help - we are very much a helpful family.

I made arrangements over a month ago for he and I to go to WA for our 5th wedding anniversary mid-July. We have nothing else planned for the family or just the two of us, no.

His parents are not speaking to us, my dad has never been much involved and my mom was unemployed for a year and just got a new job and is really busy with that. I am hoping that one of our 4 sitters will be more available now that school is out, however.

We have been round and round. His friend is totally broke and cannot afford dinners out. I have already suggested this over the years. We agreed when they came here, no overnights, but they end up staying over anyway - and then if I state my boundaries, I wind up the big [censored] who doesnt believe in fun.

Glad to see you over here, Gdar. I only have a second but...

if I could recommend something else ~ changing your thread name to something like "H recently broke NC" and then give a summary of where you are at in R so folks here can get a better idea of what is going on, I don't think most will go back and read the whole thing.

Gdar-I am sorry that I am not familiar with your story. I was trying to read some of your backstory. I know that it is A LOT of stuff, so I am sure that I would miss something.

From the posts that I have read, it seems like you two don't follow POJA. Is your FWH on board with MB? It seems that a lot of your resentment comes from the IBs that your FWH seems to exhibit. Was it like this before his A as well? Does it seem like you two are going back to your M BEFORE the A?

Sorry not to be of more help. Lots to read.

Scotland, thank you for chiming in. I have read your story and find you incredibly strong!

Our courtship was whirlwind. During this time, I learned that I could not stand his best friend, but tolerated him, as he is important to my H. Things have transpired since we have been married where the friend is a part of, that I am not ok with. Once our child was born, I tried to set healthy boundaries about what was ok and what was not (no reason to have overnights, in my opinion - he thinks that is totally unfair). Then child #2 and my H's drinking got out of hand (also, with this friend) and a couple of incidences in our home that were NOT ok and H agreed to no more overnights. That lasted a handful of months. He has always felt (since we had kids) that I make him choose between his friend and me. I do not feel I do so. I expect respect and his friend has proven to me he does not give respect. He is NOT a friend to our marriage at all. He encourages my H to drink on a daily basis. I understand my H is a grown man, but sometimes I feel that the two of them will never grow up and they fuel each other to act like they are still carefree, college drunks.

Oh, this friend is 40, has a wife and a 2 yr old (and talking about having another child when he can barely afford food).

I am sorry, I did not answer this before.

I came across this site before I found out about the EA. It was because of this site that I found out he was having one. I bought the books, we have done the questionnaire (HNHN) 3x. The last time we did it, he met my needs for about 3 days, then it was back to same ol, same ol. He says I meet all of his needs. He has skimmed through HNHR (for parents), but that is the extent of it.

We are awful at LBing each other with DJs and SDs. Thankfully, no AOs. That would be a deal breaker for me.

I believe that LB is just as important, and sometimes more important than HNHN in most cases. As I have seen posted to others, it doesn't matter how many LB deposits you make if you are making MORE withdrawals. Obviously he commits IB in GREAT abundance and it is draining your LB big time.

Do you blame this friend for your FWH's actions? Or is it just that when your FWH is with this friend, you feel like he becomes a different person? I am just trying to get a "feel" for the sitch.

Did the two of you(your FWH and yourself) have a solid plan for recovery? Were there requirements that you had for your FWH? Did you do a Plan B?

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can reply in a healthy manner? I am sure I sound like a bowl in a china shop when I communicate sometimes, but I have come a long, long, long way in the past two years.

I am sure in his response you can see the score sheet about my friends vs his friends, which I used to engage in. I stopped doing that 2 years ago. I am sure I have slipped up from time to time, but nothing is standing out in my mind right now.

His comment about how my friends are impossible and that I cannot blame him for that (I do not) is frustrating to me. My friends aer all single mothers with demanding jobs and 2 of them live 2 hours away. The way H and I work (and it is NOT working) is these ideas to go see friends is always rather last minute. In MC he agreed that once every 3 or 4 months, he would go see his friend overnight. He agreed. Then, when he made plans to see his friend outside of the agreement, he then tells me he did not think our agreement was fair and he did not intent to stick with it and "sorry, but that is just how it is going to have to be" . His friend is available almost any time because he does not put his wife and child first. H disagrees with me, but at the very same time, H will say that his friend is better than my friends because he makes the time to see him. My friends, like I said, are single moms and cannot just drop their plans or change their schedule with 1-4 days notice. They are EVERYTHING to their family and it is just not in the cards for them to run off and "hang" whenever they feel like it. For my H and his friends, this is very much how it is. The child care gets delegated to the wives and they make it happen. The stars and planets do not have to align perfectly like it does for us.

I am too hurt by his last response to respond in a way that is good for either of us. I am still waiting for my LB book to be delivered, and I hope to learn a lot from it and incorporate it into our marriage.

There was no plan B. I was 9 months pregnant with our 2nd child when this was all going on.

My H agreed to:

-No contact with OW
-If there was a program or situation where they could cross paths, he would delegate it to someone else
-No lunch/coffee with women
-No alone time with women
-No intimate conversation with women
-No going out to bars/strip clubs EVER
-Total transparency with his emails/phone calls/text messages

Now these (following)were more for the good of the family, because during the EA and the birth of our son, he started drinking heavily and having parties at the house while I just had a newborn.
-Cutting way back on the drinking
-Limiting his overnights and arranging them to be once every 4 months
-Said friend I can not stand (and another total moocher 40+ yr old friend) to NOT stay the night at our house any more.
-If said friend comes to visit with wife and child, he needs to bring his own beverages and a contribute to the food in some way
-Spending more time focused on my needs
-Less time texting/emailing, and only on agreed upon hours

there are more, but this is all I can come with at the moment. These were put in place 2 years ago