Well, LaLa, Mel is right. Openess and Honesty does not apply until a couple is in true recovery. W2S was right to seek help in a safe place for him.

I don't know what your problem is with Mel, but she only has your and W2S's marriage's best interests at heart.

Ren - can I bring your attention back to your personal recovery plan?

Have you found a face-to-face NA meeting? Have you found enough of them and AA meetings and any other 12 step meeting in your area so that you can work a 90 meeting in 90 day program? Have you found a sponsor?

See - W2S finding a support group isn't really your business at this point. Go back and read TST's feedback and MF and SMB and all of us who have taken time to help YOU.

You're not to a place of trust with W2S yet where POJA can apply. You have work to do.

So dry your tears. Dust off your humility and get to work. There's good inside you to discover and uncover under all that guilt and shame and pride.

YEP. If you were truly reading SAA with an open heart and mind than you would understand that your BH cannot and must not trust you yet. You have work to do to EARN that trust. So, essentially from this morning where you appeared to be humble and ready to work you progressed to having a tantrum over your BH getting help??

Thanks for showing us where you heart truly is at this point.

You know lala, seeing that you deleted all your posts I am fearful for your BH. I hope and pray he does not continue to conflict avoid with you and continues to get help here at MB despite your tantrums.

Oh come now, "Madame X"...Do you even realize just how totally and completely WAYWARD that little stunt shows you to be?

Yes, I'm here, I have been the whole time - I have purposely laid low and let others address you BECAUSE of how much I do like you, and because of how disappointed I am in you and how mad I am at myself that I didn't see this all along. I always thought you and I were so alike, and because of that I made too many assumptions that you were approaching recovery just as I had - I neglected to ask the right questions and took everything you said as truth based upon my own STUPID assumptions. LaLa, I feel HORRIBLE that I helped enable you to gaslight W2S - I believed you that HE was the stumbling block to recovery. I have apologized to him for that - Let me say that I am also very sorry to you...

I am posting to you now because I am FLOORED by this latest shenanigan of yours - I am MAD!!! You need to drop all this bullying of W2S this very instant - this is OVER-THE-TOP flat out RIDICULOUS!!! You are being CRUEL - I can't believe this of you!!! STOP IT!!!!!!

NO, HE MOST CERTAINLY DOES NOT OWE YOU ONE BIT OF OPENNESS AND HONESTY RIGHT NOW - KNOCK IT OFF, LALA!!!

*I* was there when W2S was being advised off of this board - I was one of the ones posting to him, and so were many others that you DO like and respect - NOTHING was said that had anything but the BEST in mind for you and your family...Instead of pitching fits and making demands, you should be GRATEFUL to those people for doing YOUR JOB by supporting YOUR HUSBAND when you sure as heck weren't!!!

You march yourself in to W2S right this minute and APOLOGIZE to him for putting him in a position to NEED HELP away from you - Do you think it felt good for him to need that? Do you think that he was jumping for joy about it? C'MON!!! Tell him that you are SO SORRY that you have forced his hand and not been there for him to be open and honest with as a spouse should be...LaLa, YOU put him right smack dab in the middle of this emotional crap storm, so if you are enraged, be sure to take it out on the right person - YOURSELF - This is YOURS to own...

Now, settle yourself down and get humble - double time...

Mrs. W

And may I also say, having not seen anything before all the

appeared

That it seems to me that you somehow think smoking dope is/was the only problem that needed addressing?

You want hero cookies for giving up dope 2 months ago?????

You think THAT is the only issue in your marriage? Really????

OMG! HOW DARE W2S ATTEMPT TO GET HELP TO SAVE HIS WIFE FROM SELF-DESTRUCTION AND HIS FAMILY FROM UTTER DESTRUCTION!

You revealed your true heart with your "X".

You didn't get what you wanted from the board this time 'round, so you cut and run.

"X" -- it's so immature it's funny -- except it's not -- because you're a wife and mom willing to blow them all up to keep your pride.

Lala, your children need you to drop your pride and entitlement.

You said earlier you were ready to save your family.

So what's up with the "X" then?

Were you just trying to con me?

Also, I would make this a church that has congregational singing instead of performance singing. Then you will still get to sing, next to your husband, in the pew. But you won't have an opportunity to join the choir or praise team or whatever.

Wow. I really disagree with this.

While I understand that Lala's solo singing in a studio could trigger her H, singing in a church choir is much different. Furthermore, if she had something healthy that brings her joy - like singing - it will be incentive for her to stay away from smoking. Smoking is terrible for your voice. Want2stay could come to choir practice - or join.

I'm sure that many will disagree with me, but I think that for Lala to give up singing altogether was a bad idea, one that fostered a ton of resentment on her part. Singing in a church choir seems like an excellent idea to me. Why not ask the Harleys what they think of the idea?

pk

LaLa, What's up with the tantrums?

You MUST get control over these angry outbursts!

These AO's are what has hindered any recovery from going forward from the get go.

AO's are like driving a car and using nothing but the horn..... ya wind up in and out of the ditch again and again, all the while blowing your horn at all those self-preceived crazy drivers. Get in your own traffic lane and grab a hold of the steering wheel please.

You might even want to consider stopping the car long enough to see if you are possibly going the wrong way on a one way street.

Dr. Harley's very first marriage he counseled involved an affair with a church choir director.

I'm not condemning church choirs; I just think any situation where Lala sets herself up for admiration for her singing could be a problem.

Regarding the singing...

LaLa had big dreams of making it as a recording artist - W2S supported that dream and for their 10 year anniversary he bought her studio time to record an album - her affair was with the "producer" of said album...It is no wonder that her singing is a giant trigger for him...Her very own choices landed her where she is regarding her singing, so if she resents anyone, it should only be HERSELF...

Further, we all make choices in life about what we want - LaLa chose to get married and have children - that very naturally put her dreams of stardom on the back burner - let's not forget that was HER CHOICE though...I've heard LaLa sing - she IS very talented, but just having a beautiful voice does not guarantee stardom - there are a lot of blood, sweat and tears that go along with a dream that big - to be honest with you I think that W2S makes a convenient scapegoat for LaLa's not choosing to pursue that dream: ala - "I never made it to the bigtime because of YOU!!! Certainly NOT because of my own lack of perseverance and drive - MY CHOICES are YOUR FAULT!!!"

Mrs. W

Mrs. W, I see a world of difference between singing in a church choir vs pursuing stardom as a recording artist and making an album in a studio. One is a realistic healthy way of pursuing an interest in a communal setting - the other is much more self-involved.


I see. So, does this mean that all FWSs should never sing in a church choir? Or is choir practice verboten for only singing FWSs? Or should church itself should be off-limits? IOW, I think the experience of the adulterous choir member is way off the point here.

pk

Since her singing publicly causes her spouse pain (for incredibly obvious reasons), she should not be singing publicly.

I could argue about her filling her lovebank with admiration from others when she sings, too, but the first sentence is enough reason for her to never sing publicly again. If her BH becomes enthusiastic about it in the future, they could open the discussion (at HIS prompting!) I'm sure that's a long, long way off, if ever. Right now, he's still in triage.

I understand PK...The problem is though that LaLa's singing triggers W2S IMMENSELY ~ It is her lack of WILLINGNESS to accept what her actions wrought that is killing this potential recovery ~ As SMB reported, tst now participates in an activity that used to trigger her - It was his attitude and willingness to do whatever it took for as long as it took that made the difference...

Mrs. W

There may not be a difference though, if the appeal is admiration. The problem would be the same in church if that is the case. And we all know that affairs happen just as easily in church as anywhere else, unfortunately.

So, this may well be a matter of eliminating an environment that led to her affair. If that is the case, then it needs to go no matter what.

If it is a matter of only triggering him, then it might be eliminated now and addressed in the future. But for now, we know it does trigger him so it has to go.

Also, if she "resents" giving up something that hurts her husband immensely, that speaks to an attitude that is not serious about putting the recovery of her marriage first.