I'm a newbie here for the second time. Was here about 7 years ago after a 2nd D-day involving an emotional affair between WH and the same co-worker twice. Wanted to leave, but stayed, in large part, for the kids. We did give it a heck of a try (marriage counseling, books, workshops) for quite a few years until I left last September. I have no doubt that it wouldn't have happened again, but the first two times managed to wipe out any romantic love I had for him, despite his being very romantic and doing everything right after the fact. (He is a wonderful guy, believe it or not - just may as well be my brother at this point, if you get my drift...) Since leaving, life has definitely NOT been a bed of roses, but luckily, I knew it would be pretty rough even before I left. I never had the unrealistic expectation that it would be blissful freedom or anything even close to it. It's been very tough for all of us but I still felt like my decision was the right one. Until.....

We had our first mediation appointment yesterday and the mediator commented from the get-go that he couldn't believe we were there and how refreshing it was to see a couple care so much for one another and work so well together....yadda, yadda, yadda... Well, we were there for only three hours and by the middle of it, he had my husband step out in order to speak to me privately and proceeded to tell me that he didn't feel right continuing the process until discussing with me if there was any way I'd consider reconciling. He felt very strongly that there is still much love on both sides and that we were in the wrong place. He was practically urging me to put things on hold.

My first question is this: has anyone ever heard of a mediator doing such a thing? I felt like I was in the Twilight Zone when he was urging me to reconsider, but oddly enough, when we arrived in his office I actually DID feel like this was all wrong, despite the messy soap opera that has played out since I left and the mess that now exists. (The kids are actually doing quite well, thank God, it's the adult stuff that reads like a soap opera)

I told the mediator that I have had some doubt lately, but that I can't fathom the idea of putting everyone through this hell again by speaking up, knowing that I feel the chances of a successful reconciliation are pretty "iffy". It just doesn't feel fair to gamble with their hearts in such a way. My possible stbx has been devastated and I worried about his being suicidal at some points. Now that he is in a little better place, I would feel like I was being cruel to mention this possible change of heart.

I really don't know what to do. I do know that I have about 7 months in which to figure it out. Please help. I welcome any feedback - the good, the bad, and the ugly.

Thanks in advance.

You mentioned you did marriage counseling. Did you work with the Harleys? Did you work the MB program in its entirity?

We did not work with the Harleys, but worked several other reputable programs which were very helpful, but my romantic feelings toward him were never resurrected and that affected us both very negatively. I would have given just about anything to have gotten them back.

That sounds like bizarre behavior on the part of the mediator. How can he know or judge the dynamics of your marriage? His job is supposed to make the divorce process go more smoothly, not to give marital advice. Perhaps he has something going on in his own marriage or his own family that has caused him to lose his objectivity. The bad thing is, you had to pay money for him to essentially cloud the issue.

Ellen, I was thinking the same thing and was asking myself what might motivate him to do such a thing. The thing is, it wasn't like the mediator stood to benefit in any way, considering the fact that we were getting things settled so quickly and had paid a flat rate for the appt - he didn't stand to make any more money for taking the time to discuss this with me and drawing things out.

When we first arrived there I had to use the restroom (we were early) and apparently the two of them chatted. My husband told him that he does not want the divorce, etc., etc., and gave him some background regarding our situation. It probably didn't help that I was in tears within maybe 5 minutes of being there just because the whole thing is so heartbreaking to me - the breakup of our family and the loss of something we thought would be til death parted us. It just hit like a ton of bricks and I didn't expect it, but I doubt that's too uncommon.

I'm so puzzled. Maybe I'm reading into it too much - I'm just always one to question why certain things happen and what their significance is or is supposed to be.

I plan on making an appointment with my counselor to discuss the whole thing with her and hopefully sort out my feelings.

Thanks for your response, EllenG.

Maybe it's a God thing....??? With Him anything is possible, including restoring relationships and feelings that you thought were long gone.

As they say, it's not over 'till it's over.

inapickle, it is tragic you never used the one program that really does work. Those of us who have used it have romantic, passionate marriages. Are you aware that Marriage Builders really does work becuase it is completely different from any other program? It works in 90%+ of the cases; there is no other program like it because it is focused entirely on behavioral changes.

The other programs you used were not helpful because they did not help. The proof is in the pudding. It is doubtful they knew how to resurrect romantic feelings.

Maybe this mediator did you a huge favor. Bless her heart for caring enough to say something. My suggestion would be to try this program before you give up.

Did your husband end all contact with his lover? Or does he still work with her?

Does Marriage Builders Work?

How Dr Harley Learned to Save Marriages

SidneyT, this is where my gut immediately went when searching for an explanation and the one I can't shake. If I were to tell you how many road blocks there have been in the process of my leaving, (they began immediately) you'd be amazed. Or maybe you wouldn't.......:)

I can't stand indecisiveness and now I'm in the throes of it in regard to what's probably the biggest decision I'll ever make. I just want to do what's best for everyone.

Did you know that marriage counseling has an 84% failure rate? Marriage counselors themselves have a higher divorce rate than the general population. They don't have the slightest idea how to save a marriage and it is very rare that you would ever find one who even believed romantic love is possible.

Did you know that?

Hi, MelodyLane. He did end all contact with her and what's so very sad is that I know for a fact (and did immediately after D-day number 2) that there was no way this man would ever do such a thing to me, our marriage and our family again. I still know that. I do trust him now and know that he learned from his mistakes, which made it even more heartbreaking that my lack of feelings still stood (stands) in the way of a successful marriage that we hoped would last a lifetime.

I am thoroughly confused at this point, for so many reasons.

inapickle, Harley says that even "small deviations" from his program lead to disaster and that "it always works when it is followed." This has been my experience over the 9 years I have been here. Those who follow this program are in love; those who don't, are not. I am just telling you honestly that this program really is different from anything else and will work where others will not.

Check this out:

here

Thank you, MelodyLane. I will be doing a lot of reading tonight.

IAP, The mediator I had to go to was trained as a clinical social therapist and had a law degree. Yours may have been the same. And while in general it may not be their job to try to get couples to back down from the actual divorce, they do a lot of work reconciling two people to division of property, money, and children's time.

Also, think how many couples a mediator sees. Many, many ones.

Take your time deciding. I agree with you that you need to avoid being cruel to your husband by giving him false hope. Unfortunately, there are times when the damage done has been so bad that nothing can repair it. It's just too late, and even if he were the last man on earth and he did everything to meet your emotional needs and didn't love bust, you wouldn't want to be with him. (Steve Harley told me this himself as I was standing looking out a window.) It could be that's where you find yourself. BUT, you owe to yourself to make sure this is where you are. This should go without saying, but don't date while you are evaluating whether to move forward with divorce or not. It will cloud your thinking and it isn't fair to the person you'd be dating. Plus, should you decide to reconcile, it would create more obstacles to restoring romantic love.

Husband can't work with the OW.

Many affair restarted and a second D day because the affair parners were allowed to still work for the same company.

Many a recover has stalled because there was no NC due to the affair partners still working for the same company.

The point is there can be no if ands or buts we are different our situation is not like everyone else's...

There needs to be NC.

WH must find a new job.

How can you develop feeling back for your WH when he goes off to work every day and in the back of your mind you can never feel safe wondering if the OW is banging your WH?

Exactly. So tell your WH the first step to recovery is for him to resign ASAP.

Thanks so much, Greengables. I appreciate your comments and respect your opinion. I've read several of your posts and noticed that you tend to hit the nail on the head and give great advice. It broke my heart to read your signature line. I can't imagine what you've been through, but you appear to be a very strong, positive person and that is extremely inspiring and uplifting.

I should probably clarify here that during affair #1, they worked together but during #2 he was no longer working there but she tracked him down by phone and it went from there.....you're right, though - I never would have been able to gain ANY feeling back for him after the first time if they'd worked together for any length of time after that. We were fortunate enough to get a couple of decent years after that first d-day because he was already in the process of leaving the company by the time it all came out. Had that not been the case, he would have had to resign and I have no doubt that he would have been willing to. (Otherwise, I would have felt like I was wasting my time trying to work it out, to be honest)

inapickle, I think it would be tragic if you ended your marriage without trying the one program that really does work. For example, Dr Harley claims, and I have found this to be true, that couples fall in love again if they spend a minimum of 15 hours per week together meeting these top 4 needs: affection, conversation, recreational companionship, and sexual fulfillment.

Creating this habit [along with avoiding lovebusters and using the POJA] is what creates romantic love. It is so critical to the program that Dr Harley won't even counsel anyone who wont' agree to that step. He says his program will not work without it.

The reason I mention this is because if you have not been doing this over the years, this would be one of the reasons you didn't fall in love. Most marriage counselors, as I said earlier, don't have the slightest idea how to save marriages and spend alot of time on distractions such as bringing up past problems, learning how to "communicate" and other unproductive measures. ["communicating" does not help a couple fall in love, it only helps them communicate better - they still end up divorced]

Go ask others who do have great marriages on this forum how they did it. THAT is who I would be talking to if I were you. We all know how to end marriages, anyone can do that.

The ideal situation would be for you to be in love with your husband, right? While there are no 100% guarantees, this program does have a 90% success rate.

If I were in your shoes, I would give it a try just because you have nothing to lose, but everything to gain. If you decide to do it, I would look into the online program where they assign you a coach and guide you through weekly lessons. Here is the link: here

Okay, peeling back another layer here.......One of the issues weighing on my mind when debating whether or not to speak up about my doubts related to moving forward with our divorce is that I honestly wonder if things that have occurred since we split may cause issues that are potentially insurmountable. I have dated a couple of men (which I thoroughly regret - I went about it all wrong) and he is (get ready for this) now dating a friend of mine - well, now a FORMER friend of mine. In fact, she is currently on a plane with my family getting ready to fly to Mexico for vacation. (She is also funding most of it, apparently) However, I did leave him, so I know that I have no say in who he dates.......but it's really weird.....! He has told many people, including my entire family as well as the mediator that he would drop her like a hot potato if I'd come back and I do believe this. (I've known this for a few months, so that is in no way my motivation. I have actually supported their relationship from day one, believe it or not, because she knows and is very good to our kids. I also know that it's vital to be neutral about it if he and I are to remain on friendly terms and that we will get nowhere if there is animosity or negativity. I don't want that for our kids - period.)

I just wonder if their relationship or the short-lived "relationships" I regrettably had will become a road block and will stand in the way of a successful reconciliation, should I decide to go that route.

See what I mean about a mess? Lol. I'd love to "hear" some honest opinions.

Did you split up because you were seeing someone? Or planning to see someone?

The fact that you are both dating is not a problem that can't be overcome, but it does add a new problem to the mix.

You don't want to hear any dishonest opinions?

inapickle, my suggestion to you would be to check out Dr Harley's opinion on all this. None of us are experts here. Most of us are here because our best thinking screwed up our marriages.