We could be wrong of her motives. We are NOT over emphasizing it though. I have assume she is always looking for a way to get around me and resume contact with him. I have to protect my family. Its good to look at this stuff from as many ways as we can.

When she broke off their engagement it had alot to do with his cheapness and being insensitive to her feelings. He forgot her on major holidays. Didnt get her presents. He never wanted to fly to visit her. She had to come out with him. He would blow her off to visit his family.

When they were engaged I was the OM. She would call me and complain about him. We had dated before but never anything serious. I was living half way around the world so it was just by phone. I got deployed in the middle of their engagment. I told her have a nice wedding and a good life because I would NOT be involved with a married woman. I didnt call her for 8 months. I got curious and called to catch up. Turns out she wasnt married and the wedding was on indefinite hold. I ended up transferring an hour from her and the engagement fell apart shortly after I got back.

I probably had something to do with it. If they were married we would have been in an EA. They weren't M though. I realize that now and I feel guilty about what I did somewhat.

That was 8 years ago now. I KNOW from what his family says he blames his failed engagement on the OM (me). I dont know who he blames for the other 2 engagements of his that failed. Engaged is NOT married though. She never took vows till death to you part with him. She doesnt have a child with him.

The point is that to him im STILL the man that ruined his engagement to her. To HIM they are soul mates and I just got in between them. He blames me for ruining their engagement. Thats why he had no problem sleeping with a married woman. He felt I deserved it. THe only reason he is backed off is because he has 17 years in the military. Thats alot of time to risk over a woman that already spurned you once.


I dont know what she thinks about him. I think she is sorry for the pain she caused me. I think she still feels a bit entitled to the A thats just conjecture though.

She is starting to realize just how important she is to me. That I WILL fight for her. I think she is also starting to realize that she appreciates me more than she ever knew. We shall see I guess.

She is staying in the same room as her friend. I ended up not going up there. I went by his house and doorbell ditched him. He answered so he isnt at college town USA.

Kinda juvenile but it was effective enough.

We talked a bit on the phone. Probably about 5 minutes. Pretty good for us on the phone. Usually she will barely bother saying hi.

She got upset when I asked her what hotel she was staying at. She still is very touchy about that. Very passive aggressive and defensive. "well we are staying at the holiday inn I think. I would give you the room number but the phone is unplugged because friends kids are trying to call out. Ill be glad to take pictures to prove it for you if you want me too."

I just said thank you for telling me and changed the subject. I hope she doesnt think we can just sweep this under the rug and move on. Im NOT going plan C.

Anyways thats the latest.

I don't like that she can't understand that she can't have over night trips on her own.

I don't like the remark: I think it's a Holiday Inn, she doesn't know, this statement only plants seeds of doubt.

As to I'd give you the room No.: is not the same as giving you the room No. Blocking you from checking up on her.

As to the excuse that the plug was pulled to keep the kids from making calls: can't the kids be told touch the phone and I'll break your hands.

Something smells.

You had the wrong OM, OM2, WW is not where she says she is or with who she is with?

ITA. I don't like this YEG. It really smells.

Never even considered the possibility of another OM. Its certainly possible.

I can tell you nothing has come up on the KL. She didnt delete her old conversations from the OM. They are still there. Jokes about "poking" each other on FB. Made me sick.

Nothing I can do now about this trip. I'll have to be extra paranoid and snoop even more.

I have discussed the need for EP. I have told her what Im gonna expect. She hasnt decided to commit to the M yet. She just agreed not to talk or email OM.

Thats why im in PA and not injury recovery. Im treating this as an active affair. My PB is already planned out. Im ready to go FULL DARK when necessary. I still have a fairly good balance in the Love Bank so im going to continue to hold out. If I find contact though thats a pretty big negative. Im sticking to my 180 plan as well. It helps protect myself from these actions.

Im not getting gas lighted by these actions though. I agree with you there are some serious red flags.

I might have to consider bringing up EP earlier than I wanted. I wanted to use Steve Harley to introduce these for me. Might have to change that plan.

Probably going to make a strategy session with SH this next week. See what he thinks I need to do.

Thanks for the input guys. Wish I had made the drive now so I would know for sure. I might look for a local PI in Boone as well. Maybe I can hire him on a job by job basis. Dont really wanna drop another couple of Gs for another retainer.

First im not defending the actions here. Just stating why she said she did these things.


My child 4 years old. Her kids are 2 years and 9 months. They were with them there when I talked on the phone. I heard their voices and was confirmed with DD4 phone conversation.


Bleh got me there. That is classic WW misdirection. Should have insisted. I just would feel more comfortable if she would agree to give me this stuff.


She would say she wasnt alone. She was with her friend.

Things are taking a turn for the worse.

For weeks now ive been seeing us make progress ive thought. We have been spending time together. She has been showing me some affection. A few hugs here and there. The last week I worked a really good 180. met her needs without acting pathetic.

Today after I got back from my run she walked in the door. She showed me a dress she bought DD4.

I aksed her if we could talk. We hadnt tlaked about the relationship all week so she agreed. I asked her for the truth and she gave it to me.

I asked her if she is close to returning home and recommitting to the M.

She told me she was seriously considering moving out.

That was the opposite of all the indications she has been telling me. For weeks I have felt us getting closer. Taking very baby steps back to each other. Now she is running away again.

There may have been contact this weekend. She insists there wasnt but WW lie. She knows Ive promised the OM hell if he contacts her again.

I had just spoke to her father yesterday. She had been telling him that we were slowly trying to work things out. He was quite shocked with the lastest turn of events.

WW said that she sees how hard im trying. She says she is just so unhappy though still. I told her she had been in an A for 2 years now. We have only been trying a month. She said that the A didnt have anything to do with it (whatever). She just wants to be happy again. I wanted to just scream "Your unhappy because you have betrayed your entire family and yourself by falling in love and F&&&ing another man!" I didnt though.

I brought up the idea of talking to Steve. I told her our M deserved a full recovery effort. That I wanted her to move back in and fully commit to the MB recovery program. I asked her to please let me make an appointment for her with steve. All she would say is she will consider it.

After that I asked her if she is talking to God about our problems. She immediatly clamped up. I could tell I hit a raw nerve. All she said is, "Are you seriously asking me that?"

I knew the conversation was over so i took a shower. It was 100 degrees out today when i was running so I was soaked. She was in her office when I told her I was going to pick up DD4. She saw me and she just let loose with the tears. She was besides herself crying her eyes out. I got down and just held her. I held her in my arms and i told her I loved her. I told her everything is going to be alright. After crying about 4 minutes or so she told me to leave and pick up DD4.

I went immediatly to FIL house. I told him the latest turn of events. I told FIL exactly what she had said. Her FIL has condemned the A strongly. He has been my greatest ally and I hope he continues to be. He had been taking a passive role. Letting WW come to them for council. He said he is going to be more active. He also led me to believe he will be more active in the OM counter squad and find out exactly when he is transferring away. its supposed to be soon.

While this sucks Im not exactly surprised. I have been preparing to go to plan B for a while now. Everything is lined up. I just was hoping she would be the exception that didnt have to put herself through that pain.

Her FIL agreed that I should cut all support but whats legally required if she moves out. I told FIL it wasnt to punish her but give her a taste of what life would be like after the D.

It will be pretty gloomy for her. Im going a full dark pitch black plan B if she leaves. Everything is going away. Being she got fired from her job she has no income except what ive been providing. She will have to live in her Gmothers old house. Im sure FIL will pay for some utilities but she has a very expensive appitite. She has already burned through most of her 6 months of savings in just a month. She has significant credit card debt (about 10k I think). She also has a 400 dollar a month car payment. Not to mention that she will have to find money for her phone and health insurance.

I dont think she will be happy if she moves out. I feel downright scared for her honestly. Ive shielded her for years from the pains of money. She is about to get a taste of real life which I dont think will be very pleasant. I dont think OM will bail her out either. Especially if it risks his precious career. Hes also cheap always has been. Dont think hes going to wanna funnel money into someone he is going to be leaving in a few months. He loves her though so who knows.

PB will help me in my recovery at least. Ill be able to save tons since im not going to be spending close to the amount I was taking WW out and on vacations to try to show her the new improved me. Ill have more time to run and stuff. That will be good.

I need some support tonite. Its just really sad hearing that I just cant make her happy. I dont want to lose my wife. Im keeping it together but its really tough. Please someone offer some insight. Even if its just offering prayers thats appreciated too.


Im willing to just place this in Gods hands. If she leaves thats all I can do. My wife is worth this hell but the thought of investing all this effort just to fail is really hard.

Here are some examples of how over the place she is. She has talked to me about buying property with her in College town USA. She is talking about things she wants to do around the house. She was taking day trips with me to all over the state and saying how much fun she was having. Now i hear she is misrable and upset because she cant get happy.

I know you will get some real advice and support from the vets soon, but I wanted to say that I don't think it is as bad as you are thinking it is. I think she misses the OM. I think she knows she will likely never see him again and she is struggling terribly...looks to me like you just keep plan A'ing.. I think she burst out crying after telling you she is thinking of moving out because reality IS setting in. Saying she is 'thinking about moving out' and her actually moving out are two different things.

Hang on. I don't think hope is anywhere near gone.

Sorry to hear things got a bit rough.

If WW is truly NC and if OM is the person you describe I would expect a different behavior. This is a puzzle and perhaps you should consider a different approach.

If there is NC perhaps she is simply in deep withdrawal. Theat would explain everything------including the tears.

You know her better than all of us that have been following this thread. What is your gut telling you?

By reading your words I only see the following possibilities:

She is still in contact with OM.
She is in deep withdrawal.

Not sure about your so-called needy behavior. It does not sound like you are acting like that.


Have you asked her if she loves OM? Have you asked her if she is in withdrawal?

Being a WW is not easy because she has to give up OM and try to reconnect with you at the same time. This has to be a very difficult task.

I believe that some wayward folks are prone to be in la-la land and are dreamers. They tend to stay in Disneyland as long as they can.

I will pray for you.

God Bless!

My gut says she probably has had some contact with him. Not like before but I know she has at lest been on his facebook page.She hasnt been messaging him though. Her FIL has been asking her every night if she has been contacting him. WW tells him no. She tells me no as well.

If I could verify contact I would inform his command again. I cant find that though.


She no doubt is in love with him. Both the Om and I have been the 2 great love interests in her life. She has told him on facebook before I confronted him that WW loves OM. All kinds of sexual flirting.

When i asked her she always said she doesnt know and she is trying to figure that out. I have talked to her about withdrawals. She pretty much just ignored me.


Its not easy. She doesnt want to commit to either side and is fence sitting. She wont come home and let me meet all her needs. She wont completely swear off the OM. Its forced NC atm not NC by choice. She wont let me meet her greatest need (travel). Id love to schedule a cruise together. Thats tons of UA time. WW wont go. She is refusing to go on dates with me. Says they arent helping even though while on them she has a good time. She is just pretty much avoiding UA time.

She also lost her job at the same time I found out. Thats another reason for her to be unhappy. She is dealing with alot of stuff.

It will probably require PB to let her hit rock bottom. I just dont want to see her suffer but atm she is blaming me fo all her unhappiness. She is just not happy and she is married to me and its been bad for so long. SO therefore it MUST be me causing it. No way that the OM is causing it. No way that DD4 being upset because mommy wont stay with daddy anymore is it. The guilt from living a lie for years and lying constantly is the cause.

I think she knows deep down inside that what she is saying isnt true. She just isnt ready to do the things necessary to be happy yet.

What you are doing wrong:

You are trying to educate your WW.

You are doing relationship talks.

You are appearing weak and needy.

You are not letting WW have the time to let your changes register enough so she will feel confident that they are permanent.

You are allowing your WW the time to come out of withdrawal for the OM.

You need to sit tight. Plan A. After four weeks you can suggest lets call the Harleys to have them give us their opinion on where we are at. Just throw it out there, don't sell it, don't explain it, then just let it go for now.

Is your WW being transparent?

Then hold on to that and verify NC.

Your WW has been banging her OM for two years. Most likely it has been longer because WW's tend to minimized. This is why your WW is still pining for her OM. Withdrawal from an affair of this length takes time. WD can take up to six months.

WW villified you to justify her doing the OM. She now has to justify to herself that the OM is a POS for sleeping with a MW.

Not really. She equates my promise to continually inform his command every time he breaks NC as a threat. So she isnt contacting him. She sint being transparent though. She knows I am watching all the phone lines. She knows I have people watching his house. She knows I call and check up on her. When I do she gets upset though.


She claims she has only been sleeping with him for just over a year. She told me checked out of the M in august of 08. I call that the start of the EA/PA. In reality the EA began way before that im sure. Probably about 5 years ago off and on. Ir went supernova when our counciling attempts failed.

Im going to keep my PA going for a bit more. I thought about withdrawing away somewhat but I believe thats a bad way to go into PB. I want to be there one day showing her im giving it my all and just Poof when my PB date arrives.

Ive put off the divorce papers getting served. I believe I will use the papers getting served at the 60 day point from filing as an entry to PB. That will give her over 60 days of good PA time. She has noticed the changes. She sees how much im trying. She just is feeling unhappy constantly. Its like all my attempts to connect with her are just derailed.


I hope she comes to that conclusion. I fear that she will just never be happy again. She began being unhappy when she called the OM then went deep into a depression when she started the EA. She completely checked out when the PA started. There is a reason I KNEW when the EA/PA started. Its because I could see the changes. I hate seeing her in such pain. For all she did to me I want to just hold her and protect her. I dont want to put her through a PB scenario but im prepared to do it.

Im definatly making another appointment with steve this week. Maybe he can give me some hope. ATM im at my low point.

BTW quick update. Took DD4 to church today. WW asked me how I was doing. I said I was doing as good as I could. i also said God is helping me carry these burdens. THen I waslked away. When she was leaving she told meshe would call me on her way home. She is going with her MIL and FIL to a show today a state away. I told her ok and walked off.

Im trying to amp up the 180 actions while meeting needs.

Pros do you think I should give her my ENQ? Should I give her one to fill out?

I want to meet her needs but I dont want to misstep. I feel right now it would just fall on deaf ears.

I actually came here to talk about intimacy and how your not in sync with your W etc, but having read back only 2 pages...

I believe there is contact, and that your in a false recovery. Your WW is behaving EXACTLY like my H did. Look harder and deeper into places she can make contact. Really stretch yourself. I finally found the deep underground contact Flick and PQ were making was via pictures they joint bought and sold on 'owned' on facebook. You can message previous owners of the pictures and it's really hard to find as a snooping spouse.

Not only would I not bother giving her your ENQ which trust me, she will not take notice of. I believe you need to continue your plan A (expect nothing, be the better person, apply stick as required) until you NEED to go to plan B.

And remember, plan A is being a welcome home mat, not a door mat.

Im certainly not in a false recovery because we never even started to recover. Im treating it a an active affair. All I can say is that viewed every webpage she visited on my computer. There are no suspicious pages. I could call her friend but that would be a waste of time. She wouldnt give me a straight answer anyways.

I need to keep my expectations in check. Thats for sure. I really thought we were making progress. The only thing I know for sure is my wife is so lost and foggy. Maybe new pressure will help out some.

I finally confided in her uncle the preacher at church. He is giving me lots of guidance and said he will support me in a custody battle. He cant sway her like her parents can though so hes little help on the exposure front. His praying with me gives me comfort though. He was SHOCKED when I told him about the affair.

Hopefully there will be some sort of a breakthrough. Im about ready to go ballistic on his command. There was a small shot there last time. If I break that boundary Im going HUGE next time. Basically everyone on the AFB is gonna know about the A and the OM. Pictures, phone records, facebook pages, GPS reports. He is going to wish he was dead.

Thank you for responding Lildoggie. Its been a really tough weekend.

Try to stay cool and calm Yeg. I found these words from Nelson Mandela useful


It sums up the carrot of plan A for me, it's all about you giving without demanding.

listened to this about 20 times today

ok, then her weekend away was the contact point.

Oh, and dont bother about the ENQ because as said before, when your the BS, you're the enemy, for as long as the A goes on.

I agree with lil'doggie and would not try the questionaires just yet. Stay calm my man and pull the reigns in on those expectations. You have been working this program for about a month. Stay focused and stay consistent. Keep working 'your plan' and stay above the fray. Remember you are not dealing with your wife, you are dealing with the alien still.

About going ballistic on his command.....

I wouldn't go as far as publicly sharing the details and pictures. I would find his commander and his local IG (inspector general) office and explain the situation to them in a letter or phone call. I would tell the commander, and let the commander know that the IG office has also been notified. This will force him to take action and initiate an ivestigation. If you expose in some other public way so that "the whole AFB will know", you will come off as very vindictive and desparate. Keep it professional.

I know it's hard, but do something fun or nice for yourself today. Go see a movie. Get your head out of the situation at least for a little bit.