Few months ago I discovered my H was having an affair with a former coworker. The affair started while both were employed in the same company. My H was in executive management position she was not. Both lost jobs beg of Jan 2010(not because of affair).

I confronted both of them on Mar 23. Husband is still denying affair despite overwhelming evidence and expose to family, close friends and business associates. So here are the key points of his behaviour

1. Starts acting strange about Nov 09
2. Jan 8 starts sleeping in another bedroom. Stopped using terms of endearment, kisses etc.
3. For another month won't tell me what is wrong and he is basically absent most of the day,sometimes without even calling to ask about our then 13 mts old son.
4. In Feb we have a talk, he says he has not been happy for 3 years(even though he has never shown or talked about it), thought having a child would fix things. I asked if another woman was involved he says no(without looking me in the eyes). Even starts crying to me. Goes to the gym afterwards but later I will find out that he was on the phone with the OW for 40min.
5. I suggest marriage counselling and he agrees to individual sessions. We did about 5 of them.
6. I get a proof of his affair(like emails etc)
7. I confront him coming out of a restaurant with her when he says he was somewhere else.
8. He still denies affair despite evidence.
9. Affair exposed to family and close friends, business associates(some of which have become friends over the years)
10. End of April he asks for divorce.
11. End of may he still denies everything.
12. He is barely home most days only comes to play with child for a bit or to take him to the park occassionally.
13. He basically ignores me other than when talking about child, but he does not pick up fights.
14. He does not care what else happens at home. He does pay the bills. Only if I ask him to buy/do something then he would do it.
15. He does not call during the day to check if son and I are even alive.
16. No remorse on his part as of now and now acknowledgment of his affair either.

Does this man feel any guilt/shame at all? He was never like this in 9 years(5 married) since we have been together. He was my best friend always talked about everything good or bad in our lives. I am just trying to find some explanation about his behaviour. Even though divorce was not what I wanted I have to preserve my dignity and stand up for myself and son. I think he has had more than enough time to come out clean one way or the other. I know that sometimes closure is not easy to find but I am hoping someone will shed some light on this one

A couple of years ago when I first went through this, someone posted a list of wayward behavior, I wish I knew where to find it, but your husband's behavior is classic. Does he feel guilty? He's probably holding guilt at bay, justifying his behavior, etc. He is in what is commonly called the fog. Someone once said it's as if aliens took their spouse and deposited this stranger instead! That pretty much describes it. Their behavior towards us can seemingly change overnight.
As far as understanding it, good luck. I've never understood what my ex did to me and I doubt there isn't any making sense of it. We can learn how best to cope with it without losing our sanity but much of the decisions are out of our control. Have you read the Harley matierial, done a Plan A, Plan B, etc?

Oh I know he is in a fog. And he is like an alien. He has never told anyone, absolutely anyone that he was unhappy so I know his story is a BS.

So now is mostly, he tries to be out of the house. When he is at home he does not pick up a fight and I don't fight either. Sometimes he would remind him that he is a father and that he cana also do some things. Like yesterday we noticed something on son's leg so he goes to me: Why don't you call the Dr to make an appointment? I said you can also call, you are a parent too. And honestly I have no time at all with a toddler. I tried to be the superwoman before trying to do all by myself and he seemed to have never appreciated that. So now he can take some of those responsibilities.

He leave the room if I mention something about the affair. But just the whole not admitting is just disrespectful. I can't save the marriage all by my self. I also found out that while I was trying to find a marriage counsellor he had already consulted a divorce lawyer in Feb 2010. I did not find this out until end of April 2010.

I have read Harleys material and I know about Plan A and B but some of those scenarios are difficult to execute if he is not around. Plus we are on a work visa in the US which means once divorced I will be back in Canada with the child and he wants to stay in the US for work.

This past year I was dealing with a 1 year old with some health issues with no family or friends nearby so that probably affected our relationship as well. I am not saying I am perfect but affair is nothing more than an easy cowardly way out of a marriage. If I beat him with a wooden stick for the past 9 years I still don't think I would have deserved so much humiliation and disrespect. My H was considered by peers, friends. coworkers as role model for a family man and now he destroyed that too. People were so shocked when they found out. His family believes me but they seem to stand by him so they are not talking to me much so I can't really count on them.

The OW is also going through divorce. She started her proceeding earlier(she must have coached my H). Her marriage has been in trouble for few years now. And she is older than my H too.

It just feels I still don't know the REAL reasons why we are divorcing. I don't know whether he filed for divorce out of shame to protect whatever little dignity he had left or what.

The OW knows very well that he was married with a child so I am sure he gave her some sad story of unhappiness like all do.

It sounds like the REAL reason he is divorcing you is so he can be with OW.

They're having an affair, they're 'in love', she's divorcing, he's divorcing, he's never had to really face the truth about what he's done (despite overwhelming evidence), and he's been able to come and go as he pleases in your house, which has made things really nice and convenient for him to continue calling all the shots as he wishes.


Does OW's H know about the affair?

Do you have a lawyer?

Do you know what Plan B is?

Yes I do have a lawyer(da
mn good one)
Her husband knows but he is already resigned about his marriage ending.

Yes I know about Plan B but due to some circumstances it cannot be executed exactly as per the website.

NotReadyToQuit, this is not the time or place to play it close to the vest.

You came here in pain, anger and confusion. There is a lot of help here, but you have to do two things:

• Learn everything you can about Marriage Builders (hint: start by clicking on the links in the red box labeled "Most Popular Links")
• Be open, honest and frank with the faceless people here who will help you tremendously get through this.

This is a unique site, and the help and healing here are awesome! Let us and it do so.

NRTQ, At this point, I think Plan B is your best bet. Here's why. The timing of the affair coincides with the stress of having a baby and the dramatically decreased time your and your H spent together, making him vulnerable to an affair. While he may not have been unhappy for three years, I bet he felt something was lacking for the last 18-24 months.

Most people who are in love with their spouses don't cheat. That's why Dr. Harley stresses creating romantic "in Love" feelings within the marriage. The people who cheat when they are in love are very bad news, and should be divorced.

Back to you specifically. If this affair was do to stress and unintentional neglect, which it sounds like, the affair will fizzle out, and your H will realize what a jack-a$$ he's been and how much he's hurt you and lost the best thing that ever happened to him. At that piont, there's a chance of saving your marriage. BUT, if you continue to have to face daily his lies and the affair, your love for him will disappear. Then, it will be too late. Plan B can protect your love for him and speed up the "affair fizzle" process.

Does Dr. Harley say this?

From my understanding, affairs happen not because a wayward is in or out of love with their spouse (although not feeling romantic love makes one more vulnerable to an affair); rather, affairs happen because of a lack of boundaries to avoid temptation.

Yes this does sound like classic affair behavior. It may seem so strange to the cheated on spouse because the Wayward is so different to them. But after being here, it's clear that this is very common affair behavior.

I haven't read Plan B, but plan on doing so. I didn't think there was any reason to. I came here long after there was nothing more between us and all bridges were burned. But if it can help me feel any better about myself after all the damage done, maybe it's something I should look into.

As for you, please protect yourself. Keep the evidence, get a lawyer, limit contact as much as possible. As bad as it is now, it can turn very ugly very quickly. It did for me, and I was TOTALLY unprepared. Good luck!!!

Ok here is the twist to my story. We are Canadians on Work visa in the US. I am not allowed to work under his work visa(can't get my own either).

So for the past 3 years I have been financially dependable on my husband. I can't just pick up the child and go back to Canada(need his permission otherwise it is kidnapping). I would have liked if this process happened in Canada but he does not want it(more money, longer it takes). For me to file in Canada I would have to be established with residence in Canada.

So these are the circumstances that I have that don't fully permit for Plan B to be executed by the book. Wheter his affair ends or not I don't know. This woman is in for the money which is very obvious. Once he wakes up he will have to scratch his head and see what damage he has done. In the meantime, my child and our wellbeing(financial and mental) is the most important thing.

As for being separated, well he is not home all day anyways. I don't cook,clean,or do any laundry for him. I stopped doing all that few months ago. He is fully capable of doing all those himself as he has been very independent since college. I don't pick up fights with him but I do stand firm on my ground and don't let him pull me by the nose. We don't discuss the divorce at home. I leave that up to the lawyer.

DD, Dr. Harley does say it in HNHH. If a person has good boundaries, he or she can not have an affair even though they aren't in love. BUT, rarely will someone in love have an affair, and those seem to be people who have serious issues like personality disorders.

I thought of this while driving. Dr. H does not say to get away from spouses who can have affairs while in love with their spouse. He lists some extrordinary precautions and boundaries that must be taken when that is the case. You can find it in the letters.

I think my H does not know of any boundries, shame or respect period.

On Sat he is taking our son to my BIL because our nephew is having a bday. He has continously excluded me from his family ever since I discovered his affair.

MY BIL and SIL saw the emails they know they cannot be faked. MIL does not do computers and refuses to see the evidence. I think his whole family is waste of time for me. They don't even call to see how our son is doing, at least they don't call me at home to ask.

Husband has gone through great lenghts to cover up affair. The day after I busted him at the restaurant he went and got another blackberry. Ironically ever since then there were no phone calls to/from the other woman. I guess we know what that blackberry is used for.

The OW husband says his wife has not been out as much lately but they don't even talk at home. So I don't know how to interpret that news. They probably are keeping low profile for now.

Today we had a meeting with our lawyers. We are no longer doing collaborative divorce since husband does not want to be collaborative even though this was his idea. Go figure!

My lawyer did not let me do lots of talking on purpose because wanted to see what H would say. I can't believe how this man who sat across the table was dissecting every dollar from the house, retirement investments etc. I was looking at an alien trapped in the body of a man I used to love more than life itself. And I was thinking to myself: if you really had issues in our marriage it would have been so much cheaper to address them when they happened rather than spend the money on lawyers now.

The other day I asked him to put some money in one of our joint accounts so I can pay the lawyer(I can't work in the US due to visa restrictions). He was not pleased yesterday and today he did not want to address the issue in the meeting. However later he called me to tell me he would put money in the account so I can pay the bill. I don't know what his lawyer told him but she must have said something. He almost sounded too nice.

H knows what evidence I have and I hope he has shared that info with his lawyer. My lawyer also took copies of the emails proving the affair.

I hope you are holding up ok. Such a shame. Yet again, so similar to my own story. In laws were told by my cheating husband not to contact me. Made up stories of how miserable he was which is why he was leaving. Hid the affair from them entirely until it was no longer possible. You have to let them go. This was hard for me too. From the moment he walked out on me I expected the phone to ring with my MIL to make sure the kids had food and my head wasn't in an oven. It never happened. I am over having a relationship with them now, but struggle with the bad (and false) rep my husband has surely painted of me to justify his taking a wrecking ball to our family. I imagine those same issues will be there for you too.

I do have a bit of advice for you, with of course the council of your lawyer. If he is working and you are not, and can not without a move, go for full/primary custody. Get as much child support as you can. Once precedent has been set (important with custody), and only after all the other things are arranged, you might be able to go for full LEGAL custody as well. Don't bring this up at first tho. It seems as if eventually you are going to have to go back to Canada if you can't work here. There will be no choice it seems. And one of you will have to be the full legal custodian if you must live in separate countries unless an agreement can be made between the two of you about bridging the gap otherwise with frequent visits to your WH. If you were the primary custodian, you would most likely be granted the legal custodian and therefor you could go where and when you wanted with your son.

Of course, run this by your lawyer.

Cheating, lying spouses suck! They ARE aliens. We can only hope they wake up one day and are shocked at what they've done to their children, spouses, and selves.

Yes I will be going back to Canada with the child who will reside with me pretty much all the time. He is only 18 mts and I don't want to subject the child to any long car rides or airplane rides at this time. So I will have the physical custody. As for the legal custody I don't know how useful it is to have joint on that one since one parent will leave in a different country. What would my husband know if a particular school is good or bad or if I have to take my son to this doctor or that doctor.

So if I understand you correctly I should try to get sole physical and legal custody and H would have visitation rights.

As for the visitation my suggestion would be that H and I sit down beginning of the year and figure out a schedule with holidays/weekends when child will spend time with him. The only close family H has in Canada is his 70 year old mother who lives on the other side of town by herself.

I was actually going to send you a private message to ask you few more things but it is disabled on your profile.

It seems to be disabled on yours too, which I guess is a site issue. If it comes up again, please contact me.

So, earlier you said taking the boy back to Canada would be paramount to kidnapping, but now you seem to think your WH would be agreeable. Progress?

And don't worry, the ILs know he's cheating. He knows you know it. The judge will probably agree and he probably knows that too, but in many states (mine included) it, astonishingly enough, doesn't matter if he's had an affair. He just can't admit it out loud to others and to you until he's ready to own it himself.

NRTQ, I assumed you've spoken with a lawyer about taking the child back to Canada. Some states won't even let you move out of the state without their permission. New Jersey is an example. The reason is the state feels it needs to protect the children of a divorce.

Also, unless your H is willing to reliquish his legal custody of the child, I doubt you get full legal custody. The reason is he is the father, and should have a say in important issues like medical care, schooling, religious upbringing, etc.

Is your H willing to never see his child again? How can you put a 2 year old into the hands of someone he won't even remember in 6 months? Twice a year is not enough time to develop a relationship with the other parent.

As much of a PITA as the father of your child is being, would it really be better for your child not to have a relationship with his dad? Probably not.

So, why not try to cut a deal that you will stay in the states for X years, but he pays you alimony. You can't work here, plus you have an infant. In today's economy, the cost of child care vs. wages makes it even more difficult. [b](Make sure that should you go back to work, your H pays half of child care ON TOP OF child support).[/b]
Also, does your child have dual citizenship? If not, is he a Canadian or an American?

My H is on a work visa here in the US and I am dependent on his visa and I am not allowed to work. I cannot get my own work visa either. So this is why I have to go back to Canada. H does not have a problem with me taking the child. He can't take care of him himself. He travels for work a lot. We have no family in the US to help. Son has dual citizenship. We don't have green cards or anything like that. H knew all this before he asked for divorce. To me if he really wanted to be near his child he would have made the effort to find work in Canada and be closer to the child. But I guess paying less taxes, making more $$$ is more important to him than being near his son.