But that is the crux of the matter....making a commitment....your H and mine love to fence sit!

I also call it putting ones head in the sand....if I ignor it long enough it will just go away.

I have to have it the MB way....as any other way won't work....all the other programs I have read do not deal with IB...they actually encourage it and call the opposing spouse controlling or jealous or just a insecure nutcase.

Did you happen to listen to the MB radio show today? a man called up upset that his W is saying she's gonna D him...come to find out he has been neglecting her for yrs and this isn't the 1st time she has threatened D...and each time the H perks up some and tries to pay some attention to his marriage but after a short while goes right back to his old habit of neglect...he even said he thinks "hey I a married...why do I have to do anything more"....and this time the W is really wanting nothing to do with him....his presence makes her physically feel ill! Geez I could so relate....I went thru that for 5mo's recently and it took shear will power to force myself out from that place....it won't take much to shove me right back in there....the next 4days will be the truth time in my marriage....the agreement we had for him to decide if he will do the MB program or not is up....we will finish the next 2 chp's of the IB section and then I will expect his decision....good or bad I am prepared....I am taking Dr.H's advice to me....either way....I won't be in this place of fence sitting much longer....he's in or he's not....and then I go to Dr.H's plan and forget about the rest...it is much to stressful to remain in the place of trying to plan A someone (which is what they told the guy on the show today to do) and stay there too long...I will move on.

I haven't read this whole thread, but I do agree that addressing micro issues is a waste of time when you haven't implemented the foundation of this program. Fix the macro and the micro will take care of itself.

Focusing on micro issues is a needless distraction in a marriage that has not implemented the basic concepts.

I wish I felt he would be on board with this. I also wish I could call his best friend and tell him to take a flying leap. LOL

Ok, I just bought LB and the 5 Steps. Now I think I have all the books! LOL

So, how do approach this without making him ... want to run away? The last 2 times I brought books to him, his response was "great, what did I do now"...

You know what, Eff this whole freaking thing.

OMG.

H has been deleting all of his emails today, including every one that has been sent. I opened up one that was sent from someone at his old school and found out why.

Ggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Now I have to freaking tell him I looked today and I do not even want to deal.

Well, *she* is scheduled to be at his school today for a brief overview of a program that kids leaving his school and going to her school. I did not see any direct correspondence between the two of them, but when he replied to this other person about setting up a space for her to come and do the intro, she was CCd on it.

He PROMISED me there would never, EVER again be ANY contact with her whatsoever. He lied to me by omission BY NOT telling me she would be there today. Luckily HE is not there, because he is at a meeting at another location, but this was an emergency meeting that just came about last night - so if that would not have happened, they would have been TOGETHER at his school today!

Ok, I just looked at the email again. Since I had to pick up my son today from school at the same times her deal was scheduled, I am just going to tell him I saw her at his school. Yes, I am going to lie - because I have the distinct feeling he is going to turn this around and make it about ME checking his email.

OMG I am so livid right now I cannot even think right.

Crap, that will not work. I just saw he got a brand new email that changed it from today to June 11th. Should I bring it up and see if he is truthful?

I have a better idea. I am showing up at his school next Friday and then I will SEE her and we can go from there.

I have no idea how I am going to maintain my composure. I really don't know.

this could not be happening at a worse time, either. Today damn near sent him over the edge with work stress, and me saying anything is going to make it so much worse. Effffffffffffffffffff.

*HUGS* ((((( Gdar )))))

Ok, what would calmer minds recommend? I think they would say don't assume... maybe, not sure. Give him time to tell you the truth? But don't "test" him?

I wouldn't qualify as a calmer mind, myself, just trying to guess what one might say.

Or would they say that you need to be as H&O as possible, short of revealing your source?

(((Gdar)))

I can't imagine how you must feel. I felt very uneasy back when you posted about your H wanting to go to the conference w/OW...and then some other things you have said raised bug redflags.

PLEASE please post about this in the SAA forum. I think your H is still foggy and they will be better equipped to help you over there. Hang in there.

Susie, he was not going to go to that conference without me, period. We established that. Since I cannot go, he canceled.

I KNOW there is nothing going on between the two of them, and he is trying to be professional, but I still cannot shake that he has yet to share this information with me. As SOON as it was learned she was going to attend that conference, he told me THAT day. There has been no contact between them and the only contact was she was CCd on an email regarding her doing the meet n greet at his school. Problem is, he has not told me.

Should I just show up Friday?

Right, I got that...but to be honest, I was very worried for you, as a FBS, that he even tried to make the trip happen (regardless of whether you would be there or not).

Now my feelings have been solidified with your post about your H CC'ing OW on an email...and she's going to be at his school???

This is a very clear, black-and-white violation/disregard for NC and your feelings and boundaries. I am sorry, but your H is still wayward and ripe for reigniting his A or starting a new one. I am not sure why you are hesitant to post over in SAA but again I would encourage you to do so.

He is the one who implemented this entire program for a very large school district. He did not know she was going until it was already planned and he got the list of all teachers going from all of the area schools... so I am not concerned about that.

But yes, this is in direct "violation" of the NC and my feelings AND boundaries FOR SURE.

I am not worried about him picking up where he left off with her. I am upset yes, but not because I think they are just going to gaze into each others eyes are run off into the sunset.

#1. In your case, you have a RIGHT to snoop, so you better get over the guilty thing, asap. You are doing this for your M. period.

#2. I do not know about a face to face in the school where your son attends. Are you in that much control? I wouldn't be.
There has to be another way-- (if you do not want to let on about the email) --For example, can you have a conversation with another staff member- who, incidentally btw- happens to mention OW presence in the school?

Then you can check his story.

Calm, calm head. This is an opportunity-- and a pain in the butt.

Thanks, Barbie.

I am feeling less guilty. I checked again this morning. So far he did not actually CC her in the email, he did a "reply all" to which she was originally in the CC line. That is as far as any contact I can find. I looked at the documents for this prgram on the computer and I can find zero reference to her. From what I can glean from what I have seen, she is taking her students that were in the program (she is at the highschool, my H is middle school now) and going around to area middle schools (all of them) to talk about how much the program helped the kids (now that it is being implemented at the middle school level for this upcoming year).

My son is not part of this program, but a lot of his friends are.

Yes, I can have a conversation and find out that way. I am also going to suggest I stop by Friday to p/u our son, and if he says he will do it (knowing Fridays are busy and I have picked him up for the last 2), then I will... ask?

I am calm, I am not freaking out. I am not going to turn into a suspicious person, but just find out what I can. It was hard enough to be lovey dovey all weekend when I just wanted him to tell me. Maybe he will, but I doubt it.

I had my next IC appt last night. I did not make another appt. He is a nice guy, but I am just not getting much out of, and he is as far from MB as you can get. He keeps asking me to get together with my friends outside of the house - take a weekend, thinking that is what I need.

Still no word from H about OW being at his school this Fri and another reference to spending time away to see his POS friend and another friend (whom I like, but still isn't the most trustworthy), so when I asked him if he had made any plans, he said no - they were just "talking about it".

So, should I verbally talk with him, or email him, or ?? about OW coming to his school this Friday? I do not want him to turn this into me getting into his email and checking up on him (which he has done the last two times), because 2 years ago that was the agreement. I need to have something in my head that can steer the conversation back to the point...

This is what I just emailed him.

I feel so terrible for the tremendous pressure you are in at work. Several times throughout the day I wonder and feel for you, hoping you are not taking on too much that is going to stress you to the max. I know how hard you work and how much it means to you to get this just right.

I have appreciated the affection you have shown me when you come home, even when I know your mind is elsewhere. It shows me you care, that even though you are runover at work, you have arms to wrap around you and you like it.

You have been so busy lately and I have been feeling like I am getting less and less information and it gets my mind going places I do not want it to go. I cannot help but feel triggered to my bad feelings when I see your face in your phone or computer and most times wish I had that interest and time spent for us. I know you have work to do and I cannot have you all to myself when I want, but I am trying my best to be patient, as the year is almost over.

This time of year is very stressful for me, because of where we have been this time of year in the past. This time, especially, I really need full disclosure and transparency from you in order to feel emotionally solid. I feel horrible even needing anything from you right now, because you are over extended. Then I feel horrible for feeling horrible - because after all, my feelings matter, too. I keep trying to convince myself to just hang in there and it is almost over and then I get you to myself.

I feel like you are ready to run off with your friends the moment school is over. I wish I felt that you wanted to run off with me the moment it was over. We have been put on the backburner for such a time now, that I do feel disheartened that I feel like I am not the person you want to be with the moment you have that time. I am not comfortable with you leaving with Tom and [censored], to be totally honest. They lie to their wives, they behave poorly when they are not around and they encourage you to do the same and lie to me. It is really not a good feeling and I wish I felt more comfortable, but I do not. I do not feel they are friends of our marriage, but just you independently. But you are a we now - have been for 6 years. I believe enough has transpired in the past that my trust, as much as I want it to be there, is just not there. I do not want you to feel you have to lie to me because you do not want my negative reaction. I am trying really hard on my end, to work on my reactions to things I do not enjoy. It is hard, but I am trying. Have you noticed?

I feel like as time goes on and we are further into recovering over the past two years, that the transparency has become less and less. With everything going on with your work, I feel more left out and that causes me to become insecure. Do you remember when you promised me total transparency? Do you still feel that way, or did you ever? I feel like they are things that are being ommitted, but I want to give you the benefit of the doubt. I wish that I could, because I am sure that would make you trust me more, as well.

I was hoping that you would tell me that you have arranged for Slubtbag to come to your school. I waited and waited, hoping, NEEDING, you to be honest with me. You promised me that you would never have contact with her again. Even with these programs (that you also promised me you would delegate to someone else to reduce the possibility of you two coming in contact) you are both a part of. I am really disappointed right now. Do you feel what I asked from you and what you promised to give me is unrealistic? Do we need to readdress these and establish a different agreement? I am desperately looking for an agreement between you and I to stick. This is where my trust issues come into play. I so want to trust you because we both deserve to have this in our marriage. These ommissions put me back at square one, and I do not want it to undo all of the other progresses we have made.

I would not want to do something to hurt you, and I would do anything to keep you from hurt if I could. I was hoping I could get the same from you. Is there a way we can come to an agreement together?

Ok, can I get some feed back over here? Hello?