Can I ask why the two of you have no joint friends in town where you live?

I just received this email:

Thank you for going out to dinner last night and enjoying a mellow evening of Glee I'm sorry for not being as supportive as I should have been yesterday over email. I love you and I hate the fact that you don't always feel it.

He is from a coastal town, and his friend is still there.

Three of my closest friends moved 2 hours away (when I was married before, I followed and lived there for 4 years and I actually have a LOT of friends in that city). We live in a town people like to get away from when they grow up, I guess.

He went to college 4 hours away and a few of his close friends also went to this college, but none of them live in our city. He has a friend I like a lot, they live about an hour north and also have a daughter the same age as our son, but they are always really busy. When he starts telling me I keep him from his (loser) friend, I remind him that I am more than open to inviting the friend down that I do like, as I get along great with his wife.

He has a friend here in town that I also like, and like his wife, but this guy is SUPER devoted to his wife and they are real homebodies and he turns down our many invitations almost always. They are just not that social. It is a shame, because I bet my H would stop needing loser friend if his good friends would come around more often.

We are great friends with our neighbors, who also have 4 kids - all the same age as ours, but they had to short sale their home and moved to the other side of town. She went back to school to become a teacher and her H is trying to get his business off the ground. 3 of their 4 kids are on a LOT of sports teams. Since they no longer live 2 doors down, we have only seen them once socially. We both miss them.

Ha! Guess who I am going to call to get us all together as soon as school is out! Thank you for asking me this question, as it gave me a great idea.

My best friend lives here in town, but we do not like her BF at ALL, although we are really nice to him when we do see them. We pretty much shut down our house as the social hub (we host many football viewings here because we have a 120" projection TV system and a media room) when my H was having aa hard time with his drinking.

Gdar - do you see what he is doing here? He is placing the responsibility for you being in love with him on YOU, instead of taking it upon himself. It is not your responsibility to be in love with him, it is your responsibility to get him to feel in love with you.

You fill his Love Bank and he feels in love with you and so life is ok for him and he'll just sit back and splash around in his love feelings for you and expect that just because he's feeling love for you, that's enough for you to feel it back. He's confusing the FEELING of Love with the VERB/ACTION of Love. He can feel love for you all day - you're not going to know he loves you unless he ACTs from love and shows you care.

Doesn't work that way.

HE is responsible for the way you feel about him.

Perhaps you can respond to him in that vein. Something like:

"I hate that I don't feel your love for me, too. Maybe we can talk about what you could DO to help me feel that."

I wonder if he was the one feeling what I went through... he never had to endure the feelings I went through because of his EA.

Sometimes I fantasize about having one so he could FEEL what it is like and it would wake him the hell up about what is really important. Not friends, not work, not beer, but US. Marriage. The foundation that makes everything else possible. I have a feeling the entitlement of what he deserves and his assumption that I keep him from HIS family - his friends - would be small beans in comparison to what it feels like to have your spouse start to fall in love with someone else.

Yes - this! Thank you for articulating what I could not.

I have tried that approach before, and I honestly cannot recall what the outcome was (but it obviously did not work, as here we are).

If he is sorry that I do not feel his love, and I FLAT OUT TELL HIM what he can do for me to feel it, why isn't it happening? If he says he wants to know, says he will do what I need, WHY is not taking place? I just DONT UNDERSTAND.

about his love bank being full - and he says I meet his needs, then what about how he is telling me he is resentful that I "keep" him from his friends? I do NOT keep him from doing anything. If he is going to do something that will make me unhappy, I tell him and remind him that I am NOT telling what to do or not to do.

If he is so happy and in love with me, then why he is pushing so hard to blame me for not getting to do what he really wants to do? And if I am meeting his needs, why isnt he meeting mine?

I plan A'd the heck out of him after the EA. Had a ton of SF. Then, the night before our wedding anniversary (which was 2 months after D-Day), he hosted a Bachelor Party that I was not happy about (because it started at our house and I had a newborn) and they went to a strip club, where his loser friend who could not put food on the table for his wife and just born daughter, bought my H a lap dance. This was after he promised me he would not go to the strip joints in the first place. So, our entire anniversary was ruined, right after the birth of our son was ruined (by the EA). My point is, I was meeting his needs like crazy and he STILL got a freaking lapdance. Stuff like this. Not that he has done ANYTHING like this since - because I made it very clear I WILL NOT be married to "that guy" and he agreed.

then what about how he is telling me he is resentful that I "keep" him from his friends?

Would it be honest to say that you're resentful about how he is allowing his friends to keep him from you?

This:
You HAVE to ditch the 'marriage at all costs' attitude. He does this because he can get away with it. What were his consequences? Gdar, you're too scared of raining holy hell, and that's your problem. Your H has no consequences.

I'm not talking punishment consequences. Maybe banishment consequences, but those would be natural. "You have some woman rub her nasties in your face, you no longer have a wife, you have a legal financial obligation, buddy."

You aren't that important to him. Or put it another way - there is nothing to motivate him to put you first. You won't leave him, you'll meet his ENs and fill his LB. He just puts up with you nagging and unhappy with him every so often because for the most part life is pretty good. He gets someone that will take care of his kids, he gets to go out and live it up with his buddies when he wants to, he gets his ENs met. If there's a problem, it's your fault. You need to 'just deal' or 'get over it' because his life is great.

I just don't think your feelings mean very much to him. He wants you to feel loved but he doesn't want to do anything to do that. That's why he doesn't consider his EA an A.

What was he like when you were courting?

I understand that his job is very stressful. He's put you on the backburner. You'll always be there so he doesn't have to worry about you, so everything else has a higher priority. A friend of mine in high school once left a pot of water boiling on the stove, then fell asleep. All the water boiled out and eventually ruined the pot and set the kitchen on fire. You're that pot - on the back burner while he's busy making a souffl�. Pretty soon you're gonna be out of water, you're gonna break and the kitchen (marriage) is going to be on fire, ruined.

I find it very telling that when he wants to destress and relax, he feels he has to do it without you. He equates you with more work - work he doesn't want to do. He wants you to love him without having to do anything to EARN it. Maybe that's how you have to put it to him.

"I will feel your love for me when you show it to me. Right now I don't believe you love me because you aren't doing ANYTHING to cause those feelings in me."

Identify SPECIFICALLY what you need to feel in love. Precisely what it is he can do to fill your Love Bank. 15 hours of time, meeting xxx ENs in yyy way. The say "if you want me to feel loved do THIS for the rest of our lives" ....though I'm not sure how to do that so that it's not a SD...

Basically I don't think you've established strong healthy boundaries and a high enough bar for your marriage to survive. That needs to change.

I know you understand this, but you need to be associated with destressing and sanctuary from the world. DH and I have worked HARD to cultivate that attitude. When life is rough, we seek out each other, not someone else. The key to achieving that, I believe is UA time. I think you've said you're not getting anywhere near 15 hours. You will not be able to make ANY progress until you can get that time.

He won't give you that time, because you're still on that back burner.

Have you worked on eliminating your LBs?

You need to make your side of the street pristine.

There need to be consequences for him. I'm not sure what those consequences are. Sorry this post is pretty stream of consciousness and it may not be very helpful.... have you considered calling in to the radio program, to ask them what you should do?

ETA: TL;DR version: He has had NO consequences for the way he treats you, so there is no motivation for him to treat you well. Let him know you WANT to be in love with him, but it is his responsibility to get you to feel that way and you're not going to be responsible for it anymore. Clean up your side of the street and let him know you will only stay in a happy, fulfilling marriage based on MB- he can't keep phoning it in.

Dr. Harley discussed this on the radio show, either yesterday or the day before. You would think that if his Love Bank is full and his ENs are being met, he'd be falling all over himself to reciprocate. DR.H said that that usually isn't the case. I can't remember EXACTLY what he said but what I think is that he feels entitled to feeling in love with you. He feels great, and so he's projecting his feelings of being in love and good onto you, thinking if all is good for him it should be for you too. He doesn't realize that it doesn't work that way.

When people commit to 'love you for the rest of your life' at the alter, they often think they are committing to FEELING in love for the rest of their life. In his mind he's holding up his end of the bargain. He doesn't realize that the commitment he made was really to commit acts of 'love' for you for the rest of your life. Love the VERB not love the NOUN.

He doesn't see the difference.

I also get the impression that he feels overwhelmed by his level of responsibility. He resents it. He resents that he can't live it up as a single guy anymore. He has a wife and children and a stressful job but wants the lack of responsibility that comes with the single life. He and his friendships with those guys you don't like, have romanticized that life into something wonderful. He wants to get away from the responsibility that you have come to symbolize. He made the choices in his life to get this job, have the kids and marry you, but the fantasy single life is filling his head. So he resents you - for being the symbol of all the responsibilities he doesn't want to bear.

He wants the perks of the family, the good job, the kids... but he doesn't want the work that goes along with them. So you've become his scapegoat.

Gdar, I get the feeling you're in much the same situation I've been in, where you ARE in love, but it's unrequited. Notice he didn't say anything about you not feeling love TOWARDS him, but you not feeling love FROM him. You can't get a signal from a dead station.

If he's not broadcasting the message, how are you supposed to hear it?

Maybe you guys could try this, if he'd be willing: each of you take a sheet of paper and make two columns.

THINGS YOU DO THAT MAKE ME FEEL LOVED

THINGS I DO TO SHOW YOU LOVE

It would kind of be like filling out the ENQ, only with this you could compare and contrast...do the things you do to show love match the ways he feels loved? And vice-versa, of course. With this kind of list, you could at least let him know that 'this or that' doesn't really do anything for you, but in a nicer way, like, "I never knew you did that to show your love. I really never got that message from it."

And if he has nothing to put under what he does, well, then, there's another talking point.

Vibrissa, thank you so much for your insight. I agree 100% to everything you said.

I feel helpless to change it. I feel I have tried. I feel like no matter what I try to change, to make better, it makes no difference. I acknowledge the small things he does in hopes they will continue, but nothing ever continues.

I agree he does not see the difference.

I have no idea how to help him see it. I am losing faith he ever will. Fast.

I also believe he is totally overwhelmed by his level of responsibility and that he sees me as more work. I am always upset about something, so I get a lot of "what did I do NOWs". I cannot fake happiness. I AM NOT HAPPY. I will not pretend to be happy so he can stop feeling like I am work.

I have no idea to make him want what he already has. No idea at all. Fresh out. We have struggled with this since we had our first child. He feels he is Mr. Wonderful because after all, as his mother put it, he married someone used (being I was married and had 2 kids). He is raising someone else's kids - isn't he selfless? He works his tail off to provide for a family of 6 - isn't he selfless? He has EARNED his right to drinking in the garage of a buddy! He shows me love by a roof over my head, food on the table and a slap on the [censored]. Why on earth is that wife of his, just not happy?

I am going to totally DJ here, blech.

I have a pretty good feeling what he would put under that list (not all, but some).

I support you financially
I help raise your kids
I keep you dry, fed
I call you and tell you I love you
I share about my days with you
I cook for you on the weekends

and about the consequences? I have no idea how to enforce a boundary because everyone I have set, has been sailed right over. I am out of ideas here. If it looks at all like boundary setting, he feels trapped and like I am telling him what he can and cannot do. I do not know how to set them without him feeling this way.

You would think that having unhappy wife for over 2 straight years would be some sort of consequence, but he just sees it as nothing he can ever do makes me happy. He says often, "damned if I do, damned if I don't".

Those are all good things. Right?

Yes, of course they are good things.

This alone will not sustain my love for him. There are way too many LBs happening that even though he id doing those things, they are not enough for me.

I am really hoping when my LB book gets here, I can get some more help.

Um, I may get smacked here, but this isn't MB101 so it's not as "It's all your fault!" that that board is, but I would suggest stop worrying about his feelings about being trapped (he isn't, btw, he's a grown man who CHOSE to get married, raise another man's children, and have children of his own with his bride) and start worrying about your failure to set boundaries.

There is no good reason why he should spend the night out with his buddies--given the 'trap' he walked into willingly--and there is no good reason why he can't take all of his stuff with him when he chooses to do that instead of doing what he signed up for.

You have every right to say, "I will no longer remain married to a man who stays out all night." Let him pout and Waaaa about it if he wants to; his choice. Your choice. He goes anyway, you know his choice.

Help him pack, so he doesn't come back.

I loaded up all my H's stuff and dropped it in the back of his truck, changed the locks and unplugged the garage. And I'm still married. To me, that's a boundary. I've actually said to him, "You want to stay out all night, go ahead, stay out all night every night, you know the address to send the checks for your kids." and I pulled away.

Girl, there ain't nothing wrong with a little calm-but-crazy.

HERE IS WHAT YOU E-MAILED HIM, IT IS OK. BUT SHOWED YOUR PERSONALITY AND YOUR LACK OF BOUNDARIES, DONT WORRY THIS IS JUST YOU. iI WILL TRY AND GO THRU IT YOU MAY LEARN SOMETHING ABOUT YOURSELF YOU MAY NOT. THERE IS A REASON HE IS WALKING ALL OVER YOU.

YOU SAID: This is what I just emailed him.

I feel so terrible for the tremendous pressure you are in at work. Several times throughout the day I wonder and feel for you, hoping you are not taking on too much that is going to stress you to the max. I know how hard you work and how much it means to you to get this just right.

THIS IS TRULY LACK OF BOUNDARIES. YOU ARE NOT SHOWING EMPATHY, YOU ARE ACTUALLY MERGING WITH HIM AT THIS POINT. THIS GIVES HIM FREE REIN TO WALK ALL OVER YOU. HE IS TAKING ON TOO MUCH BECAUSE HE WANTS TO, IT IS HIS CHOICE TO DO TOO MUCH WORK AND PUT YOU AT THE BOTTOM OF HIS PRIORITY LIST. TOO NICE, TOO MUCH SYMPATHY.

A PERSON WITH BOUNDARIES WOULD HAVE SAID: "I KNOW YOU ARE BUSY AND HAVE CHOSEN TO TAKE ON TOO MUCH WORK BUT......"

I have appreciated the affection you have shown me when you come home, even when I know your mind is elsewhere. It shows me you care, that even though you are runover at work, you have arms to wrap around you and you like it.

THIS IS SO SAD, HONEY YOU ARE BASICALLY ACCEPTING THAT HIS MIND IS ELSEWHERE. IT DOES NOT SHOW YOU HE CARES WHEN HE HAS HIS MIND ELSEWHERE YET YOU SAY IT SHOWED YOU HE CARED. HE IS NOT RUNOVER AT WORK, HE CHOOSES TO TAKE TOO MUCH ON AND NOT COME HOME TO THE FAMILY, HE CLEARLY PREFERS BEING AT WORK.
YOU ARE TRYING TO TELL HIM YOU ARE GLAD HE STILL LIKES HUGS FROM YOU. YOU ARE ACCPTING THAT YOU ARE LAST IN LINE FOR HIS AFFECTION.

You have been so busy lately and I have been feeling like I am getting less and less information and it gets my mind going places I do not want it to go. I cannot help but feel triggered to my bad feelings when I see your face in your phone or computer and most times wish I had that interest and time spent for us. I know you have work to do and I cannot have you all to myself when I want, but I am trying my best to be patient, as the year is almost over.

"I NEED YOUR TIME, NOT THE SCHOOL, WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT LIMITS REGARDING YOUR WORK AND YOUR FRIENDSHIPS OR OUR MARRIAGE WILL NOT SURVIVE"

This time of year is very stressful for me, because of where we have been this time of year in the past. This time, especially, I really need full disclosure and transparency from you in order to feel emotionally solid. I feel horrible even needing anything from you right now, because you are over extended. Then I feel horrible for feeling horrible - because after all, my feelings matter, too. I keep trying to convince myself to just hang in there and it is almost over and then I get you to myself.

YOU SHOULD NOT FEEL HORRIBLE ABOUT NEEDING ANYTHING FROM HIM. THIS IS TELLING HIM THAT YOU ARE NOT WORTH HIS TIME, THAT YOU KNOW THAT "LITTLE OLE YOU" IS NOT VALUEABLE BUT PLEASE GIVE A CRUMB OF LOVE TO "LITTLE OLE YOU" HIS "OLD COMFY SHOW WAITING FOR HIM AT HOME". THIS IS WORDY AND HE DOES NOT CARE ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS SO HE WOULD NOT ABSORB OR BE AFFECTED BY THAT THAT YOU WROTE HERE.

I feel like you are ready to run off with your friends the moment school is over. I wish I felt that you wanted to run off with me the moment it was over. We have been put on the backburner for such a time now, that I do feel disheartened that I feel like I am not the person you want to be with the moment you have that time. I am not comfortable with you leaving with Tom and [censored], to be totally honest. They lie to their wives, they behave poorly when they are not around and they encourage you to do the same and lie to me. It is really not a good feeling and I wish I felt more comfortable, but I do not. I do not feel they are friends of our marriage, but just you independently. But you are a we now - have been for 6 years. I believe enough has transpired in the past that my trust, as much as I want it to be there, is just not there. I do not want you to feel you have to lie to me because you do not want my negative reaction. I am trying really hard on my end, to work on my reactions to things I do not enjoy. It is hard, but I am trying. Have you noticed?

"I WANT YOU TO SPEND ALL YOUR FREE TIME WITH ME. IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO DO THIS, BUT RATHER BE WITH YOUR FRIENDS, OR GENERATE MORE AND MORE WORK FOR YOURSELF BY DEVELOPING MORE SCHOOL PROGRAMS, THEN WE HAVE TO RECONSIDER HOW TO REDO THE DYMANICS OF OUR MARRIAGE."

I feel like as time goes on and we are further into recovering over the past two years, that the transparency has become less and less. With everything going on with your work, I feel more left out and that causes me to become insecure. Do you remember when you promised me total transparency? Do you still feel that way, or did you ever? I feel like they are things that are being ommitted, but I want to give you the benefit of the doubt. I wish that I could, because I am sure that would make you trust me more, as well.

"I NEED TOTAL TRANSPARANCY, ESPECIALLY AFTER WHAT HAPPENED TWO YEARS AGO THAT SUMMER. I FEEL LIKE YOU ARE LYING TO ME AGAIN"

I was hoping that you would tell me that you have arranged for Slubtbag to come to your school. I waited and waited, hoping, NEEDING, you to be honest with me. You promised me that you would never have contact with her again. Even with these programs (that you also promised me you would delegate to someone else to reduce the possibility of you two coming in contact) you are both a part of. I am really disappointed right now. Do you feel what I asked from you and what you promised to give me is unrealistic? Do we need to readdress these and establish a different agreement? I am desperately looking for an agreement between you and I to stick. This is where my trust issues come into play. I so want to trust you because we both deserve to have this in our marriage. These ommissions put me back at square one, and I do not want it to undo all of the other progresses we have made.

"WHY DID YOU NOT TELL ME ABOUT SLUTBAG (LOVE THAT NAME) COMING TO THE SCHOOL"


I would not want to do something to hurt you, and I would do anything to keep you from hurt if I could. I was hoping I could get the same from you. Is there a way we can come to an agreement together?

_________________________I WOULD NEVER HURT YOU, WHY WOULD YOU HURT ME BY LYING TO ME AND SEEING SLUTBAG AGAIN? WHY WOULD YOU LIE ABOUT VISITING YOUR FRIEND ? WHY ALL THESE LIES? Y

CWMI, you are awesome! Wow!

Um I cannot do that. I just cannot. And he knows I won't. Again, that is viewed as a "you can do this, but you better no, OR ELSE". This is how he will see it and then I again, to blame for his choice.

There is something pretty huge that happened last Nov that got him to quit drinking, but the stress of his job brought the drinking back into play after almost 6 months without it. I believe he thinks he can be good, when he has shown me so many times he cannot. No, I do not trust him. I wish I could, but I do not. I do not think he will meet someone at work and fall in love and ride off into the sunset, but without fail once a year since we have been married, he has made a very, very poor decision that just sends me deeper and deeper into... unhappiness.